can we start the ball rolling on sb firms and cfd firms giving them marks out of 10. spreads etc. also min size openings etc.
this was not my idea the suggestion was from jules and i think we should give it a try.

I use Fins. They're ok as spreadbet co's go, but they skew their prices in the direction of the trend, and the site goes down occasionally.
I also have an account with city index. Great website, and first class customer service, but their spreads are too wide.
I've also used IG index. They're ok I suppose.
Not too much between them to be honest. They all catch you with skews and spreads, but they're not there for us to make from the markets, but in it for their company profits.
Out of 10:
IG 7
Fins 7
City 6

Thanks agin to all contributors...

A few more questions on the subject of CFD's/SB's spreads and Interest charged.. again..if anyone can help

Is my understanding correct that the spreads in CFD's are as 'close' OR the 'same' as spreads in spread bets, or is there always a difference even if I had 1 CFDa/c and 1 SB a/c with the same Broker...e.g CMC?

Also what is costs wise better ref to CFD a/c, a firm which charges 'Commission' on the execution or a Firm which charges Interest on a daily basis? do all firms charge same amount of % interest or does it differ between Brokerages and is this negotiable??

And while on the subject does the interest rate Charged, change with Monthly Interest rate changes?

or Is that totally another Ball game and bears No resemblance..sorry if that sounds stupid and Dohhh...but i'm learning and want to make sure I understand and there are no hidden surprises...


Many thanks if someone knows answers to these...

Aslo Croc do you know the best book on CFD trading in the UK?

I use Fins and hve no complaints other than those mentioned by Zoltar.

One very favorable thing they do quite often, to my surprise, is
that they execute stops with discretion.

If a price has hit your stop then turned favorable again they
often let the trade continue. Now THAT is good service.
I should add that it doesn't always happen that way but I can
say they have never stopped me out at aything other than the price
I've specified and I don't use guaranteed stops.

It could of course be that my piddling little trades wouldn't be
any big loss to them anyway but that would be cynical, wouldn't it?

Zoltar,re Fins, have you tried refreshing using the little 'refresh server'
icon? That often gets things rolling again.

I gave up on Fins some months ago because the web site was too flakey at that time. I would hope that they have it sorted by now.

The general rule is that when trying to catch small movements in share prices you use CFDs because they have narrower spreads. Dealers that charge commision usually have the tightest spreads and are favoured for this type of thing. If you are trying to catch larger price movements it is better to use spreadbetting. The larger spreads will nibble at winnings and increase losses, but there is no tax to pay on winnings and no paperwork for the taxman. If you try to trade small price movements using spreadbetting or some CFD companies you will be defeated by the spreads.

BobP some interesting points u have made..thank you...when you say nibble...

lets take BT for example...


BT SET PRICE shows:180.5-181 What is your definition of nibbling, my understanding would be to Buy (or go long CFD spread given maybe 181/181.5, sell at 186 or around that mark...?

For most tight spreaded FTSE stocks what would you say is correct/fair quote for (BT as example again) CFD spread given by Broker, using example above, would be a 'quarter' or 'half' point above quoted SETS price? I presume it would be a quarter, of course If I am not happy with spread I can just say..No..

I find nibbling risk high at this stage of trading, just my opinion, I know traders do that all the time, some very successfully I might add, need to gain a lot more experience to do that kind of trading...but I am learning, and want to be confident that trade I make is my best...at least a higher % of success, than failure..

Large price movemtns ur referring to the likes of volitile ups/down swings...(not wide spreads)

I've done a number of fantasy ones with good results overall.


Sorry to be a drag on a FRiday nite...!


Many Thanks always...

Jules99.

anybody got any comments on spreadex site or if they are using them what is thir opinion.
rgds
zarif

Hope you all had a good weekend.
Back in action for the week
good luck.

ps: any news on spreadex????

rgds
zarif

dow and footsie going southbound today before going north. can u suggest any levels. top and bottom
rgds
zarif


has anybody tried :
the indexking trade tips??

CANTOR INDEX SEEMS VERY GOOD. VERY HELPFUL STAFF FOR BEGINERS LIKE MYSELF. TIGHTISH SPREADS, GOOD WEBSITE. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?...

This is a great thread BTW...

Any body used IFX for trading CFD's/SB, I know they are owned by someone else or they have another name does anybody remember what?

Am I right in saying I'm the only one trading via telephone???

hey whats funny...??

Ta.

Jules99.

no- you are not the only one.
Spreadex have a live monitor on their site which is not in sync with the market and you have to ring them all the time.

IG index - the site went down-last week and had to deal by "dog and Bone"

rgds
zarif

no- you are not the only one.
Spreadex have a live monitor on their site which is not in sync with the market and you have to ring them all the time.

IG index - the site went down-last week and had to deal by "dog and Bone"

rgds
zarif

The dow was down and stagnant yesterday.
I think today it will see a retracement towards the 94hunderds levels.What are your views.???

rgds
zarif

how is your trades on the dow doing today????
rgds
zarif

jules99

Been away for a few days. The spreads of SB companies vary a lot from one company to another, and also depend on what you are trading. Obviously there is no point in trying to profit on a small (say) 1% change with a spread of 1% or more. Even with a 0.5% spead you lose a large chunk of your gains, or greatly boost losses. You stand a much better chance of success with the very tight spreads of CFDs, and it is worth paying tax on the profits, because you should actually make some profits.

If you are going for larger changes of perhaps 10% or more, a wide spread is still not good, but you can live with it. The larger changes can be due to trading volatile stocks or taking a medium to long term stance. The maths are the same either way. Although you lose slightly on the wider spreads, there is no tax to pay on SBing. This more than compensates for the losses on the wider spread. I do not do very short term trading, but those that do suggest that a broker charging commission gives very tight speads and is the best bet.

BobP,

Thanks for your comments...useful as always, I will go ahead with CFD's mind made up...may join the likes of CMC first, and try a few medium sized trades FTSE350 and take it from there...

Money management and decision making skills have a greater play if you are to suceed very well..

Zarif,
may join you down the line on the Dow/Ftse...would need to do my research first...that web site was interesting however, not sure If am experienced to comment as Not my area of expertise...would be interested if anyone follows such methodology..

Ta.

Jules.

Are we long on the dow today as i reckon we are nortbound today
rgds
zarif

Afternoon everyone:
An intersting article that i came across on my sorties in cyberspace.

Re: The 50% retracement article for the dow:

That level represents the half-way point between the all-time high of 11,722 reached by the Dow ($INDU: news, chart, profile) and its low last year of 7,286. The blue-chip average has been hovering around this level for several weeks now, closing modestly above it on some occasions and below it on others before ending Tuesday's action at 9,576.

As Jack Adamo of Jack Adamo's Insiders Plus newsletter put it recently: "According to Dow Theory, when a bear market rally makes up more than half the decline from the previous top, it is more likely to test the old high than the old low. Obviously then, that halfway mark is an important juncture."

Richard Russell, editor of Dow Theory Letters, adds: "I'm interested to see whether the Dow can pull up and away from 9,504, or whether 9,504 will act as a 'magnet,' and in the end be too much for the Dow to overcome."

I nevertheless have my reservations about this 50 percent retracement principle, for several reasons.

First, it's not clear that either Charles Dow, for whom the Theory is named, or William Peter Hamilton, who spelled out and interpreted the Theory in a series of Wall Street Journal editorials in the first three decades of the last century, ever mentioned this principle.

That's according to Bill James, a Sacramento-based investor and author who has devoted much of his life to studying the Dow Theory. James has been working on a book about the Dow Theory for 20 years, and not only has he not found any reference in Dow's or Hamilton's writings to such a principle, he believes that they would have "quickly discarded" it as being "too much in conflict" with the rest of their Theory.

Apparently, the 50 percent principle was instead introduced by E. George Schaefer, who published a newsletter in the middle years of the last century by the name of Dow Theory Trader.

On one level, of course, it shouldn't matter whether this principle is or isn't part of the Dow Theory. The key question is whether it is a helpful market-timing tool. And I'll get to that in a minute.

But it is important to be clear and precise about what any theory entails, for without that precision it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to judge its effectiveness in a scientific way. For example, if someone told you that the Dow Theory has a poor track record, you wouldn't know whether the Theory that was tracked included the 50 percent principle or not.

All in the interpretation

In any case, the key question is whether the 50 percent principle is effective. Answering this is not as straightforward as you might imagine, however. It depends crucially on how it is interpreted.

For example, Adamo's formulation of the 50 percent principle is true, but only trivially so. Even if the stock market's movements were entirely random, the 50 percent principle would still appear to be true.

After all, if I'm closer to the market's high than to its low, which would be the case once it has retraced 50 percent of the previous bear market, random volatility alone would make it more likely that the market sooner makes it back to that high before making it back to that low.

To study the effectiveness of the 50 percent retracement principle, I therefore measured the stock market's performance following periods in which it had retraced 50 percent of a previous decline. If the principle is in fact useful, then the market should have performed better following such periods than following other bear market periods when it had failed to retrace 50 percent of its decline.

Here's how I designed my study:

First, I identified the 18 major bull market tops that occurred between 1896, when the Dow was created, and today.

Then for each of these market tops, I identified the first date thereafter at which the market had declined by 10 percent. I examined all trade days from then until the market subsequently surpassed its previous top.

Next, I segregated all these dates into two categories. The first contained those on which the Dow Industrials had retraced at least 50 percent of the decline from its previous top; the second contained all others.

For all dates in both categories, I measured the Dow's performance over subsequent periods lasting three, six and 12 months.

What I found was that the market performed almost exactly the same regardless of whether the 50 percent retracement principle had been satisfied.

On average, over the three months following trade dates that satisfied the 50 percent principle, the Dow gained 1.0 percent. Over the three months following trade dates that did not satisfy that principle, the blue-chip barometer on average gained 1.3 percent.

Though this difference is not statistically significant, notice that the market actually performed better following periods in which the 50 percent principle was not satisfied.

Consider next the difference over the subsequent six months. On average following periods in which the principle was satisfied, the Dow gained an average of 2.4 percent, as compared to 2.7 percent following periods in which the principle wasn't satisfied. This again is not statistically significant.

And over the subsequent 12 months, the average gain was identical for dates in both categories: 6.1 percent.

To be sure, my particular formulation of the 50 percent principle is not the only way of interpreting it. But the results of my study suggest that it may not be as effective a market-timing tool as many consider it to be.

And that, in turn, suggests that the 9,504 level may not be all that significant after all.

where is everybody today?

Hopefully it is going to be a LONG LONG DAY tomorrow
rgds
zarif

Dow on a downer again after kodak news.
Are we on Shorts again today????

rgds
zarif

Snoball, megabucks, jules99 and everyone look at this:

Buy Kleeneze at 150p or below.

Current mid price: 136p
bid/offer: 132/140
stop loss: 120
Limit buy: 150
Sector:retail
Target : 190
market cap: 64million
Epic Code: KLZ

What do you think?

rgds
zarif

lucky break yesterday as i had closed all the longs and was just about to do some more when it took a nose dive and i chased it with shorts and closed them outaswell.Today am just looking at the screen and waiting.

By the way guys what no of points do you put your stop losses at and if you dont mind what /pts do you go for etc

rgds
zarif

Dow Jones - Key levels & Trends 26 September 2003


Support breached

The Dow Jones had been up before it moved sharply lower at the close ending the session down 82 points at 9,344 and just a fraction above the long term Fibonacci support at 9,336.
Most importantly the index moved down through the support line and should the Fibonacci just below give way we're most likely heading for 9,000.

Resistance is 9,467 (the lower old support line) and then the upper resistance at 9,671.

The dow took a good dive last week and the footsie being around 4150-4175,What are your feelings for monday and the week. I think that it is going to ( the dow) fall to around 9100-9160 if the footsie doesniot recover.

Btw Fibronacci,ellion,gann -forget them as u say they are alright after the event best to follow the price and trust your instinct at times and u can see alot more happening in front of your eyes and react much faster than looking at charts all the time.

best rgds
zarif

Hello all:
Its Monday again and waiting for the Wall st to open in an hour (1400gmt).What do u think we have in store today. I think it will be volatile to say the least and if we look at the prices both long and shorts (hold them briefly )WAtch the PRICES -its possible to make money. Also because it being the end qtr today -likely to have an upward shift.

Let me know _ ps I have taken some anaesthetic in that it does not hit me that hard

rgds zarif

Brief summary from my travels:

Dow lost 30.88 points to close at 9,313.08. Dow's 14-Day Relative strength Index (RSI) is:41.72 and trending down. Dow is trading below 13-Day (9493), below 50-Day (9357), above 200-Day (8690) Moving Averages. Dow is trading with negative momentum. Dow's resistance levels are: 9429, 9550, 9699. Dow's support levels are: 9196, 9079, 8976.

Type High Low
52-Week 9,686.08 7,416.64
60-Day 9,686.08 8,997.11
21-Day 9,686.08 9,303.82

rgds
zarif

Ps: try a website gives 2 weeks free trial_ no credit cards needed.
www.sixer.com
let me know what u think of it

HEllo everyone:
The dow managed to scalp both on the longs and shorts yesterday(29/9/2003).So what are we going to do today. I think it is going to head south. On my browing i found the www.sixer.com site quoting a high %ctage of bulls on the dow for today.What are your opinions???

rgds to all
zarif.

Ps: jules99 - welldone on the dow yesterday, I was pretty certain you would get past the 9350 mark.

Levels to watch for in Tuesdays trading:


Dow Jones Industrial Average (INDU) support at 9200; resistance at 9758


S&P 500 (SPX) support at 995; resistance at 1050


Nasdaq Composite (COMP) support at 1780; resistance at 1950

Jules: Megabucks: Snoball:
I hope u are all shorting like mad and not in the longs at present. What a nosedive. I had 2 shorts and collected 114pts at 15/pt and 80pts at 12/pt. Now I am just looking at the screen and anaestehetised myself with my best freinds Chivas And Haigh.
Good luck
rgds
zrif

jules:
I have gone long at 9195 Dec Dow at 15/pt and it is at 9246 as i write at gmt 16.42 (14.00 eastern time usa 2pm) and i think it is going to have a lot more upside and am waiting.

Jules Are you Trading the Daily Dow WHich Expires at end of day trade (9pm), which can be costly at times when the market is uncertain.
You can trade the following month eg#: october november or december and hence giving more time for the trade to mature in case it doesnot happen on the day you can carry on.

let me know and happy hunting
rgds
zarif

Hi everybody,
Just closed the long from yesterday and taken out some shorts. I think shall fulfill both before the day is out as we had quite a down slide yesterday. Also this is the end of the 3rd qtr and beginning of the 4th qtr so be careful with your trades and watch the stoplosses etc. Generally if Sept was a good month then Oct seems to be a downer especialy in the opening weeks. So my personal scheme is Shorts will be the main operatives.
rgds
to all

well done jules I am sure u shall be giving us advise soon.
Ps the link on the live chart by megabucks is the best that i have come across so far.

rgds
zarif

Just shorted again at 9380 10$ a point...

What goes up must come down theory at play...lol

Hopefully not a DOW ...OOW..!

but WOW...!

Jules99...

what are thoughts...?

I Just closed a Long at 9360 - a 100pt gain at 15/pt. I have tagen a short from 9363 and now going to wait. I usually find that in the frequency of trades make more money in shorting than on longs. You are quite right what goes up must come down - unless it flies and sometimes the market does give us a kick in our egos.

best of luck in trading.
rgds
zarif

Watch out for the men in black!!!
rgds
zarif

CMC driving me nuts...errors by the hour today...what does one do???

only been with them 3 days...

not funny...

jules99.

Jules : CMC is not the same group of companies as Deal4free?? as there has been a tirade of anger against them as u can see below
rgds
zarif

tobin37 - 01 Oct'03 - 13:08


Anyone else using Deal 4 Free? Positions from yesterday seem to have dissapeared from their database. Been like that for 24 hours now. I keep getting fobbed off with various excuses.



LINZIMASON - 01 Oct'03 - 15:07 - 1 of 3


I was considering using them but decided against and gone to Share Crazy instead so I know just where I am. Sorry can't help.


zarif - 01 Oct'03 - 16:37 - 2 of 3 edit



While I came across this Whicjh I thought was quite witty and to the point regarding Deal4free.

Deal4free
Or perhaps more correctly DealMaybe?
Granted they have amongst the best prices and software but when it gets busy their platform goes down as much as Monica Lewinsky which when added to the fact that they do not have enough people to answer the phones makes it frustrating to be a customer. Anyway get voting and no doubt there will be a scramble as a number of institutions get their staff to sign up.

rgds
zarif


brianl - 01 Oct'03 - 16:56 - 3 of 3


d43 i wish it was i paid for yester days c**kup today kept waiting for dealer to respond

I'm trying them, I'll give them a month and take it from there, I am very detailed when I execute a trade as I write all items...time/dealer ref/which tel I used and so forth to ensure I have my facts...can't trust no one in this game...may even recoed my conversations...I trade by tele...that way I have control..

dow dropped to 9405...short kicked in at top..next short kicks in at 9382...waiting...in anticipation...

Jules99

Jules:
Re:CMC
If you are getting shoddy service then My opinion is dont wait amonth give them a kick in the Bullocks and get another company that can perform -it is stressful enough watching the trades instead of having to worry about if these idiots have got it right in the first place

rgds
zarif

Are y0ou long or short today???
I have got 1 long open and 2 shorts cghasing each other? I think it is going to take a nose dive today - Atleast i hope for mysake -Xstal Ball What thou sees today????

rgds
zarif

well used deal4 free for 3 years had many run ins with them over the years but now 100 % spread bet cant really complain fair enough you get requoted but hey its tax free tight rolling cash spreads and trading large amounts normally ok,and better than going out and digging the roads id give them 8/10.....nothing in life is perfect

Datai _ It is not whether it is taxfree or not that is in question_ The point is that they make a good living from the spread whether we win or lose doesnot matter _ it is the service that we the customers pay for that is an issue here.
rgds
zarif

are you a sb man or cfd??

there is a new SB out there who are about to launch . The demo site is good and the spreads are pretty competitive especially against IG City and Cantors

www.capitalspreads.com

Has anybody opened an account or contacted them yet??

I have applied and yesterday had aemail from them saying that they are having problems opening accounts on line etc _Teething problems I believe and I am sure once they are sorted out they should be good

are you long or short today????

rgds
zarif

just went short of the dow at 9439

rgds

d

had a gud day in the bund ...rode the sell off all the way down and got out only 10 off the bottom

Jules99: Snoball: Megabucks et al:

Just read below what i came across while trawling the net.Be careful of deal4free:


Deal4Free just took 800 out of my account and won't answer the phone?!!
Hey everyone

I can't believe what happened earlier on. My account with Deal4free has dropped from 800-odd quid down to 6.81, and I didn't even have a bet open!!!

What is going on here?! Anyone else had this problem?

I phone Deal4free and they said it was a 'software problem' (after having tried about four times and having them hang up on me). Naturally I was worried that they had gone bust and were shifting the money over to Tel Aviv or something...Apparently not...But I still haven't got the money back in my account yet.

They've admitted that the amount I specified should be in there, but the action hasn't been completed yet. Dodgy or what? I didn't go furious with them, but that is highly irregular. I'm surprised nobody else has posted about this today...


__________________
bmansfield

Afternoon everybody:
My prediction from the crystal ball is that Dow is going to inch up and than (hopefully) with the jobless figures and farmers figures come in should take a nose dive -around 9230 would be a great weekend
rgds
zarif

hi zarif was cfd but now sb i agree with what u said but i realise theres no such thing as a perfect broker dealer sb company .i worked the fx mkts for 14 years so like u i can c both sides of argument as 4 tax free i have no intrest in paying mr brown 40% each year for my trading ideas !,but ithink we could go all all day as to why we each trade with diff sb cfd companys and as 80% of cust lose money i am happy to stay where i am sitting very nicely in the 20 % that make money'
cheers

My god did you see the dow spike up about 60-80pts at 13.30gmt _ guys be very careful today as that can eat us up in one swoop. I am down 3000 at present.

rgds all zarif

The dow seems to be bobbing up/down the 9600 mark (wallst: dec ). I hope it does make atrack south now.

rgds
zarif

"Happy to meet- Sorry to Part -Happy to meet again on Monday "


Goodnight & God Bless to all
rgds
zarif

GoodMorning:
Its monday are we are going to do it all again!!!
What are your views for today????
rgds
zarif

mng zarif well i feel we will be once agin in 4 a volitile week for as much as the dow charged off like a headless chicken sanity eventually prevailed and it gave back a fair bit gold shed nearl 15 bucks friday afternoon....how fickle we r and added to that the airstrikes in syria and the mounting costs of a bill a month to keep the states in iraq i feel there is a bear squeeze just around the corner so i will stay short dow eurusd gold but at 370 71 there is good support so will happily bank profits if it starts to move up and see how we get on

I agree bear squeeze in the offing on the S&P /DOW any shorts hoping that late pull back on the S&P /Dow on Friday will start a follow through today, but to be honest who is hurting the most at the moment the Longs Only 6 -7 big figures off the highs or the shorts still 35-40 off the lows of last week.
Look for another push up to take out the last of the shorts.


Dillon

Hello everybody:
Hope you all had a good weekend.
What are you views on the dow today???
I reckon we should see a trip southbound and have got my shorts ready and hand on the trigger.
rgds
zarif

Evening all:
Dow went south to 9504 and then inched way up to 9622 where it is getting stiff push down and hopefully for us who are shorting should see it trail down. I think it is better to scalp afew points and keep banking while the going is good as the tend following up or down and our greed which is make-up tends do be our demise.
How do you think we are going to fare tomorrow?
rgds
zarif

hello everybody:
Are we ready for our battle with the Dow today????
Philosophical start to the day today with the following lines by Sun Tzu:

THE GENERAL WHO WINS A BATTLE MAKES CALCULATIONS IN HIS TEMPLE BEFORE
THE BATTLE IS FOUGHT.
THE GENERAL WHO LOSES A BATTLE MAKES BUT A FEW CALCULATIONS BEFOREHAND.THUS
DO MANY CALCULATIONS LEAD TO VICTORY AND FEW CALCULATIONS TO DEFEAT.

Good morning to you all

rgds
zarif

To: all the people who are participating:

Yes - Agreed with the idea from this very instant we only post our messages, ideas etc on :
THE DOW THREAD

and discontinue the other two

rgds

zarif

Since my deal4free whinge has guest-starred on this thread:

10 days have passed since Deal4Free's systems crashed. The position data has never reappeared for me on-line, even though dealers could see it on their system. The stop on the position got hit yesterday but I only found out today when I called the dealers. I have not received the promised email explaining the transaction. Throughout support people and dealers at D4F have been evasive, inaccurate or plain rude.

In contrast I have used IG Index's on-line system for months with no problems.

Tobin:
Deal4free or deal4dead more like it!!
Give them a kick in the bollocks i say.

rgds
zarif

ps: we are closing this thread and are now using only the Dow index thread-would love to have u on it and your comments aswell.
How do u tthink we are going to fare on the dow today.

I am with igindex aswell and there service is v.good but on the limited risk a/c.the spreadsc are heavy (18pts).What a/c do you have with them please let me know on the dow thread and i would like u to post your deal4 free msg on it for everyone to watch

thanking u in advance

I was wondering if i could resurrect this thread and ask any regular spread betters who they use? Im considering IG but have read about betting 1p so you cant loose much to start with. Can anyone direct me towards the best account out the now? Im not a novice nor an expert!

critch16 thats hard to answer it all depends on what markets you want to bet on i have an account with ig and spreadex. both have there + & - points .why not try 2 to see which suits you best.

Thanks for your response Woodie, i was mainly looking to trade Equities, spreadbetting on sports apart from Golf with my luck would be a silly move. Could you please elabourate on the + and - points please?

Thanks in advance

critch, finspreads are doing the 1p thing as part of their trading academy.

Thanks for that. I'll look into it cheers for now.

critch with ig you can trade 24 hours on the major indexs with spreadex they are only open 7am to 9-15pm. spreadex has special offers on ie spred free trades now and again there are other + & - but you will only know what suits you best once you have started trading hope that helps