Hi, Read your tips on moneyam.com, new at this game, have about 2k to play with never actually brought stock and shares.

How can i find things like penny shares and how do you do the research on a particulare share.

Who to use to buy and sell the shares and what their rates are like.

I hope you don't mind me approaching you like this.

Would prefer to buy shares that are termed as pennies shares (below 1).

Also is a minumum buy and a maxium buy of the Shares ?

Any tips - Help !!!!!!!!!

Thank in advance.

You should always spread your risk, so divide your money. If you invest say 1k per share - then that's the maximum you can lose if one goes down! (Hopefully not both!)

There is a penny share thread on this BB - click on the BB Search and type in Penny shares and it should locate it for you.

Personally I have a about 25 ftse100, 25 ftse350 & about 25 others I've been watching & researching over the last couple of years. Every so often I add or take away one if I don't think it's doing much! The hardest thing is picking the shares. About 75% of the ones I look at pay a dividend so price movements tend to be reasonable.

I use limit orders a lot as I only purchase long (I want the price to go up) and and not short (I want the price to go down). I try and work out a good low price that the share could make and set up a order to buy at that price. I alway try not to spend more than 1k per share - so that's the maximum I can lose if it goes down! Although if it's a share I know well, and the price is still going lower, I have been know to purchase more on the way down!
I have a target of 5% cash profit a month. So far this year I have averaged 10%. It's important not to be greedy. If I only make 50 profit on my 1K when I sell the shares, it's not a problem if I have only held the share for 2 days.

Almost forgot - join a investment club! You can learn a lot without risking much money............

Thanks for the advise little woman,

Not trying to sound stupid byt wat is 25 fste200 25 ftse350 ????

Also when trying to buy a share there are different prices like


Security long name: ACTIVE CAPITAL TRUST PLC ORD 0.1P
Cur Bid Offer Price Change Chg% High Low Volume Time

GBX 63.00 65.00 64.00 0.00 - 64.00 64.00 3784 11:21 Last close 64.00


Taken from londonstockexhange.com

Now what i don't understand is

If there is a bid of 63
Do you buy it at the offer price of 65
Although the last close reports 64

I am confused

Then the issue of volume, Is that how many shares are left to purchase.

I watched on TV a few days back a teachear who as a hobby dabbles on the stock market she was not impressed with her broker so decided to learn the trade by herself.

I was impressed by her - and on tv mentioned this website. So I thought lets give it a try.

So here I am trying - but need pushing at the right direction

PS you mentioned join a investmnet club, what is one of them and how can i join, do you have one to recommend ???


Thanks Syed

It means:
To buy costs you 65p
To sell gets you 63p
All the 64s are simply the average of those
The price has not changed today

syed_22

Do not listern to BB hype, they love newcomers like you and your cash will quickly disapear.

Dont come into this thinking that in the first year you will turn your 2k into 10k, because you wont. If you have anything left you would be doing well.

syed 22
if the fundamentals in stocks you hold are good dont worry about market movers trying to downgrade stocks,and ultimately try to get small holders of stocks to panic and sell,when the price drops,winterfloods did this with rtd the other day.

syed_22

Your example above is a typical stock quote.

The mid price is 64p. The bid and offer are the prices at which the market makers (who trade the stock) are prepared to trade. If you want to buy they'll let you have it at 65p. If you want to sell they'll take it off your hands for 63p. This "spread" between the 2 prices is how they take their cut for trading it and the mid is the average of both those sides.

The last close of 64p is the mid price the stock closed at yesterday. The volume is the number of shares that have been traded today so far; that includes both buys and sells.

Hope it helps.

Al

EDIT - I'd suggest you find a decent book on the basics of investing. Most good bookshops have a section devoted to all you need to start.

Big Al thanks for that makes more sense now - need to find a good online broker now. There are so many out there not what to choose from.

Do any of you guys have had any bad/good experience with any online brokers.
And when they charge you (between 7 - 12) does this include the stamp duty ???

syed_22

Any quote they make will be their commission. Stamp duty will be over and above.

I use Comdirect for self-select ISA. They deal too. Had no trouble and comm. is a flat fee. I think there are probably better ones. I also trade spreadbets with CMC and CFD's with GNI. Both these are margined accounts and I would not recommend you consider one of these until you know exactly what you're dealing with as regards buying and selling shares.

I also have a fairly redundant account with Stocktrade, but have not used it for ages. There's a few dogs sitting there!!

To start, I'd probably go for the best flat rate deal I could find. There's adverts all over the websites and magazines such as Shares or Investors Chronicle.

Al

hoodlessbrennan are currently doing a first month dealing free & then a flat 7 per deal. I have a comdirect account, but am moving over to hoodlessbrennan as it's cheaper. (see directory above for thier details)

headlessbraindead?
hmmm not one I would recommend

You have such a lovely way with words .... They were recommended to me by someone who is extremely happy with their service. I've had a lot of different types of dealing accounts over the last 20+ years and come to the conclusion that the service is only as good as the current staff the brokers employ at that time!

Therefore I now just go for cheap! As long as I can buy & sell without too many drama's and it doesn't cost much - I'm happy.

little woman,

Can your "cheap" broker get you into or out of a position before 8am? How much of an effort will he make to get you within the spread? And what about size? Will he he let you short a p!ssy small cap or OFEX cr@p? How cheap is he really?

No he can't but nor did any of my expensive brokers!

A fixed fee of 7 a deal is the cheapest I've ever had. So far I've also been able to purchase within the spread too. I still have an account with comdirect which I thought was pretty good, but paid 12.50 a deal. I just need an execution only service - was paying 25.00 minimum until I opened the comdirect account. I'm not knowledgable enough or have enough spare cash to really take it beyond the basics.

The above simply goes to prove there are many things to consider. Cost is one, but service is also another. It also depends on what you want and the time of day you wish to trade.

If you're buying and selling between 8am and 16:30pm, then fair enough, but there can be great advantages to having a broker that can get you in and out outwith those hours.

And that was the Crux of a recent dispute on The Traders thread!We all read and learn.

syed, just a word on penny shares - don't be lulled into thinking they're cheap. A company whose shares cost 1 with 1 million shares in circulation has exactly the same value as a company whose shares cost 10p with 10 million shares in circulation, same for 1p share with 100 million in circulation.

A share whose value goes from 20p to 10p will do the same to you as a company whose shares go from 2p to 1p - a dog is a dog!!!

Sorry if this sounds very negative. All I mean to say is do your homework before you start. Trade on paper first, then trade with money you can afford to lose. I always work out what my breakeven price is before I buy after taking into account the buy and sell commission and 0.5% stamp duty. Then work out my target price, and my stoploss and how much I would lose I it went down.

My formula is:

(Using ComDirect @ 12.50 per deal, who I use and am very happy with - not the cheapest but usually very reliable)
Say 1000 worth of stock. Using your example. Buy @ 65p
So, 1000 less 12.50 commission = 987.50. Stamp duty of 0.5% means divide by 1.005 leaves you with 982.59 for your stocks.
982.59 divided by 0.65 (pence per share) means you will get 1511 shares
You now need to know your breakeven. The shares have cost you 1000
You will have to pay 12.50 to sell them, so your total cost is 1012.50
Divide this by 1511 gives a figure of 67.001p to breakeven. So, your 63p bid price needs to rise to 67p before you even make any money. Patience required. And, timing your entry to get the best buy price is crucial. Having said all this, on a 63/65 spread, you could probably have got the shares within the spread at (say) 64.8p depending on the stock.

One final negative, most traders lose a lot of money before they get it right, I did (edit and still often do) and most of the well known names on these boards did as well.

I hope this isn't simplistic and grandma / sucking eggs approach. Just trying to help. And good luck.

Guys thanks for the advise, Here i come.

Think i might get some shares in NEWMEDIA SPARK, there was a good article about them in shares. Went to LSexhange site :

Had a look at the trends looks good and now I hear they have 51 million in the bank.

What do you think guys good move ????

Also is a simple formula at hand to work out what you have to do to break even

And do you put the stamp duty when you sell and when you buy ?

Stamp duty is only on buys not sells.

Break even is (purchase price + stamp duty + commission)/ (current bid + commission)

Divide the above by the number of shares to get breakeven per share.

Thats make so much sense now, thanks guys...

Syed_22

What do you guys think about me buying my first shares in Newmedia spark ????

Have you registered to play the game at www.comdirect.co.uk?

They give you a virtual 100,000 to play with over a month. Also you then have access to research on the shares you buy.

I often try out shares on the game, to watch what they are doing. This month one of the shares I'm playing with in Newmedia spark and I am currently showing a loss!

(I think one of the directors sold some shares on the 13th, the day after they announced there results.)

Suggest you get a copy of the annual report.

Also New Media Spark tipped in Shares magazine - there will be a lot of folks buying on the strength of that - then wanting to get out just as you get in. Wait, play the game virtually. The market will ALWAYS be there - will you?

Sorry - but this is the voice of bitter experience talking. Once you can identify a stock easily and you have more winners than losers, use real money. Even now, after doing this for years, my finger sometimes hovers on the buy button and I get cold feet.

The main thing is plan plan plan.

I can recommend Sharescope end of day program to quickly flick through & find out which stocks are on a rising trend very easily. After initial purchase it costs 11.95 a month. Most non daytraders use it.

Hi guys I want to find the price of shares for a unit Trust (Norwich Union Property), where do i get the info on that pls.

I was told by one of our ecomomist that this looks like a promising share, I just want to do the research muself.

I went to the LSexchange.com and typed the details - could not find it there .

Any suggestions

Syed

The Finanacial times have a price listing i think...

Thanks for that will look into that


Syed

ABOUT THE NORWICH PROPERTY FUND

Best Fund in Property Sector over 5 years

Key Points
- Large & broad based fund.
- Highly resourced property team.
- Useful for portfolio diversification.

Fund Facts
Sector: Property
Structure: UNIT TRUST
Launched: September, 1991
Size: 623.08m.
Yield (net) : 2.6%
Dividends paid: 31/1, 31/7.

This fund benefits from a large and dedicated property team, and at over 500m in size is always likely to have exposure to all the main sectors. Therefore due to the low correlation of property to equities the trust is useful for portfolio planning purposes.

Investment Selection: The objective is to achieve optimum returns via income and capital appreciation through investment in certain kinds of commercial property, property-related assets, government and other public securities and units in collective vehicles.
Direct property purchases are preferred and a strong credit rating for tenants is a primary aim for the management team so as to limit tenant default risk. Property-related assets (shares) will normally account for 20% of the portfolio.
Valuations are undertaken monthly by an independent third-party.
Portfolio Details : The portfolio is generally invested in the following areas: Offices, Industrial, Shops, Retail warehousing, Property shares and Cash. No more than 5% of the fund in any individual holding and no tenant can account for more than 20% of the income of the fund. Bets against the IPD Property index are regularly monitored.
How actively is this fund managed ? There are some limits placed on the portfolio but these could result in significant divergences from the benchmark from time to time.
How risky is this fund? Over the last 3 years the annualised volatility of returns has averaged 3.9%. By way of comparison, this is 0.9 times as much as the benchmark index and 0.2 times as much as the FTSE All Share Index.

ABOUT THE MANAGER: Gerardine Davies (since July 2001)
A Chartered Surveyor and holds a Diploma in Property Investment, she joined Morley Fund management in July 2001. Previously she worked at Hermes where she was responsible for overseeing the acquisition by Hermes and GE Capital of MEPC, a 4 billion quoted property company. Before working for Hermes she worked for NPI between 1989-96 and was put in charge of the unit linked pension and life property funds in 1993. Before NPI she worked for the British Gas Pension fund which she joined in 1985 where she was a senior property executive.

Fund holdings:
3.2% British Land (property share)
2.8% Farnborough (office)
2.8% Guildford (industrial)
2.6% Maidstone (industrial)
2.3% Maidstone (retail warehouse)
2.3% London (office)
2.2% Land Securities (property share)
2.2% Edinburgh (office)
1.9% Glasgow (office)
1.9% London (in town retail)

Sector Split:
30.5% Offices
27.8% Industrial
22.6% Retail Warehousing
14.2% Shops
4.9% Other

For anyone thats interested I am trading with www.nothing-ventured.com. It's a stupid name I admit and probably makes it sound like a naff trading site, but in fact it is a seriously good share dealing site.
Features are:
1. Flat 9.95 fee on all trades.
2. 'Streaming' facility thats lets you see real time prices as they change - right there and then!! (brilliant - like being a real stockbroker)
3. Trade Analysis - allows you to see all the transactions of other people going through on that stock so you can see the buying trend.
4. News Hub - a great news collection point that gathers up all the LSE news from various sources as it is released.

My tip for buying shares is buy on good news - sell on bad. Don't buy on tips, just use those as reinforcement for your own decisions. Keep in touch with news and tips on the shares you own eg. newspaper tips, broker tips. Opinions alone can make or break share value. I usually buy on good trading results or new contract news as these things will almost always will make the share value rise.
Oh, and one other thing - don't be the first man in or the last man out. Let other people make the first move!

A bit plagerised but makes sense:

*********************************

Sell on the rumour, buy on the fact
The reverse Sell on the rumour, buy on the fact works just as well, except it is used where bad news rather than good is expected. That is often why a company can come out with absolutely terrible results, yet the share price rises on the day.
Almost always, the nimblest of the professional investors have been selling for weeks (or going short, which is the process of selling something you dont own in order to buy it back again more cheaply later) in anticipation of bad news, and then buying back in when it is incorporated into the price.
It is this process of digesting news and building it into the price which underlies the short-term movement of stock market prices. That is why brokers are always comparing prices and expected earnings for various companies, and have distilled them into a price earnings ratio (P/E) which is the standard yardstick for comparing one share to another.
Its function is just like those price per 100g comparisons we see on supermarket shelves which tell us whether the large 3 jar of coffee is in fact cheaper than the small 1.25 one.


Research

Before you buy shares in a company, you want to be sure that what you're getting is going to be a good home for your hard-earned cash. There is no better way to do that than to give it a basic financial check-up.
Here are just a few of the vital statistics that you should measure to give you some confidence in your investment:
Prospective price earnings ratios
Forecast earnings
Earnings and price history
Price earnings/growth ratio
Dividend yields
Interest cover
Management shareholdings
Pension fund deficit
What makes the company tick

The crucial thing is to note down why you are buying shares in a particular company, and what you expect it to do. Is this stock intended as a solid defensive holding which won't fall even though it may not rise much? Is it intended to produce a long-term income, or are you planning to take advantage of a temporary price weakness for a quick gain?

Price earnings ratios
P/E ratios measure how much you have to pay per share for the earnings after tax that the share generates, and the lower the figure is, the less you are taking for granted.
A P/E of 10 means that you pay ten times as much as a year's earnings per share (EPS), while a P/E of 200, as sported by Cisco Systems at the height of the technology bubble, means you pay 200 times as much.
The crucial figure, however is not the historic P/E ratio, but the prospective one, based on expectations for the next results. Investors are willing to pay higher P/E ratios for shares, the faster the earnings are increasing.

Price earnings/growth ratio
Sometimes known as the PEG, this is a simple measure of value for money to aid comparisons, like those supermarket signs which show how much the hundreds of different breakfast cereals cost per 100 grams.
Without it, we are in a little trouble. A company trading at 10 times next year's earnings is not necessarily 'cheaper' than one trading at 20 times, it all depends on the profit growth.
The PEG rule of thumb is that you should not pay a P/E higher than the percentage rate of growth in EPS. So for a firm consistently increasing profits by 20 per cent it would be fair to pay a P/E of 20, and for 10 per cent earnings growth, a P/E of 10.
Dividend yield
The dividend yield is merely the annual dividend divided by the current share price.
Reinvested dividends form the core of long-term share market returns, so you need to have clear growth objectives if you decide to buy a share that pays no dividend or merely a low one.
Interest cover
Debt has sunk many a good company, and it is important to know firstly how much any candidate firm has, but more importantly, how it can pay the interest charges.
We should steer clear if a company's operating profits do not cover expected interest charges at least four times. Debt is obviously a greater worry when profits are contracting.
Likewise, finding out how much debt is fixed rate and how much floating will be important depending on whether rates are generally rising or falling.

Management shareholdings
Putting your money where your mouth is the crux of this point. If directors are actively buying shares in their own company, that is undeniably a positive sign (though they may still be wrong).
Sales of shares by directors are harder to read, because diversification of holdings is very much an issue even in successful firms, and there are only a few windows during the year when such sales can take place.
Nevertheless, consistent selling does hit share prices and we should be aware of it. Any website with a regulatory news feed will show changes in stakes by directors. The site www.directorsdeals.co.uk offers a comprehensive subscription service.

What makes a company tick
Perhaps this should be first, not last. You need to understand how a company makes money, and what are the factors that will affect its trading performance.
While that doesn't mean poring over biotechnology or microchip trade journals, you should have a feeling for the business model. The closer you are to understanding the reasons why a particular firm's products and services are bought, the more likely you are to get a feeling for when it is going wrong.

I use Halifax share dealing, no monthly fees a flat commission rate, I would advise using a system your most comfortable with - sounds obvious but not every site has the same needs for everyone

To Billytrip,

Thank you for the time you've taken to explain sharedealing in more depth.
You obviously know much more than me so I have copied and pasted your script onto a word doc. so I can go through it later - slowly....

Out of interest - how long do you spend researching a company before you invest and what % of decisions you make turn out to be right. When I say right I mean investments which either made you money or broke even (I consider break even a sucess in an enviroment where you can easily lose money). In fact my motto is first try not to lose money - second try to earn money!

I have a list of around 40 companies that I compile from news items, the FT and just personal exposure to them, I add and take off companies depending on there movements (i.e if it has been dropping for months with no positive news then it gets "relegated" from my list etc. Split between all industries.

Researching - well I am fortunate enough to work as a marketing specialist so part of my full time job involves researching companies so I use some of this knowledge for sharedealing, If I didnt work where I do then the amount of research would depend on:

* The amount invested (for 1k I would not do as much as say 5k)
* The Company and its share price
* Analyst ratings/Targets etc

Hypothetically speaking if you could afford to buy the whole company outright, would you? becasue if you wouldnt spend x Million on the whole company then dont spend your x Thousands on shares.

What % has turned out right? - without cursing myself over 9 Trades since October last year when I started, I have 100% record with an average 27% return. - Mainly due to a spreadsheet I created tracking prices and targets etc and BUY and SELL guides + other infomation.

I have 3 rules

* Never buy on someone elses advise, unless you research yourself
* Always set a BUY and SELL price and always stick to it
* Never panic BUY or Sell, just ride out any fluctuations in price

Good advice.
I wonder if you have Celltech (CCH) on your list. I have some shares in this company because I thought their prospects were beginning to improve. However after their results posting yesterday the city would appear not to agree with that!
What are your views - if any on this company. I would really appreciate your opinion. (Down 4.5% yesterday, down 1.5% today)

Yours nervously.....

* Always set a BUY and SELL price and always stick to it

If you invest in a company and accept that its share price is in part a reflection of the fundamentals of that company, the fundamentals of that company may change while you are holding its shares. This could happen, for example, if the company posts better than expected results or benefits from substantial new business where the value of that contract or business is known, and therefore it's effect on future results and the value of the business as an ongoing concern can be calculated.

In these circumstances you still may wish to stick to your pre-set exit price and then go looking for a new opportunity, but there can be value in staying with what you are in, because X% growth in your current investment is worth more than X% in another stock, due to trading costs and spread.

It's worth re-assessing your holdings on a regular basis. Asking yourself the question "would I buy it today?" can be helpful.

* Never panic BUY or Sell, just ride out any fluctuations in price

Although... if everyone seems to be panic selling, and you can't work out why, be extremely wary. What do they know that you don't? :-)

Your are right of course, but each to his/her own methods

I set the sell price becasue if I keep holding on to a rising share and get too greedy and it suddenly falls it would be annoying to say the least, but of course you do need a degree of flexibility as things change in the share market everyday. Buy price I just set as I have missed out on low stocks before as I kept expecting it to keep going down and it didnt.

The panic buy/sell, well I made the mistake of doing it once with GWP and the price dropped 15-20% the next day - fortunatly it went up eventually to a profit but you have to learn from your initial mistakes.

To Guysands - I do have Celltech on my list, up until february this year they were tipped buy four Analysts as BUY - ING Financial, Lehmann, SG Cowan and UBS Warburg, so some pretty big hitters there - Have now heard that their target price has been slashed to 300p by Panmure!

This may sound silly - apologies - but I have 2 ask: Day trading/Spreads vs. swing vs. "going long" (mmm ... traders sound like a kinky bunch 2 me) - my question - when people talk about loosing their "shirts" and closing a "loosing" trade asap, I assume it's about ANY trade, be it 1 min after buy, 2 days or even 2 years after purchase - if things go "south"? What confuses me is the following - if I'm DAY TRADING (sweaty palms & all) and things go south, am I obliged to take action THAT day, as a day trader, or can I B-com a SWINGER for awhile on that stock, hoping for a recovery that my research may indicate.

If U trade daily - semantically, U're a DAY TRADER - if U let it lie awhile - U're a swinger & if U let it lie a few months, well, U're either a "trade-wimp" or U've got a life (with loads of dosh) - I'm not sure - (I'm both wimp and lifeless, bankrupt and a newbie to top!!)

I just don't understand - apart from spreadbetting, or the company goes into liquidation, etc. etc, (mmm, all those etc's.) how U can loose everything - unless of course, DAY TRADING forces you to close your position by 16h30 - daily. Does it?

OK, OK, I can hear the roar of laughter - I just don't get it. If it's not favourable to sell, well, the glass if half full, it will recover, even if it takes 10 years. Let the stock lie and move on to new ground - am I being naive?

To make money (& release cash) you have to buy & sell. If your shares are going down, you cash in taking the loss, and then try and make back the loss on new purchases. The problem comes when you continue making losses, and the pot get smaller and smaller......until it just disappears.

A friend, was left a portfolio by her mother a few years ago. Over the last 3 years as the shares dropped in price, the broker keep selling and buying to try and recover the losses, but now there is nothing left. The portfolio used to produce a reasonable income, but the money moved from high yielding shares to high risk shares. (I think panic set in, and he decided to go high risk in the desperate hope the market recovered - but instead the many of the companies just went bust or got wiped out!)

I have quite a bit of money tied up in loss making shares. The ones paying dividends, I'm ignoring as they should one day recover. So far I've been short of cash to invest, twice twice this year, as I've seen a share drop to a price I believe I can make a quick profit so I have taken a loss from a share that I don't get any dividends to provide cash flow.

prometheus - you don't have to close positions at 16:30. If you are (day) trading on margin then you can lose more than you have. For example, if you put 10K into a stock (actual shares) and it declines such that a week later it's worth 7K you've lost 3K. If you believe it will go back up maybe you ride it out. If you're trading on a 2K margin buying 10K of CFDs (for example) then you lose all your 2K plus you owe your CFD provider an additional 1K (if it gets that far) - at the point you run out of cash or whatever your provider requires you to have liquid in your account you get margin-called.

Also, if you are long on a stock you pay interest to your CFD provider (they are basically - theoretically at least - lending you the additional 8K) so you can't necessarily sit on what you hold for months waiting to break even - you're chasing an ever-rising target. (If you are short you get paid interest though - in principle).

You may need to look into some of these issues further but I hope that provides an outline explanation.

THanX 4 that ... I get it - it's about preservation of a "scarce resource" - my booty - without, I cannot play - unless I win the lottery!! :-)>

here's a scenario:

I want to annul my bankruptcy and have loaned 20k from a family member who took out a loan - which I repay monthly, BUT short 5k and this is due in 2 weeks time.

Question:
- Can I trade as a discharged bankruptee (awaiting annullment)?
- The "right" stock obviously would be one that BE's + offers an additional 25% return.
- Would U do it?

I would certainly invest in a stock that gave a guaranteed 25% return in two weeks, whether I was bankrupt or not. After all, if you work it out that means that if you continued to invest for a whole year at the same rate of return you would have 331 times your original capital at the end of the year, and at the end of two years, 110,000 times... And those sort of returns just being a first time investor! This trading malarkey certainly sounds like a sure deal.

;-> wouldn't this B nice! But my wife won't let me risk the 20k to make 25k. I don't blame her. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush (mmm?!)

What I really wanted to know is if it is possible to turn 20k into 25k over 2 or 3 weeks of trading. Or R the risks/expectations 2 high?

Miller & Moglianni (Nobel Prize recipients) postulated that U don't need 2 invest in more than 10 stocks in your portfolio to fully reflect the inherent risks that exist within the market. Which 10 stocks though, I guess, is the million dollar question. Especially if one is looking for a 25% return after breaking even!! I wish I had a few years trading experience behind me - the timing is all wrong for me - don't U just hate that!

prometheus, I'm not sure you read my answer carefully enough :-) If you can turn 20k into 2,200 million over two years, then it is likely that you will be able to turn 20k into 25k in two weeks, since it is the same rate of return.

Hi Kayak - thanQ 4 u're response - I'm not sure I understand u're logic or whether u're being facetious (ironic) - no matter ;-)>

I just picked a random share - STF: it opened at 28p and closed at 39p today - investing 20k, by my reckoning I'd have a kewl 7k profit for the day, turning my 20k into 27k in 8 hours. (71k shares; BE = 28.1p)

Of course it's not gauranteed that a share move 10p in a day - but it does and has 'appened.

Wot is it I'm not getting? R my calculations incorrect? Apologies 4 all the dumb questions - I just want 2 get it right - theoretically, B4 I start trading.

I would say don't even THINK about buying anything, (company shares I mean), for at least a few months; no matter how much you're itching to join 'the game'. But DO click onto here as often as you can, just read and read. Also, get the 'Shares' mag every week and maybe 'Investors Chronicle' too, again just read and read. Don't flap about most of it going straight over your head either, more and more will become clearer over a short time. Make posts on here and pester folk, they seem a decent lot. Just force yourself to hold on to your cash mate, or sure as eggs is eggs, it will vanish just as you're getting the hang of things. There are a few free seminars you can visit too, you'll find them advertised in the mags and on here too, let them show you a little about charting. If you ever find yourself wondering about a little 'flutter' on a spread bet... slap yourself really hard and say ten hail Mary's. Consider a 'self select ISA' and deal from 'inside' that.
Trust no one. Ever. If you fancy a share, (AFTER you've studied a while), set up your own 'stockwatch' on this site and see how your judgement would have made you a fortune, or lost the lot, you can easily watch a dozen or stocks pretty comfortably. I would urge you to learn charting, just the basics, cos no matter HOW much 'fundamental' analysis you do, there is always a 'good' or better time to buy.. and most CERTAINLY to SELL. We could all spout pages and pages on here, but so will you before long. Finally, don't fall in love with anything you buy, it wont love you when it's bankrupted you. If it's going south, sell the bugger. Good luck.

Prometheus

"...What I really wanted to know is if it is possible to turn 20k into 25k over 2 or 3 weeks of trading. Or R the risks/expectations 2 high?..."

Yes it's certainly possible. Yesterday I made a 6.9% gain (after costs) in under 3 hours on ARK during its rapid afternoon surge. I staked 10,000 and collected 10,690. Some astute experienced traders will have captured far more of the available gain and played with even bigger stakes. But the risks in doing that are extremely high (especially if trying to close out late on a Friday afternoon when brokers are busy and sellers are everywhere. I usually shy away from Friday afternoon trades - all the more so ahead of a long weekend).

The nms (Normal Market Size) on ARK is high enough to be able to trade sizeable quantities. Be very very wary of stocks where the nms is being relaxed when you buy - allowing you to easily acquire a bigger quantity than normally allowed - but is rigidly enforced when you come to sell, preventing an easy exit. It happens all the time.

And you have to allow for the possibility that - no matter how confident of your position you may be - it can (and sometimes will) go horribly wrong. "All of us live in a novel, and none of us do the writing. Just offstage there are grim old men planning to cut off the lighting" (Doris Lessing, I think. Mixing her metaphors). Share trading is a game of snakes and ladders in which some of the snakes are invisible. So never ever risk more than you can afford to lose. You can easily bankrupt yourself within a day. I've seen it happen.

Remember that shares are constantly passed around from sellers to buyers - like a huge daily game of pass-the-parcel. Nobody wants to be holding the parcel when it comes undone - but somebody will be. There are always losers - the winners require there to be. As a beginner you will be heavily outnumbered by players who know the game better than you do. Take care. And never assume that your computer - or that of your broker - or money-am price feeds - will be working at the crucial moment you need them to be!

Hi Chrissie, I had a similar sized stake to begin trading with some time ago about 3yrs ago and I'm pleased to say it is now worth considerably more at about 17k all profits made in the last 18mths. Initially I traded on researched tips & news from daily & weekly papers & magazines, web sites such as this (there are a whole host of them - all informative)and bulletin boards. Further research in the fundamentals of each company and Multitex Broker Analysis & Consensus partially confirmed the tips and news articles. However, losses where greater than modest gains because generally the tips & news items about growth stocks are reporting on events that have already happened and near the cyclic peak or that rapid growth may happen sometime in the future (but when and if and how reliable ????).

The main quest to trade on reliable news and make a profit requires some technical analysis & charting yourself but to do this manually is very tedious & time consuming. There are at least 2750 Plc's listed on the FTSE & AIM indexes and to pinpoint the trading opportunities is somewhat elusive unless you have a technical analysis and charting TOOL in the way of a computer software program to help you make the right decisions of when to BUY or SELL.

The software tool, Metastock and End of Day data stream, (Open, High, Low, Close mid prices & Volume) I purchased to do the job took me about 3mths to get the hang of the power of the built-in proven professional fund managers technical analysis systems, indicators and charting tools and has since disciplined me to make within 95% accuracy all my BUY & SELL decisions. Hence the reason my portfolio of shares in UK equities is rocketing. In the main I use a rigid set of day trading rules and 3 technical analysis indicators to make my decisions with. The indicators I use are the MACD (Moving Average Convergence Divergence) RSI (Relative Strength Index) and Bollinger Band indicator of the RSI indicator.

The Metastock EOD version daily downloads the data of approx. 6000 equities and tradable financial instraments to my computer which takes about 4 minutes. I then launch a built-in Explorer which then trawls through & tests all the equities in about 6 minutes to then give a list of equities that fit the criteria and gives accurate BUY / SELL signals. Once I have this list I then spend about 1hr to do a bit further research on the internet on news and fundamentals with complete confidence in my decisions for the following day of trading of what & when to BUY or SELL and make a profit.

Good luck in your trading.

prometheus - I don't blame your wife. My late father traded all his life, and it provided a very good income for a lot of his life. But he did almost lose a lot of what he did not spend a couple of times, and each time, my mother had to bail him out from money she put aside for herself. This all happened over the 40 years they were together, but my mother only remembers the losses and not that for more years than not, it gave her & us a very good life style.

You are obviously itching to have a go, so why don't you compromise. Just invest a small amount, say 5,000 into 2 or 3 shares. Worse case - you had a go, you still have the rest - but don't touch it the rest - no matter what happens. If you manage to make any profits - you can use this amount to start your new portfolio, returning the 5,000. If you manage to do 25% or more you will have over 1,000 to start your own portfolio without risking any other money.

Prometheus, sorry for not spelling it out in greater detail, but I'll try again. It is perfectly possible to make 20% in a single day, let alone two weeks. However, you have to be lucky enough to choose the right share, put your money in at the right time, and take it out at the right time. This looks easy if you look at a chart of the share with hindsight. "Well, I would have bought there and sold there."

If it were actually likely for you to make 20% in two weeks, by definition you would be able to carry that on for many months, which (compounded) would yield the sums I was talking about. Do you know anyone who has grown his pot in that way over two years? Do you think it likely? No? Well then, it is just as unlikely to make 20% in two weeks.

It is possible, but unlikely. If, as a beginner, you invest an amount of money for two weeks 100 times in succession, you are much more likely to lose money for most of those attempts, and gain 20% only a few times at best. Unfortunately unless you invest in a raging bull market the losses are likely to be big enough to wipe out a lot of your pot, particularly at the beginning when you are still learning. The chance of you making 20% in your first two weeks is pretty small.

THanX 4 ALL the brill advice - my wife and I remain intrigued and surprised by the inherent philosophy of this BB and it's participants - given the competitive world we live in - dare I say it, U lot seem to challenge each other to SUCCEED - "we dare U to make money - AND ere's the downside risk I've learned - the expensive way - and I'll share it for free!" Keep it up - and thanX!

The more I read/research, the more I get the sense that the "rules" are in favour of the "house" and am reminded of the time when a French policeman pulled me over for going thru a red-light in Paris (which I never saw - 'onest guv) and reprimanded me: "U must B care-fool".

Cognitive mapping of all the advice from the different BB posters is giving up some interesting results. Although intuitive, one may say, the groupings arising have surprised me - which is good (learning takes place). Kayaks last post has given rise to a new grouping - "reality check"!

Each poster, in his or her own way, defines a new set of boundaries/constraints, in an unconstrained market environment - especially considering super computers/bots and multi-million pound traders. Information ISN'T PERFECT, and the markets DO seem to be influenced by a small amount of PLAYERS - so much for the theory!!

I've been a statistician for years and quite comfortable with graphs, software and PC's - I've got an MBA - so reasonably comfortable with strategic management and the World of Business and the World of Management (WOB/WOM) - but I have to tell U, (and judging by your sound advice - this is normal) the stock market has my head spinning - the process, the software - especially real-time, the background company research, etc. just blows my mind - ney matter!

I'd hazard a guess and say that the BEST Day Trader HAS 2 B a woman. Men cannot multi-task as well as a woman can (4 my wifes benefit!) Maybe it's just me - but this whole malarky does seem to just have a HINT of FUN in it. INIT?

Fun? - yes. Been doing it for nearly six years P, and it's the most fun job I ever had.

As long as the known hazards are properly allowed for. And as long as one also makes allowance for there being some unknown hazard one has not yet learned of.

It's a game. And like all the best games there is always more to learn. And always possible to get slaughtered if concentration is allowed to flag or if life's various distractions impede.

So set out a business plan that includes the facility for stepping aside - taking time out - whenever things are not comfortable. Make "doing nothing" one of the planned positions - otherwise you end up trading just because you feel that non-action is a fault. Design-in some pit stops. Share trading is one of those rare businesses in which one has no employees and no customers to worry about - so no excuse not to include time out.

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