| Home | Log In | Register | Our Services | My Account | Contact | Help |
You are NOT currently logged in
Register now or login to post to this thread.
cynic
- 25 Apr 2011 07:53
this important referendum is nearly upon us and i thought it would be interesting explore the views held by this BB
after much thought, i have decided to vote against AV
i do not dispute that "first past post the post" is in some ways unfair - so is life and golf! - but i am far from convinced that AV is intrinsically much better
i would rather have a stronger gov't of some hue than a weak coalition or mps (and parties) who have felt obliged to trim their sails to offend the least number and thus gain a few more secondary votes
full-blown PR is at least "fair", but even then, there are many examples of horribly weak and unstable gov'ts, which is also pretty disastrous
finally, and of greatest concern, i suspect the turnout for this referendum will be +/-35% at best and probably a lot lower in many parts of the country
it follows that those who vote in this will be (relative) "activists" for lack of a better word, for the run-of-the-mill voter will find the whole thing too complicated and voting on it all, too much of a fag
thus, if there is a change in our voting system, then it is very likely to have been pushed through by <20% of the electorate - is that fair?
after much thought, i have decided to vote against AV
i do not dispute that "first past post the post" is in some ways unfair - so is life and golf! - but i am far from convinced that AV is intrinsically much better
i would rather have a stronger gov't of some hue than a weak coalition or mps (and parties) who have felt obliged to trim their sails to offend the least number and thus gain a few more secondary votes
full-blown PR is at least "fair", but even then, there are many examples of horribly weak and unstable gov'ts, which is also pretty disastrous
finally, and of greatest concern, i suspect the turnout for this referendum will be +/-35% at best and probably a lot lower in many parts of the country
it follows that those who vote in this will be (relative) "activists" for lack of a better word, for the run-of-the-mill voter will find the whole thing too complicated and voting on it all, too much of a fag
thus, if there is a change in our voting system, then it is very likely to have been pushed through by <20% of the electorate - is that fair?
Toya
- 25 Apr 2011 08:04
- 2 of 178
It's not 'fair' if pushed through by <20% - but then, as you yourself state Cynic: neither is life nor golf!
I do feel that the present system isn't entirely representative of the population as a whole, when you look at the number of people eligible to vote for 1 parliamentary seat in one area compared with another. However, I don't believe that the suggested AV really addresses this in the way that I had hoped.
That said, it doesn't really concern me as I can't vote in any case, being a non-Brit citizen!
I do feel that the present system isn't entirely representative of the population as a whole, when you look at the number of people eligible to vote for 1 parliamentary seat in one area compared with another. However, I don't believe that the suggested AV really addresses this in the way that I had hoped.
That said, it doesn't really concern me as I can't vote in any case, being a non-Brit citizen!
cynic
- 25 Apr 2011 08:18
- 3 of 178
had you been, which way would you have voted? ...... off to play golf with peter shortly (all very unfair yet again!)
Toya
- 25 Apr 2011 08:41
- 4 of 178
I think I'd be voting against, as it's too complicated and could allow some very strange combinations of conflicting views and agendas within the one government - not a great start for trying to get anything done, nor for providing any sort of stability.
Be kind to Peter!
Be kind to Peter!
ExecLine
- 25 Apr 2011 09:31
- 5 of 178
With AV in place you'd merely end up having the worstiest votes electing the worstiest people. Simples.
We'd signed up for 'postal voting' in our house, so we got to actually do our vote for or against AV.
The way the question was asked on the voting slip was not good, IMHO.
I didn't keep a copy of it, but the way the question went was somewhat along the lines of:
At present, the UK uses the first past the post system to elect MPs to the House of Commons. Should the alternative vote system be used instead?
Then you had to tick either 'Yes' or No'.
IMHO this was a maybe little bit mindset manipulating. Nowhere in the voting paperwork packet did it explain what AV was. Neither did it ask the voter if he/she understood it or how AV voting might affect the outcome of elections.
I really do think it takes the voters' poorest quality votes to elect the poorest quality candidates.
Anyhow, I won't tell you how I voted, because it's 'private'. ;-)
However, do say NO2AV
We'd signed up for 'postal voting' in our house, so we got to actually do our vote for or against AV.
The way the question was asked on the voting slip was not good, IMHO.
I didn't keep a copy of it, but the way the question went was somewhat along the lines of:
At present, the UK uses the first past the post system to elect MPs to the House of Commons. Should the alternative vote system be used instead?
Then you had to tick either 'Yes' or No'.
IMHO this was a maybe little bit mindset manipulating. Nowhere in the voting paperwork packet did it explain what AV was. Neither did it ask the voter if he/she understood it or how AV voting might affect the outcome of elections.
I really do think it takes the voters' poorest quality votes to elect the poorest quality candidates.
Anyhow, I won't tell you how I voted, because it's 'private'. ;-)
However, do say NO2AV
Fred1new
- 25 Apr 2011 10:31
- 6 of 178
Little i,
"i would rather have a stronger gov't of some hue than a weak coalition or mps (and parties) who have felt obliged to trim their sails to offend the least number and thus gain a few more secondary votes"
Yes, I like strong government.
Bring back Stalin, Gaddafi (if he goes), Putin, Mubarak, Assad (when he is disposed.
Likening, a political election to "government", or a "committee" to a race or a game, is making a poor simile.
In a way, the first past the "post" in a race, is an attempt to judge who was best at that moment, in that event, at that moment. Similar would apply to team games.
Electing a "representative" of a "group" is hoping that the person elected will represent the consensus of the group.
It seems to me that AV is an attempt elect a candidate who is more likely to represent of the general "wishes" of a group. If this is so, the "elected" body's decision would be more representative of the group.
Proportional representation for General Election would appear to offer the public a better representation of the "political" wing of the public as a whole.
But in order to save the "coalition" the Liberals did not stick out for the latter and the "elitists" in the tory party would not have permitted Cameron, even if he though it appropriate, to agree to it.
All the systems are open to abuse and manipulation.
If you have a large family meeting try the different systems for a short period.
Quite amusing.
============
The tories are seen by many of the public as anti AV and the public may wish to give a early bloody nose to Cameron.
===============
Interesting to watch and see the outcome.
(Edited)
"i would rather have a stronger gov't of some hue than a weak coalition or mps (and parties) who have felt obliged to trim their sails to offend the least number and thus gain a few more secondary votes"
Yes, I like strong government.
Bring back Stalin, Gaddafi (if he goes), Putin, Mubarak, Assad (when he is disposed.
Likening, a political election to "government", or a "committee" to a race or a game, is making a poor simile.
In a way, the first past the "post" in a race, is an attempt to judge who was best at that moment, in that event, at that moment. Similar would apply to team games.
Electing a "representative" of a "group" is hoping that the person elected will represent the consensus of the group.
It seems to me that AV is an attempt elect a candidate who is more likely to represent of the general "wishes" of a group. If this is so, the "elected" body's decision would be more representative of the group.
Proportional representation for General Election would appear to offer the public a better representation of the "political" wing of the public as a whole.
But in order to save the "coalition" the Liberals did not stick out for the latter and the "elitists" in the tory party would not have permitted Cameron, even if he though it appropriate, to agree to it.
All the systems are open to abuse and manipulation.
If you have a large family meeting try the different systems for a short period.
Quite amusing.
============
The tories are seen by many of the public as anti AV and the public may wish to give a early bloody nose to Cameron.
===============
Interesting to watch and see the outcome.
(Edited)
cynic
- 25 Apr 2011 15:22
- 7 of 178
fred - you do not answer the key issue .... will you vote for or against AV? .... guess you won't say, under the pretence/pretext that it's private .... hope the fence pickets are sharp
halifax - 25 Apr 2011 16:33 - 8 of 178
the only sensible solution is to make voting compulsory then you would get a true representation of the wish of the electorate,postal votes for all and/or allow online voting.
Fred1new
- 25 Apr 2011 16:50
- 9 of 178
Cynic,
I am probably going to be annoying the French around the Dordogne and Brittany with my tank at the time of the vote. But I would probably vote Yes, for AV, but would prefer a PR system.
----------
Be careful that there aren't splinters in your bicycle seat, as I don't think there would be many offers to remove them for you.
I am probably going to be annoying the French around the Dordogne and Brittany with my tank at the time of the vote. But I would probably vote Yes, for AV, but would prefer a PR system.
----------
Be careful that there aren't splinters in your bicycle seat, as I don't think there would be many offers to remove them for you.
cynic
- 25 Apr 2011 16:56
- 10 of 178
hali - can't disagree and it is certainly an offense not to vote in Oz .... for all that, what is your view on AV and the fact that voting is not obligatory in uk nor likely to be made so
PR
i suspect i would be inclined to vote for PR, but i don't really see AV as a true step in that direction .... i am certainly very suspicious of what pandora's box may reveal if AV is allowed through especially on only +/-20% of the electorate voting in favour (and few less against same)
PR
i suspect i would be inclined to vote for PR, but i don't really see AV as a true step in that direction .... i am certainly very suspicious of what pandora's box may reveal if AV is allowed through especially on only +/-20% of the electorate voting in favour (and few less against same)
TANKER - 25 Apr 2011 18:01 - 11 of 178
vote NO
cynic
- 25 Apr 2011 18:25
- 12 of 178
because?
ptholden
- 25 Apr 2011 21:12
- 13 of 178
As discussed today, I'll be voting against:
1. I never expect to be in a position where I am undecided as to how I should cast my vote. In fact I would never even use a second preference. If my first choice is not the popular option, so be it, I lose.
2. I could never vote for a system where the most popular choice doesn't come first.
1. I never expect to be in a position where I am undecided as to how I should cast my vote. In fact I would never even use a second preference. If my first choice is not the popular option, so be it, I lose.
2. I could never vote for a system where the most popular choice doesn't come first.
SEADOG
- 26 Apr 2011 07:46
- 14 of 178
A definite NO from this warhorse cynic as I have never voted for a second best SD
TANKER - 26 Apr 2011 07:59 - 15 of 178
CYNIC . will a yes vote give us enough vote if we have no clear winning party if not then it better to have first passed the post . one vote i would never vote lib they are a bunch of nutters .
TANKER - 26 Apr 2011 08:00 - 16 of 178
and vince cable as proven that
cynic
- 26 Apr 2011 08:14
- 17 of 178
i confess surprise that with one dissenter (fred), this board is so far, unanimous in rejecting AV
the more i dwell on it, even though i have already made up my mind, it is the the thought that only +/-20% of those enfranchised could change the whole structure of a system that has worked well for many centuries despite its imperfections and weaknesses .... that just cannot be right - or fair if it comes to it!
one could even rationalise by saying that the great majority of those who cannot (could not) be bothered to vote at all are perfectly or at least acceptably happy with the status quo - i.e. the "second choice" would be overwhelmingly in favour of leaving well alone
the more i dwell on it, even though i have already made up my mind, it is the the thought that only +/-20% of those enfranchised could change the whole structure of a system that has worked well for many centuries despite its imperfections and weaknesses .... that just cannot be right - or fair if it comes to it!
one could even rationalise by saying that the great majority of those who cannot (could not) be bothered to vote at all are perfectly or at least acceptably happy with the status quo - i.e. the "second choice" would be overwhelmingly in favour of leaving well alone
Balerboy
- 26 Apr 2011 08:51
- 18 of 178
I'm against, for no other reason than I'm an old dinosaur and think one person one vote has worked in the past. Winner takes all and put up with it, I've never entered by the back door.........;>))
kimoldfield
- 26 Apr 2011 10:25
- 19 of 178
If I was even slightly interested in making a second choice when voting then it would mean that I couldn't make my mind up who to vote for, so maybe should not vote at all! It is almost like saying that I want, say, a Conservative member to be elected but wouldn't really mind if a Labour MP got in. Mine is a definite NO vote!
Fred1new
- 26 Apr 2011 10:31
- 20 of 178
Many tribal chief "dictatorships" believed in the status quo, perhaps a belief in that only they were fit to "govern" or have a right to rule.
Many middle eastern chieftains justify their positions on it is working for them and can not see any reason to change.
Not be surprised by the result of poll for AV on this thread, as it sustains a status quo.
On balance, over last 30 years or so, the Libs would have benefitted from PR and AV.
If in place at the last G. election I would have thought Labour would have been caned.
The next election I have a "feeling" that it will improved the result for Labour.
cynic
- 26 Apr 2011 10:44
- 21 of 178
my gut feeling is not to trust AV, or more precisely, its proponents .....
it's worth remembering that income tax was brought in as a temporary measure to pay for the napoleonic wars and indeed was abolished and re-implemented a few times
and to repeat .... i do not like at all the possibility that the status quo could be changed by the votes of just +/-20% of the electorate ..... would not be exactly a change by democratic consensus would it?
it's worth remembering that income tax was brought in as a temporary measure to pay for the napoleonic wars and indeed was abolished and re-implemented a few times
and to repeat .... i do not like at all the possibility that the status quo could be changed by the votes of just +/-20% of the electorate ..... would not be exactly a change by democratic consensus would it?
ExecLine
- 26 Apr 2011 11:18
- 22 of 178
A burning question for me was, " What would have happened at the last General Election if AV had already been implemented?" and so I set about trying to find an answer.
Of course, all of this is merely a purely theoretical result because an actual result would have undoubtedly been influenced differently by the Alternative Voting parameters in place at the time. Nevertheless, since there weren't any, it surely does at least throw up who might be the most interested parties in the making of any changes and bringing AV into a new voting system.
Constituencies That Would Have Changed Hands as a Result of an AV Ballot at the last General Election
Labour to Conservative - 1 seat:
Dudley North
Labour to Liberal Democrat - 19 seats:
Aberdeen South
Edinburgh North and Leith
Edinburgh South
Newport East
Swansea West
Ashfield
Birmingham Hall Green
Bristol South
Chesterfield
Durham City
Hull North
Islington South and Finsbury
Lewisham West and Penge
Newcastle upon Tyne North
Oldham East and Saddleworth
Oxford East
Rochdale
Sheffield Central
Streatham
Conservative to Labour - 10 seats:
Aberconwy
Cardiff North
Brentford and Isleworth
Broxtowe
Hendon
Hove
Lancaster and Fleetwood
Sherwood
Stockton South
Warrington South
Conservative to Liberal Democrat - 13 seats:
Montgomeryshire
Bristol North West
Camborne and Redruth
Colne Valley
Harrogate and Knaresborough
Newton Abbot
Oxford West and Abingdon
Reading East
St Albans
Truro and Falmouth
Watford
Weston-Super-Mare
York Outer
Conclusions Summary
"Although the Conservatives would have gained Dudley North from Labour, this would have been more than offset by their 10 losses to Labour (including Brentford & Isleworth and Hoveboth won with relatively comfortable majorities under FPTP) and their 13 losses to the Liberal Democrats (including Montgomeryshire and Bristol North Westalso won with comfortable FPTP majorities).
Labour, too, would have been a net loserdropping 19 seats to the Liberal Democrats, including the relatively safe seats of Isleworth South & Finsbury and Newcastle on Tyne North.
These results suggest that there may be some very nervous Conservative and Labour MPs in the House of Commons if the AV referendum scheduled for 2011 produces a Yes2AV result."
(The information above was sourced from: "SIMULATING THE EFFECTS OF THE ALTERNATIVE VOTE IN THE 2010 UK GENERAL ELECTION" by David Sanders, Harold D Clarke, Marianne C Stewart and Paul Whitely, University of Essex, dated July 2010, a '2010 British Election Study Working Paper')
Of course, all of this is merely a purely theoretical result because an actual result would have undoubtedly been influenced differently by the Alternative Voting parameters in place at the time. Nevertheless, since there weren't any, it surely does at least throw up who might be the most interested parties in the making of any changes and bringing AV into a new voting system.
Constituencies That Would Have Changed Hands as a Result of an AV Ballot at the last General Election
Labour to Conservative - 1 seat:
Dudley North
Labour to Liberal Democrat - 19 seats:
Aberdeen South
Edinburgh North and Leith
Edinburgh South
Newport East
Swansea West
Ashfield
Birmingham Hall Green
Bristol South
Chesterfield
Durham City
Hull North
Islington South and Finsbury
Lewisham West and Penge
Newcastle upon Tyne North
Oldham East and Saddleworth
Oxford East
Rochdale
Sheffield Central
Streatham
Conservative to Labour - 10 seats:
Aberconwy
Cardiff North
Brentford and Isleworth
Broxtowe
Hendon
Hove
Lancaster and Fleetwood
Sherwood
Stockton South
Warrington South
Conservative to Liberal Democrat - 13 seats:
Montgomeryshire
Bristol North West
Camborne and Redruth
Colne Valley
Harrogate and Knaresborough
Newton Abbot
Oxford West and Abingdon
Reading East
St Albans
Truro and Falmouth
Watford
Weston-Super-Mare
York Outer
Conclusions Summary
"Although the Conservatives would have gained Dudley North from Labour, this would have been more than offset by their 10 losses to Labour (including Brentford & Isleworth and Hoveboth won with relatively comfortable majorities under FPTP) and their 13 losses to the Liberal Democrats (including Montgomeryshire and Bristol North Westalso won with comfortable FPTP majorities).
Labour, too, would have been a net loserdropping 19 seats to the Liberal Democrats, including the relatively safe seats of Isleworth South & Finsbury and Newcastle on Tyne North.
These results suggest that there may be some very nervous Conservative and Labour MPs in the House of Commons if the AV referendum scheduled for 2011 produces a Yes2AV result."
(The information above was sourced from: "SIMULATING THE EFFECTS OF THE ALTERNATIVE VOTE IN THE 2010 UK GENERAL ELECTION" by David Sanders, Harold D Clarke, Marianne C Stewart and Paul Whitely, University of Essex, dated July 2010, a '2010 British Election Study Working Paper')
cynic
- 26 Apr 2011 11:42
- 23 of 178
to clarify for all .....
Conservatives hold 305 but under AV (as above) would reduce to 283
Labour hold 255 but under AV (as above) would reduce to 246
Lib Dems hold 57 but under AV (as above) would increase to 89
Others hold 33 but have assumed they would stay the same
using the logic of the general election, that still left the Conservatives as the largest party and theoretically would still have formed a coalition with the Lib Dems, though no doubt even less comfortable than is now the case
Conservatives hold 305 but under AV (as above) would reduce to 283
Labour hold 255 but under AV (as above) would reduce to 246
Lib Dems hold 57 but under AV (as above) would increase to 89
Others hold 33 but have assumed they would stay the same
using the logic of the general election, that still left the Conservatives as the largest party and theoretically would still have formed a coalition with the Lib Dems, though no doubt even less comfortable than is now the case
Fred1new
- 26 Apr 2011 11:51
- 24 of 178
The supposition is that if we had AV then punters would vote in the same way.
TANKER - 26 Apr 2011 11:53 - 25 of 178
the only voters to vote yes will be the ones that no they will never get power thank god. libs are liars and would and do stab ever one in theback and the last 12 months says it all clegg cable total liars
mnamreh - 26 Apr 2011 12:04 - 26 of 178
.
cynic
- 26 Apr 2011 12:14
- 27 of 178
quite so fred, but one can only work from the facts and info to hand
TANKER - 26 Apr 2011 12:15 - 28 of 178
mna. they would betray there mothers for power ,scum comes to mind
TANKER - 26 Apr 2011 12:15 - 29 of 178
mna. they would betray there mothers for power ,scum comes to mind
TANKER - 26 Apr 2011 12:16 - 30 of 178
the libs no that thevote will be NO they arenow trying to save there soles
mnamreh - 26 Apr 2011 12:16 - 31 of 178
.
cynic
- 26 Apr 2011 12:20
- 32 of 178
tanks - you really are ridiculous at times and merely make yourself look so ..... if you had commented that politicians as a breed rarely if ever act altruistically or somesuch, your post would have had some credibility
TANKER - 26 Apr 2011 12:22 - 33 of 178
cynic i think you will find that even the hard line libs would now agree with me .
clegg as done the country a good favour destoying the party which is very good for the country
clegg as done the country a good favour destoying the party which is very good for the country
TANKER - 26 Apr 2011 12:25 - 34 of 178
cynic . how many libs in gov will be tory candidates next election ?
cynic
- 26 Apr 2011 12:37
- 35 of 178
probably none
TANKER - 26 Apr 2011 13:05 - 36 of 178
cynic you would lose money there will be at least one alexander
margret would be proud of him
margret would be proud of him
mnamreh - 26 Apr 2011 13:16 - 37 of 178
.
TANKER - 26 Apr 2011 13:36 - 38 of 178
mna. thanks for understanding my post the point is we need the best to return this country round for the good of the uk
aldwickk
- 26 Apr 2011 14:01
- 39 of 178
Cynic ,
If Fred is for AV so will Stan
If Fred is for AV so will Stan
cynic
- 26 Apr 2011 14:14
- 40 of 178
utopia is said to be very nice too
mnamreh - 26 Apr 2011 14:46 - 41 of 178
.
Fred1new
- 26 Apr 2011 14:55
- 42 of 178
A mature society would be acceptable.
TANKER - 26 Apr 2011 15:36 - 43 of 178
utopia is peace of mind .
cynic
- 26 Apr 2011 16:42
- 44 of 178
how very idealistic and unreal this thread has suddenly become :-)
now approach the issue without the rose-tinted specs!
now approach the issue without the rose-tinted specs!
mnamreh - 26 Apr 2011 17:02 - 45 of 178
.
TopAnalyst - 26 Apr 2011 18:09 - 46 of 178
I am removing ALL my research from here due to the constant personal abuse, defamation and distortions of it posted by:
ptholden
hlyeo98
halifax
blackdown
kimoldfield
cynic
This bunch of abusive retards is the reason MoneyAM will NEVER have a forum worth reading.
I have reported them to support by they do nothing, either because they want to force me to PAY them for the Traders Room or because they are too lazy to do anything. Maybe the people in support are the ones perpetrating the abuse, so as to force people to pay for the premium boards. Either way the service is sh1te and a disgrace to the finance industry. No wonder there is nobody left here apart from morons.
I will continue posting my good research on boards that are run in accordance with FSA and LSE listing rules and the interests of the market, not here where ar5eh0les rule the boards and all decent research is buried under their piles of sh1te.
ptholden
hlyeo98
halifax
blackdown
kimoldfield
cynic
This bunch of abusive retards is the reason MoneyAM will NEVER have a forum worth reading.
I have reported them to support by they do nothing, either because they want to force me to PAY them for the Traders Room or because they are too lazy to do anything. Maybe the people in support are the ones perpetrating the abuse, so as to force people to pay for the premium boards. Either way the service is sh1te and a disgrace to the finance industry. No wonder there is nobody left here apart from morons.
I will continue posting my good research on boards that are run in accordance with FSA and LSE listing rules and the interests of the market, not here where ar5eh0les rule the boards and all decent research is buried under their piles of sh1te.
TopAnalyst - 26 Apr 2011 18:09 - 47 of 178
I am removing ALL my research from here due to the constant personal abuse, defamation and distortions of it posted by:
ptholden
hlyeo98
halifax
blackdown
kimoldfield
cynic
This bunch of abusive retards is the reason MoneyAM will NEVER have a forum worth reading.
I have reported them to support by they do nothing, either because they want to force me to PAY them for the Traders Room or because they are too lazy to do anything. Maybe the people in support are the ones perpetrating the abuse, so as to force people to pay for the premium boards. Either way the service is sh1te and a disgrace to the finance industry. No wonder there is nobody left here apart from morons.
I will continue posting my good research on boards that are run in accordance with FSA and LSE listing rules and the interests of the market, not here where ar5eh0les rule the boards and all decent research is buried under their piles of sh1te.
ptholden
hlyeo98
halifax
blackdown
kimoldfield
cynic
This bunch of abusive retards is the reason MoneyAM will NEVER have a forum worth reading.
I have reported them to support by they do nothing, either because they want to force me to PAY them for the Traders Room or because they are too lazy to do anything. Maybe the people in support are the ones perpetrating the abuse, so as to force people to pay for the premium boards. Either way the service is sh1te and a disgrace to the finance industry. No wonder there is nobody left here apart from morons.
I will continue posting my good research on boards that are run in accordance with FSA and LSE listing rules and the interests of the market, not here where ar5eh0les rule the boards and all decent research is buried under their piles of sh1te.
mnamreh - 26 Apr 2011 18:18 - 48 of 178
.
Bernard M - 26 Apr 2011 18:27 - 49 of 178
Goodbye.
mnamreh - 26 Apr 2011 18:32 - 50 of 178
.
ptholden
- 26 Apr 2011 18:39
- 51 of 178
M
LoL - Load of tosh.
I take it you never bothered to read the EOG thread and the considerable abuse TA dished out to certain posters for taking a contrarian view to his own?
TA has been ramping EOG on at least four BBs day in day out for months, even getting banned from an ADVFN (quite an achievement) thread for been over-zealous and abusing others. The guy is a total moron - he won't be missed - except for the entertainent value.
LoL - Load of tosh.
I take it you never bothered to read the EOG thread and the considerable abuse TA dished out to certain posters for taking a contrarian view to his own?
TA has been ramping EOG on at least four BBs day in day out for months, even getting banned from an ADVFN (quite an achievement) thread for been over-zealous and abusing others. The guy is a total moron - he won't be missed - except for the entertainent value.
mnamreh - 26 Apr 2011 18:55 - 52 of 178
.
ptholden
- 26 Apr 2011 19:07
- 53 of 178
M
You haven't read the thread and are therefore in no position to offer an informed opinion.
Incidentally, I post under my name, annonymous I am not (you, however, are).
If you believe for one moment deliberate ramping is 'honest' when it's only intent is to sucker the unwary you are more nae than I thought.
Edit. My last word on the subject - back to AV.
You haven't read the thread and are therefore in no position to offer an informed opinion.
Incidentally, I post under my name, annonymous I am not (you, however, are).
If you believe for one moment deliberate ramping is 'honest' when it's only intent is to sucker the unwary you are more nae than I thought.
Edit. My last word on the subject - back to AV.
Fred1new
- 26 Apr 2011 19:22
- 54 of 178
TA,
From memory I haven't read any of your postings. But feel it a little sad that the level of abuse by a few reaches the levels that they do and you wish to leave this thread or any other for the reasons given.
Another possibility rather than leaving the Board, is to squelch those who you find too repugnant.
I admit to having squelched six regular posters, who I thought deliberately personally offensive to myself, or others. It has improved the BBs for me.
There are a few whose posts I still read as although they attempt to offensive, they do show a little wit.
Good luck anyway.
From memory I haven't read any of your postings. But feel it a little sad that the level of abuse by a few reaches the levels that they do and you wish to leave this thread or any other for the reasons given.
Another possibility rather than leaving the Board, is to squelch those who you find too repugnant.
I admit to having squelched six regular posters, who I thought deliberately personally offensive to myself, or others. It has improved the BBs for me.
There are a few whose posts I still read as although they attempt to offensive, they do show a little wit.
Good luck anyway.
cynic
- 26 Apr 2011 19:30
- 55 of 178
herman + fred - suggest you do not take TA's word re abuse but check out what he had to say about a number of us .... mind you, he also said he had squelhed us because we dared to say he was talking rubbish .... fred - i don't think i'm even abusive to you, and not many have that claim!
mnamreh - 26 Apr 2011 19:44 - 56 of 178
.
mnamreh - 26 Apr 2011 20:03 - 57 of 178
.
kimoldfield
- 26 Apr 2011 20:38
- 58 of 178
I have to admit that I am ashamed with myself for having got into a wrangle with TA, mild though it was. I am usually able to contain my anger with anything thrown at me but for some reason was not able to do so in this case. The EOG thread was the offender. I offended TA by asking a perfectly reasonable question, he/she offended me with his/her response. I should have ignored it. :o)
ptholden
- 26 Apr 2011 20:44
- 59 of 178
m - You do talk rubbish. Shame? For what exactly? Err, you can't answer that, because you have no information on which to base an opinion. Best you stop digging an even bigger hole for yourself, you are beginning to look extremely foolish.
mnamreh - 26 Apr 2011 21:26 - 60 of 178
.
ptholden
- 26 Apr 2011 21:45
- 61 of 178
m - Tell you what, why don't you ask Ian at AM for a full transcript of TA's posts and then make your mind up?
Otherwise, just keep digging away. But you did get one thing right, you are irrelevant, however, your carefully crafted insults keep me smiling.
Otherwise, just keep digging away. But you did get one thing right, you are irrelevant, however, your carefully crafted insults keep me smiling.
mnamreh - 26 Apr 2011 21:59 - 62 of 178
.
ptholden
- 26 Apr 2011 22:05
- 63 of 178
m - don't flatter yourself, I have no interest in your psyche, only your stock market knowledge, of which there appears little thus far.
Don't forget, vote against AV.
Don't forget, vote against AV.
ptholden
- 26 Apr 2011 22:35
- 64 of 178
Just for you m, lifted from ADVFN (in case you can't work it out Eye2Eye2 and TA are one and the same) kind of gives you a flavour of what you missed. Incidentally, this was a totally unwarranted attack. No need to apologise.
Eye2Eye2 - 29 Mar'11 - 10:54 - 2478 of 2478
LuckyJonah is a lying BS'g A-Hole.
None of his claims are EVER backed up with ANY links to prove that what he claims has any validity.
He bashes the VERIFIABLE research yet claims he holds the stock. He works for the MM's and brokers developing software, he has already told us that.
Don't believe anything the liar says.
For you now Jonah, I will be writing to your bosses to let them know how much time you have spent BS'ing on EOG and other stocks when they are paying you to be working. I will be sending them my huge collection of your posts over the last 6 months. Have fun with the credit dervivatives you turd, your ego trip is about to come to an end.
Don't forget, vote against AV.
Eye2Eye2 - 29 Mar'11 - 10:54 - 2478 of 2478
LuckyJonah is a lying BS'g A-Hole.
None of his claims are EVER backed up with ANY links to prove that what he claims has any validity.
He bashes the VERIFIABLE research yet claims he holds the stock. He works for the MM's and brokers developing software, he has already told us that.
Don't believe anything the liar says.
For you now Jonah, I will be writing to your bosses to let them know how much time you have spent BS'ing on EOG and other stocks when they are paying you to be working. I will be sending them my huge collection of your posts over the last 6 months. Have fun with the credit dervivatives you turd, your ego trip is about to come to an end.
Don't forget, vote against AV.
cynic
- 27 Apr 2011 07:34
- 65 of 178
peter + herman - enough!
herman - i haven't even scanned through all the recent garabage just posted here, but i can certainly assure you that peter does indeed know his stuff and researches very thoroughly .... as for TA, i think his posts were often self-delusional and his conclusions often just plain daft as the REAL evidence on EOG clearly showed
however, THIS THREAD IS MEANT TO BE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE AV REFERENDUM!
herman - i haven't even scanned through all the recent garabage just posted here, but i can certainly assure you that peter does indeed know his stuff and researches very thoroughly .... as for TA, i think his posts were often self-delusional and his conclusions often just plain daft as the REAL evidence on EOG clearly showed
however, THIS THREAD IS MEANT TO BE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE AV REFERENDUM!
SEADOG
- 27 Apr 2011 07:48
- 66 of 178
Last line endorsed cynic SD
aldwickk
- 27 Apr 2011 08:37
- 67 of 178
I will be glad when the " French Connection " returns and we can get the benefit of his expert knowledge.
What the people want is a referendum on Europe
What the people want is a referendum on Europe
maggiebt4
- 27 Apr 2011 09:12
- 68 of 178
In N Ireland they already use a form or PR for both council and assembly elections which was meant to produce powersharing gov. This it does but effectively removes any real opposition. AV isn't PR and I'm not sure it is suitable for Westminster. What is more worrying is the % of people who don't vote so leaving the "lunatic" fringes, who will vote, with a higher % of say, than should be proportionally theirs.
cynic
- 27 Apr 2011 09:26
- 69 of 178
which has been exactly my point maggie - see post 21 to save you wading back through the recent torrent of garbage
TANKER - 27 Apr 2011 09:35 - 70 of 178
for the first time in my voting years we do not have a lib putting up for election .
Stan
- 27 Apr 2011 09:47
- 71 of 178
Voted last week.
In the last 30 odd years in the UK under the present system and 2 major parties in power we have seen the benefits from North Sea Oil (remember that) and some of our other natural resources used to largely fund the millions of unemployed (what a waste financially and socially), instead of investing the benefits more competently for "our" future.
We have also seen the % of people taking part in the voting system decline alarmingly which can't be good for democracy.
All of the No campaign that I have seen and heard has been shallow, negative and denigrating with most of the major 2 parties MP's on the No side as well (back to the 1st paragraph).
Usually of the opinion that "If it ain't broke don't fix it", but given the above why on earth would anyone want to keep the present system?
So did I vote Yes.. you bet I did.
In the last 30 odd years in the UK under the present system and 2 major parties in power we have seen the benefits from North Sea Oil (remember that) and some of our other natural resources used to largely fund the millions of unemployed (what a waste financially and socially), instead of investing the benefits more competently for "our" future.
We have also seen the % of people taking part in the voting system decline alarmingly which can't be good for democracy.
All of the No campaign that I have seen and heard has been shallow, negative and denigrating with most of the major 2 parties MP's on the No side as well (back to the 1st paragraph).
Usually of the opinion that "If it ain't broke don't fix it", but given the above why on earth would anyone want to keep the present system?
So did I vote Yes.. you bet I did.
cynic
- 27 Apr 2011 10:00
- 72 of 178
post 21 gives part of my own reasons, but i do not denigrate others for their own views
TANKER - 27 Apr 2011 10:14 - 73 of 178
stan . so we now know that you are lib the very people that have destoyed this country with therehumans rights .libs are in a dream and liars look at cable and clegg
if they had there way we would more over run . i would never vote lib a bunch of holligans
if they had there way we would more over run . i would never vote lib a bunch of holligans
Stan
- 27 Apr 2011 10:20
- 74 of 178
Incorrect on all assumptions Tanker.
Sequestor
- 27 Apr 2011 10:22
- 75 of 178
If 99% of the world nations have rejected it but Vince (Loose) Cable is for it I am 100%
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fred1new
- 27 Apr 2011 10:42
- 76 of 178
When does a belief become a reason which is oblivious to thought?
TANKER - 27 Apr 2011 10:46 - 77 of 178
myself i am as far right as possible
Stan
- 27 Apr 2011 10:54
- 78 of 178
"myself i am as far right as possible".. bit like most of the other posters on MAM then -):
aldwickk
- 27 Apr 2011 11:05
- 79 of 178
That's right most of the posters on MAM have voted you and Fred as a couple of tossers, so do the decent thing and piss off
TANKER - 27 Apr 2011 11:09 - 80 of 178
you people who vote yes . are the same people who if attacked would put up the white flag before thinking .
Fred1new
- 27 Apr 2011 17:51
- 81 of 178
Tank,
Not quite right enough, just move along the bench a little more please.
==================
Aids, the oracle, writes again with amazing insight and wit.
----------------------
Not quite right enough, just move along the bench a little more please.
==================
Aids, the oracle, writes again with amazing insight and wit.
----------------------
Fred1new
- 27 Apr 2011 17:53
- 82 of 178
PS. How did you escape TA little list?
cynic
- 27 Apr 2011 18:23
- 83 of 178
excuse me guys, but may we keep this thread sensible .... undoubtedly this is a singularly important issue, but to my mind it should not be bound by "party political lines" as seems to be happening here as well as in the big outside world
a Q for the "yes" camp .... do you think it democratically fair if 20% of the electorate win the day by voting for a change in the system, and if so, why?
a Q for the "yes" camp .... do you think it democratically fair if 20% of the electorate win the day by voting for a change in the system, and if so, why?
Haystack
- 27 Apr 2011 18:50
- 84 of 178
Interesting that the question of AV is being decided by a first past the post system.
My vote is a definite NO.
Australia was held to ransome for several weeks by three MPs from very rural constituencies virtually in the bush who could not decide which party to make the government after their last election because of AV. Italy has had an average of one government a year because of its election system that causes endless coalitions. It is so bad that the public are prepared to put up with Berlusconi to get a stronger government. Israel has a coalition of four or more parties most of the time with extreme right wing religious parties holding the balance of power. Religion should have no place in government including Iran, Pakistan etc. Germany is one of the few countries that manages to make coalition governments work.
I believe that AV will produce more coalitions and that means more deals done behind closed doors and the public only getting a watered down version of what they voted for. It means minority parties have a disproportionate voice and the possibility of extreme parties being elected and possibly holding the balance of power.
My vote is a definite NO.
Australia was held to ransome for several weeks by three MPs from very rural constituencies virtually in the bush who could not decide which party to make the government after their last election because of AV. Italy has had an average of one government a year because of its election system that causes endless coalitions. It is so bad that the public are prepared to put up with Berlusconi to get a stronger government. Israel has a coalition of four or more parties most of the time with extreme right wing religious parties holding the balance of power. Religion should have no place in government including Iran, Pakistan etc. Germany is one of the few countries that manages to make coalition governments work.
I believe that AV will produce more coalitions and that means more deals done behind closed doors and the public only getting a watered down version of what they voted for. It means minority parties have a disproportionate voice and the possibility of extreme parties being elected and possibly holding the balance of power.
Sequestor
- 28 Apr 2011 07:37
- 85 of 178
We all know why LIB/LAB want to change the voting system, keep them out vote
NO!!!
Haystack, that is a very amusing point most have missed re.the first past the post
vote for AV-if the YES vote wins will there be another vote using AV-just to waste another couple of hundred millions?
NO!!!
Haystack, that is a very amusing point most have missed re.the first past the post
vote for AV-if the YES vote wins will there be another vote using AV-just to waste another couple of hundred millions?
cynic
- 28 Apr 2011 07:46
- 86 of 178
i still await fred, stan or any others from the "yes camp" to answer my question in post 83
TANKER - 28 Apr 2011 08:50 - 87 of 178
cynic if a yes means 50% to get elected does that mean if a party does not get 50% then we should have enough election that would be good but then that would go on for ever so . keep to what we have . coalition is no good to many cooks soil the food .
VOTE NO NO NO
VOTE NO NO NO
Sequestor
- 28 Apr 2011 09:58
- 88 of 178
YES TANKER,
oh I mean
NO!!!!!
oh I mean
NO!!!!!
Fred1new
- 28 Apr 2011 12:54
- 89 of 178
Cynic,
If all the possible electorate, is a true representation of the of the public, then a total vote of only 5%, 10% or 20% of possible electorate whether the outcome of the election is yes, or no, then that result can be assume to be democratic.
This is an assumption that there are no "impediments" placed in the way of those who wish to vote Yes or No.
(Where propaganda, coercion, education, media, PR etc. influences the information provided for the public is another consideration,)
Those who don't vote are showing no concern, or are indifferent and are prepared to accept the consequence of their "non-participation" .
The total vote can be seen as a poll and representative of the people.
(That is an assumption that the "electorate" is a true representation of the populace. In this country it is reasonably correct, but it could be open to review and possible tinkering.)
If all the possible electorate, is a true representation of the of the public, then a total vote of only 5%, 10% or 20% of possible electorate whether the outcome of the election is yes, or no, then that result can be assume to be democratic.
This is an assumption that there are no "impediments" placed in the way of those who wish to vote Yes or No.
(Where propaganda, coercion, education, media, PR etc. influences the information provided for the public is another consideration,)
Those who don't vote are showing no concern, or are indifferent and are prepared to accept the consequence of their "non-participation" .
The total vote can be seen as a poll and representative of the people.
(That is an assumption that the "electorate" is a true representation of the populace. In this country it is reasonably correct, but it could be open to review and possible tinkering.)
cynic
- 28 Apr 2011 13:01
- 90 of 178
what you say has its merits (and open to different interpretation) - would one expect otherwise! - which is a good argument as to why voting should be obligatory as it is in oz
Fred1new
- 28 Apr 2011 13:07
- 91 of 178
Not voting has its merits and also influences actions.
(As you might guess, in general I tend not to vote.)
(As you might guess, in general I tend not to vote.)
cynic
- 28 Apr 2011 13:08
- 92 of 178
in that case you should be ashamed of yourself
Fred1new
- 28 Apr 2011 14:53
- 93 of 178
Often!
And often it is fun!
8-)
And often it is fun!
8-)
aldwickk
- 28 Apr 2011 16:57
- 94 of 178
Fred's wit is as sharp as a rubber ball
Haystack
- 28 Apr 2011 23:49
- 95 of 178
ComRes has released a new poll on the AV referendum commissioned by the NO2AV campaign. Topline figures, weighted by likelihood to vote in the referendum and excluding dont knows have the NO campaign ahead by 60% to 40%, the biggest lead the NO campaign have recorded so far.
There is also a new poll by a company called ICD Research in the New Statesman, which shows NO ahead by 14 points: NO 53%, YES 39%, undecided 9% (repercentaged to exclude dont knows it would be a 16 point lead for NO).
Support for AV collapsing, according to Guardian/ICM poll
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/apr/18/support-av-collapsing-guardian-icm-poll
There is also a new poll by a company called ICD Research in the New Statesman, which shows NO ahead by 14 points: NO 53%, YES 39%, undecided 9% (repercentaged to exclude dont knows it would be a 16 point lead for NO).
Support for AV collapsing, according to Guardian/ICM poll
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/apr/18/support-av-collapsing-guardian-icm-poll
cynic
- 29 Apr 2011 07:40
- 96 of 178
let's hope that those polls are reasonably accurate ...... i confess i am amazed how few i know, both here and in the outside world will be voting for AV
aldwickk
- 29 Apr 2011 09:43
- 97 of 178
Fred and Stan won't be posting this morning, they have camped out overnight in one of those twin sleeping bags to catch a sight of the happy couple, no one as told them that Tony and Gordon wasn't invited. Shame it would have been such a gay day for them.
Fred1new
- 01 May 2011 10:37
- 98 of 178
Once again, I see the anal retentive is trying to be noticed.
--------------
Cynic,
(Not you! Sometimes you have your good points. Difficulty is recognising them.)
Right. the offensive parts have been dealt with.
---
I can't see how a government is seen to be a democratic ruling body when it is elected by less than 50% of those who cast their vote.
(Even though the constitution rules that an new election has to be called, either after 5years period, or when the present governing body can not fulfill its responsibility. However there is tremendous weakness on relying on the constitution to protect the rights of the populace, as the ruling body is often more concerned with protecting its own "rolls" and "rights" to be members of the governing body.
I think, even if it is probably just outside your living memory, you can remember how Hitler and other dictators have risen to power.
The argument put forward that in "first past the post" that each vote is equal, is ludicrous. It is representative of each "voter", but not the overall "opinion" or "wishes" of the "electorate" as a whole.
(I can explain that by example, but won't.)
I think the present state in the argument can be seen as "I have the ball" and therefore it is mine until I lose it and then of course we will change the rules, which allow me to have it back.
What is been played out at the moment by government is a form of political gerrymandering. (Consider the unspoken changes of boundaries reform.)
AV. is possibly not the best change, but I think it is a step in the right direction.
Proportional representation would seem a "fairer" and "genuinely" representative of the "voters".
What i would like to see is;
An appointed "body" to consider:-
1) the constitution and its protection,
2) to review the House of Lords in order to remove the hereditary portion and those granted membership on political patronage.
3) to consider movement to an elected second chamber. or a body form from representatives of representative bodies of society as a whole. (This was suggested in the 1930s in some parts of Europe without any real acceptance.)
3) a written bill of rights.
I am unlikely to get the above.
--------------
Cynic,
(Not you! Sometimes you have your good points. Difficulty is recognising them.)
Right. the offensive parts have been dealt with.
---
I can't see how a government is seen to be a democratic ruling body when it is elected by less than 50% of those who cast their vote.
(Even though the constitution rules that an new election has to be called, either after 5years period, or when the present governing body can not fulfill its responsibility. However there is tremendous weakness on relying on the constitution to protect the rights of the populace, as the ruling body is often more concerned with protecting its own "rolls" and "rights" to be members of the governing body.
I think, even if it is probably just outside your living memory, you can remember how Hitler and other dictators have risen to power.
The argument put forward that in "first past the post" that each vote is equal, is ludicrous. It is representative of each "voter", but not the overall "opinion" or "wishes" of the "electorate" as a whole.
(I can explain that by example, but won't.)
I think the present state in the argument can be seen as "I have the ball" and therefore it is mine until I lose it and then of course we will change the rules, which allow me to have it back.
What is been played out at the moment by government is a form of political gerrymandering. (Consider the unspoken changes of boundaries reform.)
AV. is possibly not the best change, but I think it is a step in the right direction.
Proportional representation would seem a "fairer" and "genuinely" representative of the "voters".
What i would like to see is;
An appointed "body" to consider:-
1) the constitution and its protection,
2) to review the House of Lords in order to remove the hereditary portion and those granted membership on political patronage.
3) to consider movement to an elected second chamber. or a body form from representatives of representative bodies of society as a whole. (This was suggested in the 1930s in some parts of Europe without any real acceptance.)
3) a written bill of rights.
I am unlikely to get the above.
Bernard M - 01 May 2011 13:28 - 99 of 178
I vote BNP so no problem.
Seymour Clearly
- 01 May 2011 23:02
- 100 of 178
cynic
- 02 May 2011 18:28
- 101 of 178
but not the overall "opinion" or "wishes" of the "electorate" as a whole. .... slightly out of context i know, but even more the case should the current system be overturned by +/-20% of the electorate
Haystack
- 02 May 2011 20:12
- 102 of 178
The vote on AV may be low in London as there are no council elections at the same time.
cynic
- 02 May 2011 20:33
- 103 of 178
now look at the history of local elections everywhere, and i'll bet they don't average much more than 40% .... to say that this referendum is being met with total disinterest would be overly optimistic - which is why casting your vote is imperative if the nutters on both sides are not to control the field
coeliac1 - 03 May 2011 08:04 - 104 of 178
Morning cynic
In answer to your 83, the answer is that if a majority of people voting vote yes, or no, then that should stand. You could argue about turnout in government and local election contests- just because people can't be bothered to vote doesn't make a result less democratic.
In answer to your 83, the answer is that if a majority of people voting vote yes, or no, then that should stand. You could argue about turnout in government and local election contests- just because people can't be bothered to vote doesn't make a result less democratic.
TANKER - 03 May 2011 08:05 - 105 of 178
cynic . we must not let these libs in with a yes vote they would destoy the uk .they
are a bunch of nutters and have proven this in the last 12 months . my family will vote NO
are a bunch of nutters and have proven this in the last 12 months . my family will vote NO
Balerboy
- 03 May 2011 08:17
- 106 of 178
Very democratic Tanker........do you have a small moustache dark in colour and have a funny walk???.,.
cynic
- 03 May 2011 08:27
- 107 of 178
a debatable point coeliac, given that the "yes camp" use "my" argument as the prime reason as to why the FPTP system should be changed
TANKER - 03 May 2011 08:30 - 108 of 178
bal. only idiots and libs want a yes vote . we would never have a clear winner ever again and would have these lunny libs with there lies and crazy people in power
it would then be time for the rich to leave
it would then be time for the rich to leave
Balerboy
- 03 May 2011 21:55
- 109 of 178
lighten up tanker.,. :))
coeliac1 - 04 May 2011 10:16 - 110 of 178
tanker, you should cheer up a tad and deal with the arguments in a less aggressive way. Surely the idea of AV is to ensure that each constituency has a majority for a candidate rather than the situation at present when you can win with not much more than a third of the vote? You don't have to vote for a second or third choices if you don't want.
Haystack
- 04 May 2011 11:19
- 111 of 178
http://www.comres.co.uk/independentavreferendumpollmay11.aspx
ComRes has a new poll in the Independent, presumably their final call for the AV referendum. Topline referendum voting intention taking into account likelihood to vote and excluding dont knows and wont votes stands at YES 34%, NO 66%. 32 points is by far the largest lead weve seen for the NO campaign, up from 20 points in the last ComRes poll a week ago.
ComRes has a new poll in the Independent, presumably their final call for the AV referendum. Topline referendum voting intention taking into account likelihood to vote and excluding dont knows and wont votes stands at YES 34%, NO 66%. 32 points is by far the largest lead weve seen for the NO campaign, up from 20 points in the last ComRes poll a week ago.
Haystack
- 04 May 2011 11:23
- 112 of 178
Just three countries in the world use AV (Alternative Vote) to elect their National Parliaments. A recent opinion poll showed that six in ten voters in Australia want to get rid of AV and switch to the First-Past-The-Post (FPTP) electoral system used to elect MPs in the UK.
gibby - 04 May 2011 11:31 - 113 of 178
av must be a NO - because if av was used in the last election those idiots at labour would have won it - and look at the mess they left for the current government - as a labour treasury guy said to the new chancellor 'the cupboard is empty' and laughed as he left his post - what a shower labour are for that reason alone av is NO!
Haystack
- 04 May 2011 11:31
- 114 of 178
gibby - 04 May 2011 11:35 - 115 of 178
if the yes is winning it will be due to a low turn out and people not really realising the consequences - amazing!
vote NO! if you are bothering to vote!
vote NO! if you are bothering to vote!
Haystack
- 04 May 2011 11:37
- 116 of 178
No is winning by 2 to 1.
TANKER - 04 May 2011 12:19 - 117 of 178
coe. the only party that would benefit from a yes vote .
and that is a BIG NO FOR ME they aremuppets and liars
and that is a BIG NO FOR ME they aremuppets and liars
gibby - 04 May 2011 12:22 - 118 of 178
ahh - common sense still alive then - cheers
labour and there failed education system multiple revamps, teachers teaching subjects they have no qualifications in & cut price teachers assistants was not able to completely destroy that too then!! phew - some hope remains for uk plc then!
labour and there failed education system multiple revamps, teachers teaching subjects they have no qualifications in & cut price teachers assistants was not able to completely destroy that too then!! phew - some hope remains for uk plc then!
cynic
- 04 May 2011 12:56
- 119 of 178
coeliac - to pursue your argument .... would you regard it as democratic if 20% of the electorate proved able to change the current system? ..... my opinion is that that is akin to 20% of a trades union being able to impose strike action on their whole membership
The Other Kevin
- 04 May 2011 13:24
- 120 of 178
I thought that's what happened anyway.
Haystack
- 04 May 2011 13:49
- 121 of 178
I see Eddie Izzard is campaigning for YES and getting lots of air time on BBC and SKY. What is this obsession with the opinions of celebrities on every subject. You might as well ask Ken Dodd what he thinks.
kimoldfield
- 04 May 2011 14:03
- 122 of 178
Ken Dodd, diddy vote?!
gibby - 04 May 2011 14:43 - 123 of 178
ahhhhhhhh a comedian - lol
kernow
- 04 May 2011 15:38
- 124 of 178
The sad fact is that for all those who apply some intelligent thinking - and most of you qualify :-) before deciding we will be in the minority, outweighed by those who don't vote at all and those who vote without any real prior consideration.
FWIW I really can't decide which way to vote. AV does seem somewhat fairer but likely to make worse compromise government where policies and decisions are made for political reasons.
FWIW I really can't decide which way to vote. AV does seem somewhat fairer but likely to make worse compromise government where policies and decisions are made for political reasons.
cynic
- 04 May 2011 15:44
- 125 of 178
so long as you vote i don't mind especially which camp you decide upon, though i'ld infinitely prefer it were NO
In The Land of the B - 04 May 2011 15:55 - 126 of 178
Vote for AV and you get those awful bearded sandal-wearing unworldly supercilious sanctimonious Liberals selling themselves to the highest bidder - will almost certainly be those Labour turds in future.
maggiebt4
- 04 May 2011 22:03
- 127 of 178
What is so wrong with the person who gets the most votes winning? even if it is on a low percentage poll, which is the fault of apathetic people not the system If I was totally convinced that the person/party I was going to vote for hadn't a chance of winning then I'd vote tactically for the next best imo which would be sort of voting 1,2. Tomorrow I'll be voting 123 for council elections 123 for assembly elections and Y/N for AV I've a mound of leaflets and I still can't work out who's standing for what No doubt all will be revealed on the ballot papers.
coeliac1 - 04 May 2011 23:21 - 128 of 178
Hi cynic
It is surely democratic for people to chose to vote or not, as well as chosing one way or another in the ballot box. I doubt many MPs or local councillors achieve over 50% of the electorate but I don't hear much noise about the non voters having chosen someone to represent them by default.
It is surely democratic for people to chose to vote or not, as well as chosing one way or another in the ballot box. I doubt many MPs or local councillors achieve over 50% of the electorate but I don't hear much noise about the non voters having chosen someone to represent them by default.
Dil
- 05 May 2011 00:19
- 129 of 178
Only way Libs will ever get a taste of power again is if a YES vote wins. A NO vote will make it a straight fight Con v Lab in the future imo.
Libs will disappear after this referundum and will have no one else to blame but themselves after blowing their biggest chance of offering a real alternative they will ever get.
Speed they ditched their policies on education , defence , taxes etc will be second only to the speed that one by one they start opting out of the coalition to try to keep their seats once they lose this.
Cleggs days are numbered.
All imo but you heard it here first :-)
And I'm voting NO.
Libs will disappear after this referundum and will have no one else to blame but themselves after blowing their biggest chance of offering a real alternative they will ever get.
Speed they ditched their policies on education , defence , taxes etc will be second only to the speed that one by one they start opting out of the coalition to try to keep their seats once they lose this.
Cleggs days are numbered.
All imo but you heard it here first :-)
And I'm voting NO.
Dil
- 06 May 2011 02:01
- 130 of 178
Libs appear (without a result being announced yet) as predicted are getting stuffed in Wales.
Cardiff Central at general election was Libs 51% , Lab 21% , Cons 14% , Others 14% and now the Libs are saying its too close to call in yesterdays Welsh Assembley election ... says it all.
Cardiff Central at general election was Libs 51% , Lab 21% , Cons 14% , Others 14% and now the Libs are saying its too close to call in yesterdays Welsh Assembley election ... says it all.
Fred1new
- 06 May 2011 15:39
- 131 of 178
Dil,
Did your vote count?
Did your vote count?
cynic
- 06 May 2011 20:30
- 132 of 178
mine did! ... i voted NO and won .... fred and his gang have been given a good towelling by those who bothered to vote, but it will be interesting to watch how well the coalition now hangs together - or not as the case may be
Fred1new
- 06 May 2011 21:38
- 133 of 178
Cynic,
Cast your mind back to how long it took for the serfs to get their vote or women's suffrage took.
Within 15years there will be a PR system for election of government.
But I am interested to see the outcome of Clegg and the Libs and how long this coalition takes to unravel.
But who in their right mind would shake hands with Cameron.
Cast your mind back to how long it took for the serfs to get their vote or women's suffrage took.
Within 15years there will be a PR system for election of government.
But I am interested to see the outcome of Clegg and the Libs and how long this coalition takes to unravel.
But who in their right mind would shake hands with Cameron.
In The Land of the B - 06 May 2011 22:23 - 134 of 178
Don't you just love seeing those sanctimonious Liberals squirm :)
Dil
- 07 May 2011 01:34
- 135 of 178
Yes my vote counted Fred as did everyone else's who voted , missing your point here.
Joe Say
- 07 May 2011 08:23
- 136 of 178
with you there Land of the B
and you can add the sanctimonious bbc - predictions of 1,000 lost tory seats - and the reality is hundreds of gains
and you can add the sanctimonious bbc - predictions of 1,000 lost tory seats - and the reality is hundreds of gains
Fred1new
- 07 May 2011 09:23
- 137 of 178
Dil.
Just baiting, now barbs this time.
====
In England, I must admit that I am a little surprised how well the tory vote held up, but not of the Libs crash.
I think the latter has dug its own grave, the former are still digging.
That may relate some of them back to their previous membership
base.
Also shows a social split in England.
===============
Wonder what the election results would have been if the election was held in 6-9months time.
================
I wonder when Lansley will be dumped.
Just baiting, now barbs this time.
====
In England, I must admit that I am a little surprised how well the tory vote held up, but not of the Libs crash.
I think the latter has dug its own grave, the former are still digging.
That may relate some of them back to their previous membership
base.
Also shows a social split in England.
===============
Wonder what the election results would have been if the election was held in 6-9months time.
================
I wonder when Lansley will be dumped.
In The Land of the B - 07 May 2011 09:34 - 138 of 178
Our local Liberals in Wimbledon are the most duplicitous of politicians, and that's saying something as lies and distortion are bred in most politicians, local and national.
They richly deserve to be annihilated.
They richly deserve to be annihilated.
Haystack
- 07 May 2011 09:51
- 139 of 178
Vince Cable has attacked the Lib Dems' Tory coalition partners as "ruthless, calculating and very tribal" but insisted the coalition would continue.
I hope he is right. It is what we need at the moment.
I hope he is right. It is what we need at the moment.
Fred1new
- 07 May 2011 11:06
- 140 of 178
It would seems a very reasonable assessment.
Tribal often means primitive in search of leadership and obeying their "chronological" elders.
The present cabinet fits the bill nicely.
How old is Ashcroft?
Tribal often means primitive in search of leadership and obeying their "chronological" elders.
The present cabinet fits the bill nicely.
How old is Ashcroft?
Haystack
- 07 May 2011 11:50
- 141 of 178
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1384465/Worse-Michael-Foot-Ed-Miliband-faces-calls-change-polls-promise-turns-nightmare.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Worse than Michael Foot! Ed Miliband faces calls for change after polls promise turns to nightmare
Ed Miliband is facing calls to change his strategy after a dismal result in the local elections that was worse than that achieved by Michael Foot.
Labour won more than 800 extra council seats but recorded its worst performance in Scotland for 80 years and failed to connect with key swing voters in Southern England.
Senior colleagues had said Mr Miliband needed to win 40 per cent of the votes, but he fell well short.
With four in ten votes counted, Labour had won just 37 per cent.
Several members of the Shadow Cabinet are now expected to tell the Labour leader he needs to craft a more coherent message on the economy and do more to take on the Tories if he is to have any chance of securing power.
His performance compared unfavourably with Mr Foot, who picked up 988 seats in 1981 when Margaret Thatchers government was making unpopular spending cuts similar to those introduced by David Cameron.
Mr Foot secured 41 per cent of the vote that year but was heavily defeated in the 1983 general election
Worse than Michael Foot! Ed Miliband faces calls for change after polls promise turns to nightmare
Ed Miliband is facing calls to change his strategy after a dismal result in the local elections that was worse than that achieved by Michael Foot.
Labour won more than 800 extra council seats but recorded its worst performance in Scotland for 80 years and failed to connect with key swing voters in Southern England.
Senior colleagues had said Mr Miliband needed to win 40 per cent of the votes, but he fell well short.
With four in ten votes counted, Labour had won just 37 per cent.
Several members of the Shadow Cabinet are now expected to tell the Labour leader he needs to craft a more coherent message on the economy and do more to take on the Tories if he is to have any chance of securing power.
His performance compared unfavourably with Mr Foot, who picked up 988 seats in 1981 when Margaret Thatchers government was making unpopular spending cuts similar to those introduced by David Cameron.
Mr Foot secured 41 per cent of the vote that year but was heavily defeated in the 1983 general election
Fred1new
- 07 May 2011 12:08
- 142 of 178
I see the tories story in Scotland is one of success.
How many seats did Labour pick up overall.
I await with interest the next round especially after the the economy crashes and unemployment soars.
The world thinks Georgie boy's economy that they are flogging of Stirling.
How many crows make a false dawn.
How many seats did Labour pick up overall.
I await with interest the next round especially after the the economy crashes and unemployment soars.
The world thinks Georgie boy's economy that they are flogging of Stirling.
How many crows make a false dawn.
Sequestor
- 07 May 2011 12:42
- 143 of 178
Thank god for Alex and the SNP- full autonomy to Sctland will save England 24 bn a year in handouts.
Get that vote out Alex.
Get that vote out Alex.
gibby - 07 May 2011 13:38 - 144 of 178
well glad to see common sense prevailed and the no vote won
and to anyone considering voting for the lib dems - apart from a myriad of stupid policies dont forget they would open the immigration flood gates which as labour were doing will finish off this country once and fall - i have nothing personal against immigrants but a lot of them come here and take the piss, additionally uk is only a small country, infrastructure can not take anymore, we are skint thanks to labour, they have been taken the majority of jobs et cetera
and labour - what useless hypocrites - they run the country in to the ground living on credit - giving uk money to countries that use it incorrectly or who are better off than the uk e.g. china - labour and those 2 idiots crazy nut blair and brown the imbecile have ruined the uk
brown mr prudent - thats a laff if it wasnt so sad!!!! LOL! ps dont ask him to sell any gold you may have spare - what a twot he is!
i could go on and on about labour - but i can not think of one thing they did that was a success and that they actually carried out correct due dilligence before implementing anything - idiots
and to anyone considering voting for the lib dems - apart from a myriad of stupid policies dont forget they would open the immigration flood gates which as labour were doing will finish off this country once and fall - i have nothing personal against immigrants but a lot of them come here and take the piss, additionally uk is only a small country, infrastructure can not take anymore, we are skint thanks to labour, they have been taken the majority of jobs et cetera
and labour - what useless hypocrites - they run the country in to the ground living on credit - giving uk money to countries that use it incorrectly or who are better off than the uk e.g. china - labour and those 2 idiots crazy nut blair and brown the imbecile have ruined the uk
brown mr prudent - thats a laff if it wasnt so sad!!!! LOL! ps dont ask him to sell any gold you may have spare - what a twot he is!
i could go on and on about labour - but i can not think of one thing they did that was a success and that they actually carried out correct due dilligence before implementing anything - idiots
gibby - 07 May 2011 13:39 - 145 of 178
sorry the typos - in a hurry just now
Haystack
- 07 May 2011 15:28
- 146 of 178
The 10 local authorities which voted YES were Lambeth, Southwark, Islington, Camden, Haringey and Hackney in London along with Oxford, Cambridge, Glasgow Kelvin and Edinburgh Central.
430 NO AND 10 YES
430 NO AND 10 YES
TANKER - 07 May 2011 15:31 - 147 of 178
take a look and read about ealing hospital . immigrants are destoying the foundations of the uk . the planet is being destoyed faster than people think.breeding out of control STOP THE BENEFITS FOR HAVING KIDS
Fred1new
- 07 May 2011 17:23
- 148 of 178
Tanker,
It does seem a pity that some parents were allowed to breed.
I have a "feeling" that when the Scots feel the consequences of Georgie's economic policies then Salmond may have a walk over in a referendum on further devolution.
But of course it would mean closer relationship with the EU where the Scots are readily acceptable
Cameron already has his eyes bulging at the thought.
I wonder if Wales will move in the same direction.
It does seem a pity that some parents were allowed to breed.
I have a "feeling" that when the Scots feel the consequences of Georgie's economic policies then Salmond may have a walk over in a referendum on further devolution.
But of course it would mean closer relationship with the EU where the Scots are readily acceptable
Cameron already has his eyes bulging at the thought.
I wonder if Wales will move in the same direction.
Fred1new
- 07 May 2011 17:32
- 149 of 178
Forgot. I now realise what Cameron meant by devolution of power to the local control and administration.
How many more cock ups is he going to be responsible for.
How many more cock ups is he going to be responsible for.
cynic
- 07 May 2011 17:58
- 150 of 178
fred - i am getting so bored with 99% of your posts that i am sorely tempted to squelch you, where i am afraid you will be on your own, for it is not a function i ever use
Fred1new
- 07 May 2011 18:13
- 151 of 178
C'est la vie!
Fred1new
- 07 May 2011 18:18
- 152 of 178
Cynic.
I found out when I was a young boy, that often those who liked "handing it out" didn't have the "stomach to take it", and often cried "foul play" when the game got rough!
I found out when I was a young boy, that often those who liked "handing it out" didn't have the "stomach to take it", and often cried "foul play" when the game got rough!
Haystack
- 07 May 2011 18:18
- 153 of 178
The Labour Party are doomed at present. Ed Millipede is very unpopular with the country in general and his MPs even more so and unelectable.
The Labour Party is broke again. The Conservatives should walk any election during the next year or so. In fact as time goes on they should get a bigger and bigger majority. There have been several suggestion today of an autumn election called by Cameron.
The Labour Party is broke again. The Conservatives should walk any election during the next year or so. In fact as time goes on they should get a bigger and bigger majority. There have been several suggestion today of an autumn election called by Cameron.
gibby - 07 May 2011 18:22 - 154 of 178
fred - not as many cock ups as labour are responsible for - that would be impossible - europe used & abused labour, so called human rights - what a mess, prisoners claimimg thousands of pounds for falling out of bed! prisoners living in luxury etc, labours stupid targets ruined hospitals with management teams, schooling - oh i know need to hit our targets so lets make the exams easier and lower the goal posts, money wasted not by the million but billion, sickness benefit, single mother benefit, immigrants benefit (note the skewed figures of immigration from labour from the minority they knew and admitted weree here were based on adults coming in only and does not include their brood of kids - and boy do they breed 5 + children a norm), plastic police, police spending more time on red tape and i am not even started yet - cameron has a long way to go to emulate that pile of shat and considering the shat labour left in their wake at least he is getting things done - has to or uk plc is finished eg cameron is tackling the work shy who claim sickness - many have now signed off or been removed - it should only go to the real sick people not the ones that labour did not tackle because they were scared of losing thier votes et cetera et cetera!
gibby - 07 May 2011 18:25 - 155 of 178
oh and bLIAR, friends with the likes of gadaffi!
cynic
- 07 May 2011 19:21
- 156 of 178
fred - it's just that i find nearly all your posts thoroughly tiresome and, apart from inside your own head, all too often without proper logic, let alone common sense .... in fact, i think much of what you post is merely for effect and to be contentious with neither cause nor true justification .... if that's what rocks your boat, then good luck to you i guess, though i for one just feel sorry for you and remain very thankful that we do not move in the same circles
Haystack
- 07 May 2011 19:27
- 157 of 178
Vince Cable's attack on the ruthless Tories is a bit pathetic. The Liberals are playing in the senior playground for once, but they don't seem to know the rules. They are complaining to the teacher that the big boys are too rough for them.
The answer may be to go back to the junior playground where nurse is handy to put some ointment on those grazed knees and give them a comforting hug. It is much safer pretending you want power and knowing you won't get it.
I saw an interview with Max Hasting a few weeks ago where he said, "The Liberals always were the Silly Party and they still are".
Cameron offered them any date they wanted for the AV referendum. They chose the end of the first year when you could bet that they would be unpopular. Had they waited for a couple more years when the economy might have been a lot better then they could have risen in popularity and the public would have wanted to give them a chance. The public knew very well that the Liberals were the only real gainer in a change in the voting system, which is why they voted NO out of spite.
As it is, the Liberal voters feel betrayed, not realising that in a coalition you can't have all your wishes come true.
The answer may be to go back to the junior playground where nurse is handy to put some ointment on those grazed knees and give them a comforting hug. It is much safer pretending you want power and knowing you won't get it.
I saw an interview with Max Hasting a few weeks ago where he said, "The Liberals always were the Silly Party and they still are".
Cameron offered them any date they wanted for the AV referendum. They chose the end of the first year when you could bet that they would be unpopular. Had they waited for a couple more years when the economy might have been a lot better then they could have risen in popularity and the public would have wanted to give them a chance. The public knew very well that the Liberals were the only real gainer in a change in the voting system, which is why they voted NO out of spite.
As it is, the Liberal voters feel betrayed, not realising that in a coalition you can't have all your wishes come true.
TANKER - 07 May 2011 19:53 - 158 of 178
fred. you are a fool and i expect you are a small time player. so go and play with the children which is about your score
Fred1new
- 08 May 2011 09:11
- 159 of 178
I see the concert party are out again with their mantras.
Tanker, you seem to be sinking again, why not try a little unpaid work for the Cameron society.
It would be interesting to have an election in 12 months time.
As far the financing the political parties is concerned,I think it suggests a corrupt society when a small number of individual similar to Murdock, Aschroft and some others who have their money in overseas tax havens are able to buy political party.
As Vince Cable suggested the tory party is a tribe and tribal and still for many the Nasty Party.
I will watch with interest the demise of the present government.
Tanker, you seem to be sinking again, why not try a little unpaid work for the Cameron society.
It would be interesting to have an election in 12 months time.
As far the financing the political parties is concerned,I think it suggests a corrupt society when a small number of individual similar to Murdock, Aschroft and some others who have their money in overseas tax havens are able to buy political party.
As Vince Cable suggested the tory party is a tribe and tribal and still for many the Nasty Party.
I will watch with interest the demise of the present government.
Sequestor
- 08 May 2011 10:15
- 160 of 178
Great posts guys
bogbrush.
bogbrush.
kernow
- 08 May 2011 14:36
- 161 of 178
Fred - I don't share your politics but I do enjoy your posts. Please ignore those who can't take a pluralistic view.
Fred1new
- 08 May 2011 19:03
- 162 of 178
Kernow,
Thank you.
It takes courage to question one's own "beliefs" and realising the long term consequences of one's actions.
Some are too frightened to do so.
But my next important question to answer for myself, is whether I cook the mussels before or after the squid.
It is nice now to be only to be responsible for personal decisions actions and consequences.
Thank you.
It takes courage to question one's own "beliefs" and realising the long term consequences of one's actions.
Some are too frightened to do so.
But my next important question to answer for myself, is whether I cook the mussels before or after the squid.
It is nice now to be only to be responsible for personal decisions actions and consequences.
cynic
- 08 May 2011 20:24
- 163 of 178
fred - does one therefore assume that wife and offspring have fled the nest?
Fred1new
- 08 May 2011 21:16
- 164 of 178
The wife hasn't, but my four daughters have, but all enjoy my cooking.
(Generally.)
(Generally.)
Fred1new
- 08 May 2011 21:20
- 165 of 178
Ps.
Be careful, when you are in France as I will be arriving there towards the end of this week and I have a new recipe for Octopus.
The other part of my my mission "impossible" is to teach the French to understand my dialect.
Be careful, when you are in France as I will be arriving there towards the end of this week and I have a new recipe for Octopus.
The other part of my my mission "impossible" is to teach the French to understand my dialect.
gibby - 08 May 2011 21:35 - 166 of 178
not fred the shred by any chance!
joking aside - not too keen on mussels - squid yes pls - like fried, calameres espana or maybe portuegese or even squid in its own milk aka calameres en su tinta - very versatile - enjoy however you prepare / cook
joking aside - not too keen on mussels - squid yes pls - like fried, calameres espana or maybe portuegese or even squid in its own milk aka calameres en su tinta - very versatile - enjoy however you prepare / cook
Bernard M - 09 May 2011 07:04 - 167 of 178
Can't stand this slimey cnut.
cynic
- 09 May 2011 08:24
- 168 of 178
tinta = ink!
bernard - your comment smacks of anti-semiticism!
bernard - your comment smacks of anti-semiticism!
TANKER - 09 May 2011 08:28 - 169 of 178
BM i agree . arsewipe is better
Fred1new
- 09 May 2011 08:55
- 170 of 178
Tanker,
Was Ed looking at you when the photograph was taken.
I see Cameron and his henchmen are taking another quick open reverse on the NHS and Politically appointed Police "chiefs".
He must have read to many American comics in Eton. Not the only mess they are famous for.
Was Ed looking at you when the photograph was taken.
I see Cameron and his henchmen are taking another quick open reverse on the NHS and Politically appointed Police "chiefs".
He must have read to many American comics in Eton. Not the only mess they are famous for.
Fred1new
- 09 May 2011 08:58
- 171 of 178
I am sorry I am confusing new proposals with a review of policies.
It wasn't me gov., it was the previous Gov's policy.
HO HO HO.
It wasn't me gov., it was the previous Gov's policy.
HO HO HO.
TANKER - 09 May 2011 11:12 - 172 of 178
f
TANKER - 09 May 2011 11:20 - 173 of 178
.........
mnamreh - 09 May 2011 12:04 - 174 of 178
.
TANKER - 09 May 2011 12:11 - 175 of 178
mna. so you agree he was just that a human not a profit .
just imagine putting [ paul daniels ] back in those times .
he would of been a god immortal
just imagine putting [ paul daniels ] back in those times .
he would of been a god immortal
Fred1new
- 09 May 2011 12:18
- 176 of 178
Although not knowing what went before, it would also seem a miracle.
cynic
- 09 May 2011 12:24
- 177 of 178
.
mnamreh - 09 May 2011 12:28 - 178 of 178
.
| About MoneyAM | Ts and Cs | Privacy Policy | Investment Warning | Content Standards | Corporate Solutions | Advertise With Us | Site Map | © 2025 MoneyAM |
Register now for FREE
Share Prices,
Stock Quotes,
Charts, Bulletin Boards, Indices, Watchlists, Portfolio, Market News, Research
or see our Premium Services including Level 2, Terminal and much more.
Follow us on Twitter