What do we think. How rubbish were England??
Awful is not strong enough, but stand back and think from last nights fringe players getting an outing, what sort of team we could field if we were at strength.
I propose that a back 3 of Terry, Woodgate and Rio-the-camel-face, with Richards attacking down the right and Cole doing the same on the left, with Rooney and Lennon up front and a midfield of Lampard, Joe Cole and Gerrard has the makings of a hell of a team.
imagine the bench too. Carrick, Owen, Hargreaves, Wright-Phillips, Crouch and so many others.
All we would need then is a managaer who can inspire them.
What say the panel?

Like the sound of your team Alan - only change I would suggest would be Ashley Young for Joe Cole. Then I would make them play 2,3,5 with Woodgate and Rio at full back,Richards (who loooks very useful) Terry and A Cole in the middle and Lennon, Gerrard,Rooney, Lampard and Young up front. Gerrard/Lampard would have to work bloody hard back and forth, but primarily in attack and trust our defenders to get the ball and move it quickly forward. Might put the wind up a few sides - and much better to watch than the bore of last night.

I keep hearing Alan Hansen (who was a fairly useful defender) saying how pace terrifies defenders and we are blessed with increadible pace up front and in midfield, through Rooney, Wright-Philips, Lennon and Richards. Fantastic vision through the middle and out wide with gerrard, Cole, Lampard.
I was very lucky to see Woodgate and Ferdinand play together at Leeds and it was obvious then that they were top drawer together, but add Terry to them and you have a defence that need fear no-one.
Ashley cole given free reign on the left and richards (who terrified me and I wasn't playing) down the right and the team looks like a world beater, and very entertaining.
I just think the manager has a boring streak in him which will lead to boring 1-0 and 0-0 matches.
alan

Its time Mclaren resigned before its too late.

The chap to say the least is a bit thick. As soon as I saw his selections I knew we were onto a loser. Bringing Phil Nevile back at left back, I ask you. The bloke cant use his left foot and all evening he looked way out of it.

One man up front and that being Crouche. To me the lads not international class, ok as a shock tactic in the last 15 mins of a game but sorry not for me.

Its about time a England manager went back to basics last employed by Alf Ramsey and played the best available player at anyone position. All this changing of the system just doesnt work.

Get a full England 11 decide on the system and then use it game after game and bring in fresh men for injured ones.

Mclaren said he would use players where they play for their league teams, he just hasnt done that. We wont qualify for the finals and I predict Venables will take over, the only problem being venables looks also to be past his sell by date.

Ps, lampard and gerrard obviously cant play in the same team, we need pace in midfield which was evident during the World Cup.

Lennon is a must on the right, gerrard in the middle with hargreaves, and either Dyer or J Cole on the left, Rooney and Defoe up front. Id also bring Richards in at right back and would hope to bring Walcot into the team as some point in the next 12 months.

God help us.

The modern game, gf. Its all about pace, and we have it. I agree that P neville is about Sunday league standard and G Neville is way past it.
I don't think McLaren has worked that much out yet and is possibly a bit too close to the old (and failed) guard. Venebles is too.
Give me Big Sam anyday. Put out the best 11 and play to score goals.
Pace and skill are there in the team, but not in the management.
All the top teams have pace on their side and yet we seem determined to use those with tired old joints.
I forgot all about Walcott, but imagine being a defender trying to work out who the hell to mark with Walcott, Lennon and Rooney bearing dowm on you and Lampard, Cole and Gerrard waiting to pick up the scraps. Never mind Terry and Ferdinand getting up there if you don't clear quickly enough. They would be almost unplayable!!!

Carrick played like the shit united scum bag he is and McLaren showed his true colours - How could the FA hire such an inept manager?

Told you Micah is incredible, England captain in 5 years.
My team;

Goalie - No one is good enough to play for England
Ashely, Micah, JT, Rio/The Gate
Joey Cole, Stevie G, Frankie, Lennon/SWP
Wayne and Defoe/Daniel Sturridge.

I like that one GDP nobody is good enough for goalkeeper.

I agree and sadly I think come just a few years down the track we may get the same with other positions.

Im afraid no matter how colourfull and exciting it is to have all these foreign players in our league ultimately the International team will suffer and there are signs already of this eg, lack of cover for strikers.

Cricket whent the same way going back and then legislation was brought in and countys could only play I think one overseas player per game, it took a long time to recover discounting the present miserable tour.

We have to sit down around the table and decide once and for all what comes first either the National team or the National league.

My England team would be, BANKS, COHEN, WILSON, J CHARLTON, STYLES, MOORE, BALL, HURST, PETERS, R CHARLTON, HUNT. If they can't win the world cup, then nobody can.

Slater I agree with you for once pretty much on everything.

I disagree G Neville is past it, I still think he's one of the best and fittest full backs in the country, though Micah is the future.
P Neville is and never has been a full back, he plays centre mid for Everton and thats where he's best.

Lampard is the form player at the moment out of the central two.

GD Potts your obviously a typical bitter blue, how the hell can you suggest Daniel Sturrudge up front when he can't even catch upfront for the most impotent team in the Premiership?

McClaren never would have got the job had it not been for two very lucky cup results that coincided with Scolari turning down the job.
O'Neil for me, way ahead of anyone else, unless Scolari changes his mind.......

erm .... , it was only a meaningless friendly.

but i do like picking teams.

mine would be

foster,
g neville, woodgate, terry, a cole
gerrard, carrick, hargreaves, bridge
rooney, walcott

subs bench, (which, if you think about it, has become just as vital as the starting 11),

robinson,
richards, ferdinand, campbell, downing
lennon, , lampard, scholes, j cole
young, owen

Meaningless friendly?? Yes.
But if you are gonna put on that kind of shite, do it on the training pitch away from paying viewers. It was awful and whatever McLaren learned better have been worth it.
Lets see a bit of passion from the squad. Does anyone think Wenger / Ferguson / Jose would accept such low standards, even in a friendly?? I don't.
Get the team right and play it every time. Stop fiddling and get a team spirit going.

BTW, Bos. that midfield looks a bit plodding and defensive for my tastes. You been working with McLaren recently??
;-)
Alan

plodding!!!! ? defensive !!!? nay lad. the pace is upfront and on the flanks where it should be. the two lads in the middle can tackle, run and pass all day long. i'm particularly impressed with me subs bench; lots of quality and ability. feckin' easy this international manager lark, innit . don't know why they always say it's a hard job. i'll be telling macca that next time he calls me up for a chat about tactics ;)

Bring back the "grasscutter" Ray Wilkins!!

I thoroughly enjoyed every minute.

:-)

Dil: what was the result against Ireland (rugby, I mean)!

My suggestion is that we play a Premiership team which would include the so-called 'foreigners'! In other words, when you join a league you play for that country. Its difficult to even get a full 11 English out of the top four sides so players are not used to playing in a quality team.

Mind it would be worthwhile to pick Steve Taylor, Scott Parker, Milner and Dyer - we could also smuggle in Oba Martins. Now, where does he come from and - where do I come from?

At the end of the day McClaren is clueless but the resources he has at his disposal arent exactly amazing

GK - cant remember Eng having such a dearth of keepers, big part of the problem is how few English keepers are good enough to get a regular game in the prem

Fullbacks - Neville been a decent pro for years and Richards looks promising, Cole heavily over-rated imo tho Bridge decent enough cover, yet McClaren picks a guy who's played central midfield for the last few years rather than have a look at other options

Centre halfs - the one position where we have plenty of decent options yet McClaren still manages to bring Carragher on!!!

Midfield - an area where too many of the current players are over rated and England havent picked a balanced midfield for many a year. How many times do we need to see Lampard and Gerrard together to know it doesnt work. Both rely on a holding midfielder (or 2 in Lumpalards case at prem level) and looking woefully exposed without them

Strikers - Rooney the only one good enough a lot of very poor options otherwise, a lot of who cant get regular games in the prem (Crouch rotated by Lpool, Defoe in and out of Spurs side, Walcott? do me a favour - hes had a shocking 6 months and cant get in Arsenal team (yes im an arsenal fan), Young (the next over rated youngster whos proven nothing to get a massive transfer fee)

Ps i backed Spain last night :-)

Smug git ;-)
I think we have talent in abundance (keepers aside), but a serious lack of imagination. we always play with such rigid formations. Where are the attacking midfield runs, the centre halfs bringing it forward, the full backs who don't get a nose bleed when they have a shooting chance and the strikers who are not afraid to come back for the ball and create the space for the midfield or wingers to run into?
They are all there, but stifled badly by the strange notion that they have an area of the field to patrol and should not stray. Predictable and easy to defend against. A more fluid approach would bring out the best in some world class talent and surely a friendly is just the place to give them their head and let them play as they would like.
Just my opinion, but what a bloody shambles last night was.
Alan

Bosley - BRIDGE! Thats all I can say about that team.

Andy - 'Catch Upfront'? didnt quite get that one, if you mean play regularly then probably the fact that he's only just 17 and Pearce feels to embarassed not to play his 6million horse upfront (Samaras).
Now Andy, in 1 year he'll be running rings round neville on his wheelchair and powering it past that old boy in goal - maybe even the next derby.
But at least I can say we didnt waste as much as you on shit players like carrick, how he makes the england squad I dont know. He, when we are 1 nil down, stands in front of the 2 centre back and passes it around with them for as long as possible before attempting a pass above his skill level which subsequently finds the touch line. If we insist on playing the tosser that is G neville at Right back then play Micah where carrick plays, he's far stronger, quicker, has a better head and shot and could be far more useful. (Especially since he used to play there).
In one year you'll be admiring the talent of Daniel Sutrridge as the new England strike partner for Rooney, after all, Chelsea thought so much and tried to buy him this summer.

EW ... difference was even though we lost we went down fighting and the game was enjoyable for both sets of fans and neutrals ... we therefore did not feel the need to boo the team off the pitch :-)

Dil really - that game was not exciting and we were outclassed by Spain completely, although we were carrying a disability with us throuhg the likes of carrick and the neville's.

Think the boo's could have been more directed at Mclaren reather than the teams.

I was referring to EW's post re the Wales V Ireland rugby match GD , sorry for the confusion.

gd, i believe the new supercasino is going to be built next to the city of manchester stadium. the new casino will have all the usual games, slot machines, roulette, blackjack, poker, but the crap games will still be played next door ;)

Forget the football....what about this cricket match, it's a cracker Australia 252 England 218-4 with 31 balls to go!

Oh dear, I should have kept quiet! Flintoff has gone, 222-5, 27 balls left, it's not over yet though.

239-6, 14 req'd off 13 balls. Can it be done?

I've got my nappy on now. 245-6, 8 req'd off 8

4 req'd off 7. Collingwood for Prime Minister

Nappy now full, 1 req'd off 4

Unbelievable, an England win. That's it then, back to the football............replace the England squad with the Cricket squad, real fighters?!

They let them win .... got to sell tickets for 2 more.

Bosley, well at least your jokes are better than your team selection. city could beat them.

Now- weve got the second best stadium in the premiership and the new casino along with the plan for a new hotel will make city a massive investment opportunity for... maybe Mittal or the eventually released Khodorkovsky ha.

Oh, and I almost forgot, hows your Stanelco holding doing?

Kim Really enjoyed your commentary - after the event that is. What it demonstrates is how England are at rising from the ashes - or loss of them! Proves my point about the importance of Northumbrians, fighting spirit etc. You know, the Alan Shearer, Jackie Milburn thing. Dil and I share this celtic (not Celtic) Wales, Geordie thing. Newcastle have even been blooding Academy players successfully.

Apart from the selection horror of Phil Neville at left back the final nail in McLaren's coffin, from my viewpoint, was the paucity of the attcking play with long balls, third dividion style, into Crouch. I recalled the Hansen analysis of Manchester United last weekend - the movement off the ball of Giggs and Rooney being a good example. I suspect we are getting the lowest common denominator of McLaren and Venables.

But, just maybe, we could rise from the Ashes like our cricket 2nd eleven!

Eric

gd, that went last march :)
glad you like the joke. it was a bitter blue who told it to me.

DIL ..lol ....lf Manchester city are so good why does their only decent player in Barton J. want to leave. As for England ,,lol How i enjoy these little, yet regular, moments. Boring ,,,zzzzzzzz, utterly predictable, tedious,mechanical, and thouroughly bereft of imagination, guile and inspiration and PASSION which in the final analysis begs the question how did such a cretin as Mclaren get the job to start with . ? The mind boggles; and leaves me with that comforting feeling that France will utterly rip them to shreds . .Anyway i fell asleep at half time ..Without Gerrard, Terry and Rooney and perhaps Ferdinand ( and he is no Vierra in his day ) they are aS Eric says says a very ordinary mundane side aka Division 2 what WITH WITH ROUTE 1 FOOTBALL THEY PLAY ; and as for disposing of Beckham yet playing those pensioners as the Nevilles lol and Carrick and aww the list is endless. ....lol hehehe lol ...Does Carrick know how to pass a ball ?? An utter pedestrian and pure observer ..lncidentally they could start by dropping Lampard - his old man was better - and allow Gerrard to introduce a little space & fluidity into central midfield .,,,,No goalkeeper in England is worthy of the shirt ...They play like scared rabbits ...UTTERLY dire ...but makes my day ....hehe ..and illustrates why since the Premiership was formed juste why only l English born manager has guided his side to glory..........20 million Stanelco shares for he who even remembers ......lol ........ln a word England are LIMITED ..........@+ J

Dreadful agreeing with the French Connection but I take his comments as constructive. Fine playing one or two older players but they need to offer something different from the young. An argument for Gary Neville but why not run with Micah Richards. I thought McC's best selection was Foster - we can bypass a generation perhaps - we can groom him for the benefit of Man U! We are agreed on the disastrous adoption of Route 1 to Crouch. From the sounds of it the Under 21s performed well to recover to 2-2 and they have qualified for the European Finals. I am serious in suggesting players like Steven Taylor and Milner who have done a great job for N'cle, stricken with far heavier injury list than moaning Chelsea. Glenn Roeder makes a virtue out of necessity and has been blooding players from the Academy, doing a service to the English game in general. Scott Parker would be far better than Carrick in the holding role besides contributing more in attack with some goals. Play Dyer in his Newcastle role off Rooney (instead of Martins). Lookign forward to see how Martins and Owen combine - not a lot of height but you can bring the central defenders forward for set pieces. Walcott should be a super-sub. Hey, I am moving towards a French set-up!

Eric

You have the players ,,BUT in Mclaren you have a frightened, visionless unimaginative, git ,,Evr since middlesboro were murdered in Uefa cup by Saville in what was more like an England cricket score hes frightened to make drastic change,,and in him i juste see more of the same great underachievement England have produced this past 20 years. ..Also in friendlies France are not scared to play under 21's and 18's and in fact use them to accustomise them to the world stage ( and sharpen their violence as recent events showed at stade du P. ( and actually thats because half of the first team refuse to play in friendlies lest of injury threatening their grossly overpaid club contracts .- arrogant gits ..l hate that attitude.......Dont get me wrong here because France are FAR from perfect ...aww i am still in denial over us losing in World cup final and Drs say i may never recover.......but at least in losing we let the opponents ankles know we have visited ....lts called the WIN AT ALL COSTS mentality . Something England sadly lack...dit il en sourraint ..;lol........Right im off out for 16 pints of lager and a Vinderloo...hmmm thearby begging question of whether i am moving toward the "Engliash set up.. i,,Til your next defeat this is Alpha X ray Charlie wishing all a good saturday night .........bien aficalment ..@+..J..

Trouble is, fellows. il est sur la balle. McLaren is a non-starter; pathetique. The only person to speak in his defence has been Alex Ferguson and why would that be: (a) he's a scot and loves to see les anglais hammered; (b) he is his protege (can't do the accents!) and its a pride thing. Better to go for Southgate; you feel more confident with Boro under his tutelage (again missing the accent). Pearce has chance to prove himself and you have to hand it to Roeder for the cup run (and he won the Inter-Toto!). Curbishley has landed himself in a quagmire and its difficult to rate Pardue. O'Neill has hardly impressed at Villa although he is a nice man. Who else is there?

Who else but Dario Gradi MBE (Hon D Tech) the most talented, longest serving manager with more insight in his little finger than the rest put together. He would not accept the job unfortunately as he is more interesting in building players than National sides!

Nobody has mentioned Steve Copple. Doing a fine job at Reading. I suppose he has the Keegan blotch on his record when he walked out on Palace.

bring howard wilkinson back !! well, if you're gonna play long ball you might as well do it properly ;)

i think too much is being made of it. it was a meaningless friendly. the only people pleased will be the regular players who are now feeling comfortable knowing that their places arn't under threat.

I know nowt about football (I'm a Leeds fan after all) but the team and tactics were very "retro" and I thought friendlies were all about experimenting and challanging the old ways of thinking. A unique opportunity to do it differently. After all. If you do what you always did - you will get what you always got. Therefore an opportunity wasted.
If we ever play a pygmy nation then Crouch should start. Other than that he'll make a good ball boy, one day.
Fill it with pace and fluidity. Make the opposition play deep, not knowing where the next threat is coming from and keep it to feet. We are making the game look like headball and in these days of football becoming a non-contact sport all we do is offer free kicks to the opposition all the time.
alan

alan, i agree with you about what should happen in friendlies. unfortunately, at this point in the season, the players wont be giving it 100% because it's a crucial time for their clubs. titles are getting closer to being won and lost, the champion's league begins again very soon and managers will be telling their players to make sure they don't come back injured. it was a pointless game and should never have been played. you onyl have to listen to a few interviews with the players after the match to realise that nobody gave a shit.

In looking at future England managers, don't overlook Aidy Boothroyd.Got the Hornets promotion last year when they were favourites for relegation at the start of the season. OK, not set the Premiership alight, but realises what he has (or has not) presently got to work with and also aware that better to accumulate some cash this time around and make more serious attempt at staying up next time around. Determined and shows lots of common sense, a characteristic which is sadly lacking in so many areas today.

Hewittalan - Who is the grass then ?

Wish I knew, FV. If I did know I would be selling it to Fleet Street not putting it on here!!
Can't see the issue, myself. They are all crap so which paticular talentless prick plays where seems irrelevant to me...................

A bit depressed after a win aren't we ?

Serious Q - Will Leeds survive, and how are Dennis/Poyet geeting on ? and what do the leeds fans think having Chelsea boys on board (inc Santa at the helm)

Not massively impressed with either KB or DW. Should have been a dream team, but fans are wondering how DW is still in a job after the results he's got.
I think Leeds will survive, albeit by the skin of their teeth. Its astonishing that the run of results for Southend, Barnsley, Hull et al has meant that 6 points from 6 saw us move from 2nd bottom to bottom!! I don't think that can continue and it is starting to look very bunched for the bottom 6, so there is hope.
I just cannot believe how quickly Leeds have gone from a side playing at the Nou Camp and winning in the San Siro to staring relegation to theird tier.
It is a frightenting lesson for all the other big clubs. Even when you are feared throughout Europe and fielding a team of world class players, be careful how you spend. It can be gone so quickly.
Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Chelsea etc. take note.................

I'd give Dennis some time, although as a CFC fan was extremely surprised he joined you. Am abivalent about whether you drop or not . In one sense it's a shame we're not having our 2 match rivalry each year, and in all honesty playing Fulham, Wigan or Watford doesn't really excite much.

I'd also suggest that Leeds pushed the spending to the limit - all the clubs you quote (and mine) do have foundations in place. For the Mancs, pool and us, its wealthy benefactors, for Newcastle its a large fan base, and controlled spending. Leeds sold their ground (I believe) and then hocked the future, with a naieve manager who whilst spending a fortune, span the myth that he had built a home grown team. If only someone in the boardroom had the guts to stand up to your Chairman perhaps you wouldn't be where you are. That to me is where Ken will kick some sense back into your club.

Agree FV. The key is the fan base. Leeds have that and it would be safe to say that ten years from now they will be back to the Top 6 (in Premiership that is). They are still paying for spending money that they did not have. The other key thing is the wage bill: Manchester and Newcastle United's have kept their ratio at around 50%. But remember that Newcastle were hovering in the then First Division relegation zone until Keegan joined. People love to jeer at Keegan because he is seen as having lost the Title - in fact, if you look at the results, Man U won it with a fantastic run of results; Newcastle had two critical thrillers with Liverpool and Balckburn, both of which they lost 4-3. OK, better to have won 1-0, but that was the downside of Keegan. Don't know whether Wise can turn it round but someone will. As for Coppell, he has done brilliantly at Reading and you see parallels to O'Neill's performance at Wycombe. Best not to rush into it.

Eric