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IS PARTY GAMING A GOOD BET (PRTY)
moneyplus
- 27 Jun 2005 18:57
This one hit the markets running today. Despite negative publicity it was well supported so I jumped in for a small holding--anyone else joining in?? I am hoping for a good run up before the shorters get going.
jimmy b
- 27 Jun 2005 19:35
- 2 of 346
I phoned my broker at 8.15 and was quoted 125 1/2 ,its finished up nearly 129p, after all the negative publicity i decided against it,,huge amount of trading though..
Fundamentalist
- 27 Jun 2005 19:38
- 3 of 346
moneyplus
my thoughts fwiw
there may be some short term upside but to me for the longer term the risks far outweigh the potential reward
I am someone who plays poker online regularly and can see why party is a popular site. However, there is large potential downside in the future based on US govt policy as to whether online gambling is legal - currently it is deemed to be illegal but not policed. Party receive 87% of their revenues from US citizens - if this avenue of revenue and profit is lost then the company will be but a shadow of its current self. To me there are two possible ways this can go long term:
1) The US govt crackdown on their citizens gambling on-line - they have already started by putting pressure on the likes of paypal who do not allow money tfrs to gambling sites. They are also rumoured to be starting to put the pressure onto the banks and credit card companies.
2) The US govt decide to legalise online gambling. If this were to happen then the competition to party will increase overnight with several very big players, especially the casinos who would be likely to bring out their own sites. They would have the ability to link the games to real live games in the casino and offer "comps" to the online players like they do the "live" players. If this were to happen then party could well get squeezed out of the market completely. Ultimately the barriers to entry for competitors are low - the value is the brand name and its customers -the software can effectively be bought off the shelf now.
Based on this, party will only be successful while the US govt continue to dither in either enforcing or changing their policy in this area. Until then, they are likely to generate substantial amounts of cash.
My other concern is to why they have floated - the cash was not needed to help grow the business, it is just to enable the founders to take some money out of the business - would they be doing this if they thought the companys prospects were going to get better?
Long term i think this is a share i would be happy to short but am currently on the sidelines until the price has settled down and found a trading range - i wouldnt be surprised to see it rise over the coming weeks but personally dont see it being a ftse100 company in a few years time.
my thoughts fwiw
there may be some short term upside but to me for the longer term the risks far outweigh the potential reward
I am someone who plays poker online regularly and can see why party is a popular site. However, there is large potential downside in the future based on US govt policy as to whether online gambling is legal - currently it is deemed to be illegal but not policed. Party receive 87% of their revenues from US citizens - if this avenue of revenue and profit is lost then the company will be but a shadow of its current self. To me there are two possible ways this can go long term:
1) The US govt crackdown on their citizens gambling on-line - they have already started by putting pressure on the likes of paypal who do not allow money tfrs to gambling sites. They are also rumoured to be starting to put the pressure onto the banks and credit card companies.
2) The US govt decide to legalise online gambling. If this were to happen then the competition to party will increase overnight with several very big players, especially the casinos who would be likely to bring out their own sites. They would have the ability to link the games to real live games in the casino and offer "comps" to the online players like they do the "live" players. If this were to happen then party could well get squeezed out of the market completely. Ultimately the barriers to entry for competitors are low - the value is the brand name and its customers -the software can effectively be bought off the shelf now.
Based on this, party will only be successful while the US govt continue to dither in either enforcing or changing their policy in this area. Until then, they are likely to generate substantial amounts of cash.
My other concern is to why they have floated - the cash was not needed to help grow the business, it is just to enable the founders to take some money out of the business - would they be doing this if they thought the companys prospects were going to get better?
Long term i think this is a share i would be happy to short but am currently on the sidelines until the price has settled down and found a trading range - i wouldnt be surprised to see it rise over the coming weeks but personally dont see it being a ftse100 company in a few years time.
wilbs
- 27 Jun 2005 22:06
- 4 of 346
Blimey, the Group Operations Director is called Anurag Dikshit and the Chairman is called Michael Jackson!!! What does that tell you???
Im supprised Bubbles the monkey is not the Finance Director.
Im supprised Bubbles the monkey is not the Finance Director.
driver
- 27 Jun 2005 22:51
- 5 of 346
stockbunny
- 28 Jun 2005 09:31
- 6 of 346
Good info Fundy - thanks for posting your thoughts, I had
looked at it but not actually bought, but the factors you
detail above certainly shed light on some potentially dark
corners.
:>)
looked at it but not actually bought, but the factors you
detail above certainly shed light on some potentially dark
corners.
:>)
moneyplus
- 28 Jun 2005 11:01
- 7 of 346
Thanks Fundy--I don't think I'll stay in too long! cheers Wilbs and Driver.
dandu71 - 28 Jun 2005 12:32 - 8 of 346
I don`t understand how we are able to buy shares when the issue date is Thursday? I`m in 2000 @ 133
Fundamentalist
- 28 Jun 2005 13:13
- 9 of 346
Dandu
the shares were officially listed and started trading yesterday at 8am
the shares were officially listed and started trading yesterday at 8am
syd443s - 29 Jun 2005 09:54 - 10 of 346
It seems bizarre but one of the biggest companies on the European side of the Atlantic is banned from operating on the American side.
Partygaming, the internet poker company that floated on the London Stock Exchange this week, is believed to have a worth greater than many blue chip companies - but US law-makers are adamant that it breaks the law.
Online gambling is banned in America, so Partygaming which was set up by an American is based in Gibraltar with no assets in the US.
Its prospectus concedes: "In many countries, including the United States, the group's activities are considered to be illegal by the relevant authorities."
But, it adds the crucial clause: "Partygaming and its directors rely on the apparent unwillingness or inability of regulators generally to bring actions against businesses with no physical presence in the country concerned".
In other words, even if Partygaming were illegal, what could the authorities do?
Compulsive pleasure
Not that Americans are exactly shunning the website.
It's estimated that nine out of every 10 of its dollars last year came from the US.
At $600m those revenues are hefty and generated a profit of $350m in 2004.
When the dotcom bubble burst five years ago, not everything was destroyed - online gambling quietly thrived.
And then noisily thrived.
Partygaming was founded by Californian lawyer Ruth Parasol, who is now based in Gibraltar.
She teamed up with an Indian software engineer who designed a programme that would allow thousands of people anywhere in the world to simultaneously take part in internet poker games.
Their timing was impeccable.
Partypoker exploded as a game in 2002, driven partly by television coverage of big money contests with cameras under a glass table so viewers could see the players' cards.
It was a compulsive, vicarious pleasure that hooked multitudes of prospective customers.
Organised crime
Every estimate now predicts that growth will be phenomenal, perhaps from an annual billion dollars spent globally today to 10 times that amount in five years.
American poker players go online regardless of US law
Much will turn on the law in its biggest market, the United States.
The Interstate Wireline Act was passed nearly 50 years ago in an effort to stop organised crime rigging gambling.
Under it, "wire communication" of bets was outlawed on "sporting events or contests".
Legal disagreement
But poker clearly isn't a "sporting event" so is it a "contest" as defined by the law?
American lawyers are divided.
In 2001, a judge in Louisiana ruled that the act "does not prohibit internet gambling on a game of chance", a ruling that was sustained by a higher court.
Other states take a different view.
The Attorney General of New York, Eliot Spitzer, pursued finance houses that allowed their services be used to pay for online gambling - so firms based in New York have now blocked the use of their credit cards for online gambling.
Laughing all the way to the bank
So state law varies while the Justice Department maintains that federal law is unambiguously opposed to on-line gambling.
On top of that, the World Trade Organisation may have something to say about it.
In the past it has ruled that American attempts to criminalise some companies offering online gambling from the Caribbean broke rules of fair trade.
And some American companies based in Las Vegas may now be worried that they cannot get involved in what is a very lucrative expansion of their business from real casinos to virtual ones.
They have assets in the US which the authorities could come after if they break American law, so they are tied to real bricks-and-mortar casinos on terra firma rather than imaginary ones in cyberspace.
Which leaves the owners of Partygaming laughing all the way to the bank - whatever American legislators might think.
Partygaming, the internet poker company that floated on the London Stock Exchange this week, is believed to have a worth greater than many blue chip companies - but US law-makers are adamant that it breaks the law.
Online gambling is banned in America, so Partygaming which was set up by an American is based in Gibraltar with no assets in the US.
Its prospectus concedes: "In many countries, including the United States, the group's activities are considered to be illegal by the relevant authorities."
But, it adds the crucial clause: "Partygaming and its directors rely on the apparent unwillingness or inability of regulators generally to bring actions against businesses with no physical presence in the country concerned".
In other words, even if Partygaming were illegal, what could the authorities do?
Compulsive pleasure
Not that Americans are exactly shunning the website.
It's estimated that nine out of every 10 of its dollars last year came from the US.
At $600m those revenues are hefty and generated a profit of $350m in 2004.
When the dotcom bubble burst five years ago, not everything was destroyed - online gambling quietly thrived.
And then noisily thrived.
Partygaming was founded by Californian lawyer Ruth Parasol, who is now based in Gibraltar.
She teamed up with an Indian software engineer who designed a programme that would allow thousands of people anywhere in the world to simultaneously take part in internet poker games.
Their timing was impeccable.
Partypoker exploded as a game in 2002, driven partly by television coverage of big money contests with cameras under a glass table so viewers could see the players' cards.
It was a compulsive, vicarious pleasure that hooked multitudes of prospective customers.
Organised crime
Every estimate now predicts that growth will be phenomenal, perhaps from an annual billion dollars spent globally today to 10 times that amount in five years.
American poker players go online regardless of US law
Much will turn on the law in its biggest market, the United States.
The Interstate Wireline Act was passed nearly 50 years ago in an effort to stop organised crime rigging gambling.
Under it, "wire communication" of bets was outlawed on "sporting events or contests".
Legal disagreement
But poker clearly isn't a "sporting event" so is it a "contest" as defined by the law?
American lawyers are divided.
In 2001, a judge in Louisiana ruled that the act "does not prohibit internet gambling on a game of chance", a ruling that was sustained by a higher court.
Other states take a different view.
The Attorney General of New York, Eliot Spitzer, pursued finance houses that allowed their services be used to pay for online gambling - so firms based in New York have now blocked the use of their credit cards for online gambling.
Laughing all the way to the bank
So state law varies while the Justice Department maintains that federal law is unambiguously opposed to on-line gambling.
On top of that, the World Trade Organisation may have something to say about it.
In the past it has ruled that American attempts to criminalise some companies offering online gambling from the Caribbean broke rules of fair trade.
And some American companies based in Las Vegas may now be worried that they cannot get involved in what is a very lucrative expansion of their business from real casinos to virtual ones.
They have assets in the US which the authorities could come after if they break American law, so they are tied to real bricks-and-mortar casinos on terra firma rather than imaginary ones in cyberspace.
Which leaves the owners of Partygaming laughing all the way to the bank - whatever American legislators might think.
moneyplus
- 29 Jun 2005 15:26
- 11 of 346
also party has a 53% share of the market-mainly American customers--it's rivals have a share no bigger than 6% each. I'm happy to sit and wait with my small holding as I expect their first set of results to sparkle.
ateeq180 - 29 Jun 2005 15:42 - 12 of 346
ON THE OTHER BOARD,THATS III SOME ONE SAYS THE ACTUAL BUSINESS STARTS TOMORROW.
ateeq180 - 30 Jun 2005 15:12 - 13 of 346
NO ONE SEEMS TO DISCUSS ABOUT THIS SHARE,IS IT BECAUSE NO ONE IS TRADING THIS OR WATCHING FROM THE SIDE LINES.
Fundamentalist
- 30 Jun 2005 15:23
- 14 of 346
ateeq
im watching from the sidelines.
In an earlier post i posted my reasons why in the long term i saw it as too high risk and probably a good short but could see it rising in the short term - happy to sit on the sidelines and let the price settle down before getting involved
im watching from the sidelines.
In an earlier post i posted my reasons why in the long term i saw it as too high risk and probably a good short but could see it rising in the short term - happy to sit on the sidelines and let the price settle down before getting involved
ateeq180 - 30 Jun 2005 15:30 - 15 of 346
How does some one know where the price will settle ,and the amount of interest shown so far in terms of volume dont you think this might turn out to be another google,not in a big way but couple of years time.
Fundamentalist
- 30 Jun 2005 15:36
- 16 of 346
Ateeq
the few others i have spoken to on the traders room board agree with me that they think that it is fundamentally a short but then they like me have thought that at several prices along GOOGs upward rise, hence none of us have entered the market. I think there is every chance that the market could chase this up over the coming months, though long term I still believe the US govt effect will have the largest bearing on the long term share price.
In comparison to GOOG i think the two big differences are the possible illegality in the US and the lower barriers of entry to potential competitors
the few others i have spoken to on the traders room board agree with me that they think that it is fundamentally a short but then they like me have thought that at several prices along GOOGs upward rise, hence none of us have entered the market. I think there is every chance that the market could chase this up over the coming months, though long term I still believe the US govt effect will have the largest bearing on the long term share price.
In comparison to GOOG i think the two big differences are the possible illegality in the US and the lower barriers of entry to potential competitors
ateeq180 - 30 Jun 2005 15:41 - 17 of 346
Thanks for the info,its appreciated.The reason i was asking these questions were after reading what others have said on other boards,at the end of the day we make our own decisions,and should accept the decisions we make, good or bad.I am in this but for the short term,lets hope it stays that way,but i am sure profit takers must be lining up at some stage.
ateeq180 - 30 Jun 2005 15:41 - 18 of 346
Thanks for the info,its appreciated.The reason i was asking these questions were after reading what others have said on other boards,at the end of the day we make our own decisions,and should accept the decisions we make, good or bad.I am in this but for the short term,lets hope it stays that way,but i am sure profit takers must be lining up at some stage.
moneyplus
- 30 Jun 2005 16:47
- 19 of 346
The funds don't like the risks that come with this share but if it does go into the footsie 100 the trackers are forced to buy-so it may not be wise to short it yet a while.
neil26792 - 01 Jul 2005 20:11 - 20 of 346
as a new investor i was to say the least a little alarmed to see the rapid drop of party gaining thi afternoon. has anyone got any ideas why this should happen?
thanks
thanks
neil26792 - 01 Jul 2005 20:12 - 21 of 346
sorry,i was so alarmed i forgot how to spell
moneyplus
- 03 Jul 2005 18:08
- 22 of 346
Friday close--short term profit taking. I expect a steady rise next week towards footsie 100 status. IMO
tilvis - 04 Jul 2005 15:53 - 23 of 346
thanks for the reply, i hope you are right
moneyplus
- 05 Jul 2005 11:49
- 24 of 346
sliding back down the greasy pole I'm afraid but I intend to hold for the results in September.
snakey
- 05 Jul 2005 22:57
- 25 of 346
my personal opinion is that it will fall flat on it`s arse in 14-18 months time. wouldn`t touch it with your money Neil, let alone mine !!
snakey
- 05 Jul 2005 22:57
- 26 of 346
my personal opinion is that it will fall flat on it`s arse in 14-18 months time. wouldn`t touch it with your money Neil, let alone mine !!
ateeq180 - 12 Jul 2005 16:47 - 27 of 346
SOME THING IS DEFINATELY BREWING HERE,AS THERE HAS BEEN A TRADE OF 13 MILLION AS A BUY AT 16.40,ALSO UP 5P FOR THE DAY,AND ABOUT 90 MILLION SHARES CHANGED HANDS,ANY ONE WITH A SHORT TERM VIEW.THANKS.
ateeq180 - 12 Jul 2005 16:50 - 28 of 346
MY APOLOGIES JUST CHECKED AND ITS CHANGED TO A SELL,STRANGE AS I SAW THAT AS A BUY FIRST AND AFTER TYPING THE MESSAGE IT HAS CHANGED TO A SELL,PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES,BUT SOME COMMENTS ABOUT TODAYS TRADES WOULD BE NICE.
stockbunny
- 06 Sep 2005 13:14
- 29 of 346
Big plunge today, big risk going in but it's a poker playing company
so I've decided to take a 'bet' on partygaming on the back of the 1/3
share price drop.
Anyone else decided to give it a go?
so I've decided to take a 'bet' on partygaming on the back of the 1/3
share price drop.
Anyone else decided to give it a go?
mvp45 - 06 Sep 2005 13:37 - 30 of 346
I think the market has over reacted. Profits were above market expectations it was only that customer numbers did not increase at the rate as before. However they have just launched their product on mobiles which will increase this customer base. I feel sp will move up over the next few weeks.
stubax
- 06 Sep 2005 13:39
- 31 of 346
Ever hear the one about the falling knife !!!
stockbunny
- 06 Sep 2005 13:52
- 32 of 346
Yup same as the knee-jerk reaction stubax
this 'game' is a gamble however you play it.
;>)
this 'game' is a gamble however you play it.
;>)
Fundamentalist
- 06 Sep 2005 13:57
- 33 of 346
Bunny
If its any help ive closed out half of my postion but have left the other half running(as you know im short). As i said from the initial IPO i thought this was overvalued on fundies and my views of the poker site, and i still think the price is a bit toppy though wouldnt be surprised to see a bounce from the lows especially with entry to FTSE 100
Volumes going through are astonishingly high and I guess this is going to take a few days to settle down
If its any help ive closed out half of my postion but have left the other half running(as you know im short). As i said from the initial IPO i thought this was overvalued on fundies and my views of the poker site, and i still think the price is a bit toppy though wouldnt be surprised to see a bounce from the lows especially with entry to FTSE 100
Volumes going through are astonishingly high and I guess this is going to take a few days to settle down
stockbunny
- 06 Sep 2005 14:00
- 34 of 346
Agreed Fundy the original price was daft, levels now may be good as a
stabilising position, the ftse 1oo factor played a part in my decision to
be honest. Well done on your short this morning!
:>)
stabilising position, the ftse 1oo factor played a part in my decision to
be honest. Well done on your short this morning!
:>)
daves dazzlers
- 06 Sep 2005 14:33
- 35 of 346
In at a touch over 1.04.
moneyplus
- 06 Sep 2005 14:35
- 36 of 346
ouch! ouch!--I'm waiting for a recovery no funds to add at the moment and I think this is an overeaction!!
stockbunny
- 06 Sep 2005 14:42
- 37 of 346
Got a slightly better price then me Dave by a penny,
maybe gaming is our new high street?
;>)
maybe gaming is our new high street?
;>)
markusantonius
- 06 Sep 2005 14:45
- 38 of 346
Fundy, Wish you'd have told me you were going short last night, mate. This morning's collapse has cost me several k on a CFD courtesy of the wonderful counselling of Blue Index. They tend to concentrate on TA which ignores the essence of your knickname! My advice to anyone listening is this: ** DO NOT USE BLUE INDEX! **
stockbunny
- 06 Sep 2005 14:47
- 39 of 346
Markusantonius - sorry to hear that, none of us like to hear about
people loosing money, hope things pick up for you now and the next
trade goes well.
:>)
people loosing money, hope things pick up for you now and the next
trade goes well.
:>)
daves dazzlers
- 06 Sep 2005 14:50
- 40 of 346
I bunny,looking to offload very soon lets party on.
jimmy b
- 06 Sep 2005 14:51
- 41 of 346
Off topic ,i was hammered overnight on something i thought i was doing well in ,and one that was doing badly has made a comeback ,,i don't know wether to laugh or cry ...
sealed
- 06 Sep 2005 14:52
- 42 of 346
Oh dear!
"Blue Index CFD Research and technical analysis is provided exclusively to our clients. The research team is headed by Zak Mir, one of the UK's top technical analysts."
"Blue Index CFD Research and technical analysis is provided exclusively to our clients. The research team is headed by Zak Mir, one of the UK's top technical analysts."
stockbunny
- 06 Sep 2005 14:53
- 43 of 346
I'd go with the positive stuff Jimmy and put the negative stuff in the
mental drawer marked "Yes I know, I've learnt from it so I don't
have to keep being reminded!"
;>)
mental drawer marked "Yes I know, I've learnt from it so I don't
have to keep being reminded!"
;>)
daves dazzlers
- 06 Sep 2005 15:05
- 44 of 346
Going some click now almost 5% profit already,my sell by close.
stockbunny
- 06 Sep 2005 15:06
- 45 of 346
:>)
jimmy b
- 06 Sep 2005 15:07
- 46 of 346
Good point stockbunny...
daves dazzlers
- 06 Sep 2005 15:10
- 47 of 346
Looks like chips tonight for me.
markusantonius
- 06 Sep 2005 15:12
- 48 of 346
Looks like stale bread and water for The Shark!
stockbunny
- 06 Sep 2005 15:22
- 49 of 346
Mark - you can always pop over to the coffee house and we'll do
you a fry up or something, even throw a beer in, no charge
;>)
you a fry up or something, even throw a beer in, no charge
;>)
markusantonius
- 06 Sep 2005 15:23
- 50 of 346
Think I need a coffee shop - not a coffee house - right now!! :o( :o(
stockbunny
- 06 Sep 2005 15:34
- 51 of 346
Stuck at 108p....applying left bunny boot to it.....
KICK!!!!!!!!
Hopefully will start rolling up again now.....
;>)
KICK!!!!!!!!
Hopefully will start rolling up again now.....
;>)
seawallwalker
- 06 Sep 2005 17:33
- 52 of 346
I am begining to think gaming and betting stocks are like Chinese Takeaways, one on every corner.
In the 80's they eventualy lost a few, others were bought out now they are leaner and meaner, and they are profitable.
Maybe the same is happening here?
In the 80's they eventualy lost a few, others were bought out now they are leaner and meaner, and they are profitable.
Maybe the same is happening here?
daves dazzlers
- 06 Sep 2005 20:29
- 53 of 346
Wise words SW,,put me down for a egg fried rice with chips..
Fundamentalist
- 06 Sep 2005 21:17
- 54 of 346
Markus
sorry didnt see your post till now.
Have been short of these for a few weeks now - only a relatively small position but a nice result.
sorry didnt see your post till now.
Have been short of these for a few weeks now - only a relatively small position but a nice result.
seawallwalker
- 06 Sep 2005 23:13
- 55 of 346
Your meal is ready now Dave..........
azad - 07 Sep 2005 01:42 - 56 of 346
dont worry partygaming lovers wait for a rebound 51p rise in a week hold on and party
ptholden
- 07 Sep 2005 07:43
- 57 of 346
Wonder if UKbetting's results will help the sector today?
pth
pth
daves dazzlers
- 07 Sep 2005 07:51
- 58 of 346
Should be a nice opening,anyone want to fold.
ptholden
- 07 Sep 2005 08:51
- 59 of 346
Bunny
Nice kick you gave PRTY! Had the same thought as you last night. Fall looked over cooked. Typical over reaction by the market.
pth :-)
Nice kick you gave PRTY! Had the same thought as you last night. Fall looked over cooked. Typical over reaction by the market.
pth :-)
stockbunny
- 07 Sep 2005 11:12
- 60 of 346
PTH
LOL ;>)
Looking better today - now guys I'm in for a hand or two of cards
but no strip poker, this fur takes much too long to put on again afterwards!
;>)
LOL ;>)
Looking better today - now guys I'm in for a hand or two of cards
but no strip poker, this fur takes much too long to put on again afterwards!
;>)
daves dazzlers
- 08 Sep 2005 12:51
- 61 of 346
Looking hot today now.
moneyplus
- 08 Sep 2005 13:41
- 62 of 346
much relieved-down here in rainy Devon!!
daves dazzlers
- 09 Sep 2005 09:43
- 63 of 346
More good news
its on the up,,,,,never in doubt.
its on the up,,,,,never in doubt.
stockbunny
- 09 Sep 2005 09:49
- 64 of 346
:>)
tilvis - 09 Sep 2005 20:42 - 65 of 346
hello all, i have noticed there are quite alot of trades with the letter C next to them for (bargain conditions apply), could anyone tell me how these trades work please.
thanks
thanks
overclock king - 10 Sep 2005 20:34 - 66 of 346
hehe me2
skids
- 06 Oct 2005 10:13
- 67 of 346
GS have given a "in-line" broker forecast, with 110-130 target if 3rd Qtr results are as expected. Looks like PRTY may have been over sold.
stockbunny
- 06 Oct 2005 14:51
- 68 of 346
Well I'm one who will be happy if that's the case!
:>)
:>)
skids
- 06 Oct 2005 15:18
- 69 of 346
the GS forcast was given at the start of this week. PRTY is still falling at the moment. Anyone know when the 3rd qtr results are due?
stockbunny
- 06 Oct 2005 16:03
- 70 of 346
The last lot weren't that long ago....can't be this month surely?
skids
- 06 Oct 2005 16:30
- 71 of 346
Just checked and I think the full years won't be until Feb time next year. However, I'm assuming there will be an indicator release before then on 3rd qtr progress, but that is only a guess.
Peter123 - 06 Oct 2005 16:41 - 72 of 346
Are you guys a holder of Partygaming? Skids and Stockbunny?
stockbunny
- 06 Oct 2005 16:41
- 73 of 346
It will move shortly, not much damage done today anyway in the end.
stockbunny
- 06 Oct 2005 16:41
- 74 of 346
Yes Peter123 - got in for a quick profit when it took the nose dive,
as I'm still in I assume that profit will take a little longer LOL
as I'm still in I assume that profit will take a little longer LOL
Peter123 - 06 Oct 2005 16:44 - 75 of 346
Bought in around 1.69 ouch!! what price did you bought it at?
stockbunny
- 06 Oct 2005 16:47
- 76 of 346
OUCH...my break even is 95.something p
guess you may be around for longer then me.......
guess you may be around for longer then me.......
Peter123 - 06 Oct 2005 16:54 - 77 of 346
Went on hoilday when the results came out. Long term hold unless company goes wrong. Citicorp target price of 1.16 to 1.30. I use bloomberg and thats why I got report.
Peter123 - 06 Oct 2005 16:58 - 78 of 346
fyi
Back in the top flight, volatile online poker giant PartyGaming reversed an earlier decline, to trade at the top after Citigroup Smith Barney stuck with its 'buy' stance.
The broker also slapped a price target of 160p on PartyGaming, arguing that while its business model should be sustainable the modest pick up in growth expected in September is unlikely to restore confidence.
scottru - 06 Oct 2005 17:01 - 79 of 346
The key performance indicators (KPI) are due on the 21st October.
skids
- 07 Oct 2005 09:46
- 80 of 346
Peter123, I am a holder and got in after seeing the GS broker forecast this week.
skids
- 07 Oct 2005 10:49
- 81 of 346
More broker news.
Back in the top flight, volatile online poker giant PartyGaming reversed an earlier decline, to trade at the top after Citigroup Smith Barney stuck with its 'buy' stance.
The broker also slapped a price target of 160p on PartyGaming, arguing that while its business model should be sustainable the modest pick up in growth expected in September is unlikely to restore confidence.
Back in the top flight, volatile online poker giant PartyGaming reversed an earlier decline, to trade at the top after Citigroup Smith Barney stuck with its 'buy' stance.
The broker also slapped a price target of 160p on PartyGaming, arguing that while its business model should be sustainable the modest pick up in growth expected in September is unlikely to restore confidence.
stockbunny
- 07 Oct 2005 10:51
- 82 of 346
scottru - thanks for the diary date duly noted.
:>)
:>)
skids
- 07 Oct 2005 11:03
- 83 of 346
Dow Jones Newswire snippet.
0911 GMT [Dow Jones] BETonSPORTS (BSS.LN) has been "unfairly caught up in the current poker crossfire caused by PartyGaming's (PRTY.LN) September profit warning and this has masked the turnaround in the group's trading fortunes", says Numis. The group's recent 1H results were in line with market expectations and the outlook statement pointed to a strong rebound for profits in 2H 06 and FY 07. With forecast earnings growth of 72% over the next two years and a strong probability of upgrades both this year and next, Numis reaffirms its buy rating and 225p target, giving 60% upside. BETonSPORTS -0.7% at 138p. (LEV)
0911 GMT [Dow Jones] BETonSPORTS (BSS.LN) has been "unfairly caught up in the current poker crossfire caused by PartyGaming's (PRTY.LN) September profit warning and this has masked the turnaround in the group's trading fortunes", says Numis. The group's recent 1H results were in line with market expectations and the outlook statement pointed to a strong rebound for profits in 2H 06 and FY 07. With forecast earnings growth of 72% over the next two years and a strong probability of upgrades both this year and next, Numis reaffirms its buy rating and 225p target, giving 60% upside. BETonSPORTS -0.7% at 138p. (LEV)
Peter123 - 08 Oct 2005 01:00 - 84 of 346
The 3rd Quarter figures with be out in the fortnight according to the Guardian.
skids
- 08 Oct 2005 20:05
- 85 of 346
Peter123,
Yes, I have also heard that something will be posted by end of October.
skids
Yes, I have also heard that something will be posted by end of October.
skids
Peter123 - 10 Oct 2005 08:05 - 86 of 346
Guys I am out. Sold at a loss!!
stockbunny
- 10 Oct 2005 10:55
- 87 of 346
Well don't blame you and ok it was at a loss, but think of it as damage limitation
I hope they don't crash further - os I'm still in! - but if they do, you've not
lost what you could have done.
In short move on Peter
:>)
I hope they don't crash further - os I'm still in! - but if they do, you've not
lost what you could have done.
In short move on Peter
:>)
skids
- 10 Oct 2005 11:31
- 88 of 346
I'm still in, but now holding a loss. Holding out for the 3rd qtr update....
Peter123 - 10 Oct 2005 12:09 - 89 of 346
Guys, I sold at a massive loss. The 3rd quarter figures will be out on 21 October 2005. With the online gambling sector looking vulnerable, I am not going to take any more risks. Since they announced the growth was moderating it has been a down hill struggle. They should have phrased it better. Good luck to all Party holders!!!
hursheel - 10 Oct 2005 12:27 - 90 of 346
this looks like 30p to me
stockbunny
- 10 Oct 2005 15:43
- 91 of 346
Hursheel we thank you greatly for your humour...............
and hope your wisdom is as sharp.
;>)
and hope your wisdom is as sharp.
;>)
jimward9
- 11 Oct 2005 18:01
- 92 of 346
Been following these myself today, was getting a bit nervous, every time I checked trades they seemed to show they were starting to turn. (I do hope so as I am holding a small loss).
Did note that from 4.29pm & 5.00pm today their were 2.9 million share sales & 16 million buys. Is this the bottom ?
Will Sportingbet results give the sector a kick in the right direction on wednesday ?
Did note that from 4.29pm & 5.00pm today their were 2.9 million share sales & 16 million buys. Is this the bottom ?
Will Sportingbet results give the sector a kick in the right direction on wednesday ?
cinedog - 16 Oct 2005 18:07 - 93 of 346
I am hold from 1.30p, now 0.80p a share. Will be up again, but need so much time.
I hope.
I hope.
Fundamentalist
- 16 Oct 2005 19:20
- 94 of 346
Rather uncomplementary views written by two funds manager in the Sunday Times judgement day article
cinedog - 16 Oct 2005 21:30 - 95 of 346
I am a hungarian in Hungary. Cant read Sunday Times.
Fundamentalist
- 16 Oct 2005 22:03
- 96 of 346
cinedog
can read it anywhere in the world on the net if you can read english
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2769-1827335,00.html
can read it anywhere in the world on the net if you can read english
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2769-1827335,00.html
cinedog - 17 Oct 2005 09:50 - 97 of 346
Thank you!
I still hold a long from 1.28pounds
I still hold a long from 1.28pounds
Fred1new
- 08 Nov 2005 14:57
- 98 of 346
I have been stopped out of PRTY in Isa. at 88.36 and 89.08. The SP has dropped but the B/S 12/5 on large volumes.
Has there been a large undisclosed sell.
Anybody know does Level 2 show any reasons.
Bloody annoying, MMS has had some of my previous profit.
Has there been a large undisclosed sell.
Anybody know does Level 2 show any reasons.
Bloody annoying, MMS has had some of my previous profit.
expert - 12 Nov 2005 10:31 - 99 of 346
Empire under pressure as PartyGaming buys partners
Nils Pratley
Saturday November 12, 2005
The Guardian
PartyGaming yesterday put the penultimate touch to the overhaul of its relationships with so-called "skin" operators, buying two of its partners and severing its links with a third.
The deals were seen as a further alarming development for Empire Online, the fourth and largest skin operator. PartyGaming made a bid approach for Empire a week ago, but the potential target's share price has fallen 20% since then, reducing the company's market value to 260m. Analysts calculate that Empire's negotiating power in the talks is being eroded by the break-up of PartyGaming's skin network.
Skin operators work by recruiting online gamblers and directing them to the websites of actual operators, such as PartyGaming, owner of Party Poker, the world's biggest poker site. In exchange, the skins collect a slice of the profits generated by the online players.
However, PartyGaming undermined the economics of skin operators' businesses in September by switching its own directly recruited players to a superior operating platform. The skin players were left to play among themselves on an inferior version of the Party Poker site. Many are thought simply to have re-registered directly with Party Poker's new platform, thereby removing the commissions they were generating for the skins.
PartyGaming is buying MultiPoker, which has 255,000 registered players, mainly in Scandinavia, for $14.5m (8.3m) in cash. It will also pay about $4m for another privately owned skin, Intertops Poker, though its owners may continue to recruit players for Party Poker by working as commission-based affiliates.
Coral Eurobet, which is owned by casino group Gala, has decided to end its relationship with PartyGaming. It was Party Poker's second largest skin operator and clearly feels there is no future in trying to work within the new structure.
Yesterday's move leaves only the relationship with Empire Online, the largest skin contributor to Party Poker, to be resolved.
Robin Chhabra, of Evolution Securities, argued that yesterday's deals only strengthened PartyGaming's hand in the takeover negotiations.
"PartyGaming is using this to further squeeze down the price it pays for Empire - that's if it bothers at all," he said. "They're just deciding now if they're going to squeeze it and then buy it, or just kill it."
PartyGaming said its analysis of Empire's business would be thorough. "We are dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's and we will look under the floorboards to see if there is any dry rot there," its spokesman said.
Nils Pratley
Saturday November 12, 2005
The Guardian
PartyGaming yesterday put the penultimate touch to the overhaul of its relationships with so-called "skin" operators, buying two of its partners and severing its links with a third.
The deals were seen as a further alarming development for Empire Online, the fourth and largest skin operator. PartyGaming made a bid approach for Empire a week ago, but the potential target's share price has fallen 20% since then, reducing the company's market value to 260m. Analysts calculate that Empire's negotiating power in the talks is being eroded by the break-up of PartyGaming's skin network.
Skin operators work by recruiting online gamblers and directing them to the websites of actual operators, such as PartyGaming, owner of Party Poker, the world's biggest poker site. In exchange, the skins collect a slice of the profits generated by the online players.
However, PartyGaming undermined the economics of skin operators' businesses in September by switching its own directly recruited players to a superior operating platform. The skin players were left to play among themselves on an inferior version of the Party Poker site. Many are thought simply to have re-registered directly with Party Poker's new platform, thereby removing the commissions they were generating for the skins.
PartyGaming is buying MultiPoker, which has 255,000 registered players, mainly in Scandinavia, for $14.5m (8.3m) in cash. It will also pay about $4m for another privately owned skin, Intertops Poker, though its owners may continue to recruit players for Party Poker by working as commission-based affiliates.
Coral Eurobet, which is owned by casino group Gala, has decided to end its relationship with PartyGaming. It was Party Poker's second largest skin operator and clearly feels there is no future in trying to work within the new structure.
Yesterday's move leaves only the relationship with Empire Online, the largest skin contributor to Party Poker, to be resolved.
Robin Chhabra, of Evolution Securities, argued that yesterday's deals only strengthened PartyGaming's hand in the takeover negotiations.
"PartyGaming is using this to further squeeze down the price it pays for Empire - that's if it bothers at all," he said. "They're just deciding now if they're going to squeeze it and then buy it, or just kill it."
PartyGaming said its analysis of Empire's business would be thorough. "We are dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's and we will look under the floorboards to see if there is any dry rot there," its spokesman said.
moneyplus
- 12 Nov 2005 12:19
- 100 of 346
dog eat dog I suppose but this leaves a bit of a bad taste-not sure I want to hold PRTY long term now.
Red Erik - 16 Nov 2005 17:33 - 101 of 346
1+ bid coming soon for empire online by partygaming and it should be a very good offer looking at the news below could be a deal this week according to the press
a lot of percentage profit to be had in empire online to reach a quid could be a fair bit more though
From ADVFN
Online-Casinos.com, Denmark - 1 hour ago
BETTER NEWS FOR EMPIRE POKER
Daily live stats show that this online poker room skin is still alive and kicking
After the pessimistic speculation on Empire Poker Online from industry analysts recently, owner Noam Lanir will have been pleased with information from Which Poker this week, indicating that his poker "skin" was still pulling the players in.
Despite persistent media reports on a looming takeover by PartyGaming, the break-up of the Party Poker skins, a failed deal with Sportingbet and its own profit warnings, Empire Poker is still proving popular amongst the players says Which in a press release.
The monitoring site measured a peak of 5,212 active real money players on Empire Poker, the site operated by Empire Online. Whichpoker.com uses advanced statistical software to generate live figures updated every ten minutes throughout the day.
Empire Poker managed an average 1,701 active real-money ring-game players during the entire week from October 30. The average number of tournament players online at any given time was 817, making the average total of active real money players 2,518
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also ....
Empire Online; Renewed 100P/Share Bid Talk
Tuesday, November 15, 2005 10:38:47 AM ET
Dow Jones Newswires
1512 GMT [Dow Jones] Empire Online (EOL.LN) eyed on talk that a 100p/share bid will be tabled by Partygaming (PRTY.LN), according to traders. Earlier, the stock dipped on talk the bid had been abandoned, although a person close to the situation said Partygaming was still conducting due diligence. Partygaming spokesman declines to comment. Partygaming +0.8% at 94.25p, Empire Online unchanged at 74.5p, off earlier lows. (SMT)
moneyplus
- 08 Dec 2005 16:47
- 102 of 346
Took profits on this today but I intend to buy back hopefully when it drops back the future looks promising for this one-anyone else interested?
cinedog - 08 Dec 2005 18:31 - 103 of 346
what a good day was! 136.25p!!!
guru11 - 10 Dec 2005 22:34 - 104 of 346
And 138 after 141 on Friday.
moneyplus
- 07 Jan 2006 15:53
- 105 of 346
I'm back in this one for 2006-I'm hoping the results will be good even if the management is a bit naive. that trading statement they made was clumsy -hopefully they've learnt the lesson.
peeyam
- 13 Jan 2006 14:44
- 106 of 346
looks like next stop is 160 now. its in an upward trend lots of buys going through, trading update in 27th jan. expected to be good. good luck to all
peeyam
- 13 Jan 2006 16:33
- 107 of 346
JUST CURIOUS ANYONE READING THIS?
maggiebt4
- 13 Jan 2006 17:11
- 108 of 346
Me and I hope you're right
peeyam
- 13 Jan 2006 18:01
- 109 of 346
hope so too since i have a lot to lose or gain on this one. heard a rumour (news unconfirmed) that there is a good writing about it in the times. if I find will post it here. suggesting that the results on 27th are expected to be spectacular and that would probably explain the large volume trades. also have a felling that the huge sells shown on moneyam were actually buys will wait and see.
peeyam
- 17 Jan 2006 16:02
- 110 of 346
well looks like that was true after all has been gaining steady, will hit 160 before you can blink and expected to goto 2 after the news based on our research. have a big exposure on this one so am really pleased so far.
peeyam
- 17 Jan 2006 16:06
- 111 of 346
BUY
moneyplus
- 17 Jan 2006 16:14
- 112 of 346
why 2 is that an analyst forecast? I'd be very pleased if it did and I'm prepared to hold after buying back in--I'm hoping this one will perform like Sportingbet can't see any reason why not.
Tonker
- 03 Feb 2006 13:30
- 113 of 346
I'm in as well bought 700 at 142.00 two weeks ago... bad timing though
moneyplus
- 03 Feb 2006 14:31
- 114 of 346
Results out on 28th Feb--should see a steady rise towards that date. analysts have upgraded to 160 also. probably will fall again on results day as this seems to happen even if the results are excellent with every company!
Harry Peterson
- 16 Feb 2006 13:50
- 115 of 346
Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:59:30 AM ET
Dow Jones Newswires
1035 GMT [Dow Jones] Gaming stocks, including PartyGaming (PRTY.LN), Sportingbet (SBT.LN), 888 Holdings (888.LN) and NETeller (NLR.LN), are back in favor with investors following talk that the US government won't introduce a bill to ban online gaming, says a trader. Earlier this week, online gaming stocks fell sharply on concerns that such a bill in the US was being prepared.
http://www.newratings.com/analyst_news/article_1207454.html/
Dow Jones Newswires
1035 GMT [Dow Jones] Gaming stocks, including PartyGaming (PRTY.LN), Sportingbet (SBT.LN), 888 Holdings (888.LN) and NETeller (NLR.LN), are back in favor with investors following talk that the US government won't introduce a bill to ban online gaming, says a trader. Earlier this week, online gaming stocks fell sharply on concerns that such a bill in the US was being prepared.
http://www.newratings.com/analyst_news/article_1207454.html/
hlyeo98 - 18 Jul 2006 19:44 - 116 of 346
You are right, Harry
moneyplus
- 18 Jul 2006 20:48
- 117 of 346
what a bloodbath!! still gritting my teeth and holding hope there's a bounce back by year end.
e t - 30 Sep 2006 07:26 - 118 of 346
Reuters - Sat Sep 30, 2006
US Congress approves Internet gambling ban bill - By Peter Kaplan
(Updates with final approval of House)
Most forms of Internet gambling would be banned under a bill that received final U.S. congressional approval early Saturday.
The House of Representatives and Senate approved the measure and sent it to President George W. Bush to sign into law.
The bill, a compromise between earlier versions passed by the two chambers, would make it illegal for banks and credit card companies to make payments to online gambling sites.
Democrats had accused Republicans of pushing the bill to placate its conservative base, particularly the religious right, before the Nov. 7 congressional elections.
"It's been over 10 years in the making. The enforcement provisions provided by this bill will go a long way to stop these illegal online operations," said Sen. Jon Kyl, an Arizona Republican and a chief sponsor of the measure.
Negotiators from the Republican-led House and Senate reached a deal on the legislation Friday and attached it to unrelated legislation to bolster port security, which the Congress approved.
The final bill dropped earlier provisions opposed by some gaming interests that would have clarified that a 1961 federal law banning interstate telephone betting also covers an array of online gambling.
Investors in British-based gaming companies such as BETonSPORTS Plc (BSS.L: Quote, Profile, Research), Partygaming Plc (PRTY.L: Quote, Profile, Research) and 888 Holdings Plc (888.L: Quote, Profile, Research) have tracked the legislation.
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican and potential 2008 presidential candidate, recently appeared at a hearing in Iowa -- the state that holds the first presidential nominating contest for the 2008 election -- to listen to concerns about Internet gambling.
maestro - 30 Sep 2006 08:23 - 119 of 346
at least they have dropped betting by telephone...
Negotiators from the Republican-led House and Senate reached a deal on the legislation Friday and attached it to unrelated legislation to bolster port security, which the Congress approved.
The final bill dropped earlier provisions opposed by some gaming interests that would have clarified that a 1961 federal law banning interstate telephone betting also covers an array of online gambling.
Negotiators from the Republican-led House and Senate reached a deal on the legislation Friday and attached it to unrelated legislation to bolster port security, which the Congress approved.
The final bill dropped earlier provisions opposed by some gaming interests that would have clarified that a 1961 federal law banning interstate telephone betting also covers an array of online gambling.
e t - 30 Sep 2006 09:02 - 120 of 346
can't wait to buy in on monday        .......probably around the 20p mark!!
maestro - 30 Sep 2006 09:25 - 121 of 346
if it does IG INDEX will have to pay up the excess...i've a nice guaranteed tight stop loss..so would love to see them get shafted
PapalPower
- 30 Sep 2006 17:27
- 122 of 346
Update from NROG: National Right For Online Gaming
CONGRESSIONAL UPDATE: The United States Congress has passed the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006. After review (Click Here To Download) this bill is largerly ceremonial and it DOES NOT amend the Wire Act. The UIGEA deal only with payment methods inside the U.S. including banks wires, checks, and other US internet payment companies. Thankfully it appears to be business as usual for the most of the industry, but please understand the Wire Act Amendment is an issue that can easily be raised again. This fight is not over until that threat is gone.
http://www.saveonlinegaming.com/
CONGRESSIONAL UPDATE: The United States Congress has passed the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006. After review (Click Here To Download) this bill is largerly ceremonial and it DOES NOT amend the Wire Act. The UIGEA deal only with payment methods inside the U.S. including banks wires, checks, and other US internet payment companies. Thankfully it appears to be business as usual for the most of the industry, but please understand the Wire Act Amendment is an issue that can easily be raised again. This fight is not over until that threat is gone.
http://www.saveonlinegaming.com/
cynic
- 30 Sep 2006 19:08
- 123 of 346
maestro ... what a pathetic attitude! .... if u don't like IG, then use another broker or medium.
as for this whole sector, i just don't think it's the place to be for the time being .... there may well be some fast bucks to be made, but the odds don't feel that favourable
as for this whole sector, i just don't think it's the place to be for the time being .... there may well be some fast bucks to be made, but the odds don't feel that favourable
PapalPower
- 01 Oct 2006 06:33
- 124 of 346
It was a minor victory for gaming companies, in that Frist dropped the important Wire Act part (as he knew this COULD NOT go through) and went underhand to put in place "toothless" legislation that is face saving for him.
This will have no effect on gaming, given what it says and how its going to go, and in fact should REMOVE a lot of the uncertainty, in that Frist and his Wire Act clarifications (which could effect the gaming world) had to be removed and is likely not to surface for a long time again.
Celebrate that this is a minor victory for the gaming companies, and their future is now a bit more secure IMO.
Measure to curb internet gambling falls short of applying existing laws to web
http://www.gambling911.com/internet-gambling-093006.html
Even House Homeland Security Committee Peter King Chairman Peter King, R-N.Y., who headed House-Senate negotiations on the port security bill seemed taken aback by the internet gambling measure.
The bill falls short of adding clarity to an already existing 1961 Wire Act that prohibits betting via phone across state lines and failed to apply that law to gambling on the web. This is being viewed as a slight victory for the online gambling community as it is now unlikely such revisions will ever be added in the future.
This will have no effect on gaming, given what it says and how its going to go, and in fact should REMOVE a lot of the uncertainty, in that Frist and his Wire Act clarifications (which could effect the gaming world) had to be removed and is likely not to surface for a long time again.
Celebrate that this is a minor victory for the gaming companies, and their future is now a bit more secure IMO.
Measure to curb internet gambling falls short of applying existing laws to web
http://www.gambling911.com/internet-gambling-093006.html
Even House Homeland Security Committee Peter King Chairman Peter King, R-N.Y., who headed House-Senate negotiations on the port security bill seemed taken aback by the internet gambling measure.
The bill falls short of adding clarity to an already existing 1961 Wire Act that prohibits betting via phone across state lines and failed to apply that law to gambling on the web. This is being viewed as a slight victory for the online gambling community as it is now unlikely such revisions will ever be added in the future.
janetbennison - 01 Oct 2006 07:42 - 125 of 346
I am still in. Reduced my holding on thurday from 100,000 shares to 80,000. I am going to sit tight. The go ex divident on wednesday. Does anyone else in the investors room hold any of these shares. would be interesting to know.
janetbennison - 01 Oct 2006 08:07 - 126 of 346
The 20,000 partygaming that I sold. I bought these on 20th sept at 100.75p then on 28th sept. I sold them at 1.05p. This made a profit of 831. Have a nice week to all in the investors room, and keep posting. It is always good to hear other peoples views.
e t - 01 Oct 2006 08:54 - 127 of 346
Sunday Telegraph
US Congress acts to ban online bets
By Richard Northedge and Louisa Gault
(Filed: 01/10/2006)
A bill making it illegal for banks and credit card companies to process payments to online gaming companies was unexpectedly approved by the US Congress yesterday, threatening to devastate the business of British companies such as PartyGaming, 888 Holdings and BetonSports.
The bill now needs only the approval of President George Bush to become law, and he is widely expected to sign it before the November 7 congressional elections to gain support from the political right.
A ban on online gaming payments will be a crippling blow to a fast-growing UK industry already reeling from the arrest of executives in America for allegedly breaching gaming laws.
PartyGaming was floated on the London Stock Exchange last year despite its prospectus containing 33 pages warning of risks such as a block on money transmission. The FTSE100 company earned 85 per cent of its revenues from US clients using its internet services.
Its shares have been highly volatile as the price reacted to threats to its business. They have fluctuated between 180p and 71p and were already 9p below their 116p flotation price before yesterday's move; they are expected to fall further this week along with smaller rivals.
The main losers will be the company's founders, even though they have sold 1.2bn of shares in the flotation and subsequently. Other investors include Coral Ventures, with an 8.6 per cent stake worth 369m on Friday, and Barclays with a 3 per cent holding.
US politicians have been trying to ban remote gaming for more than a decade and yesterday's move makes it almost certain that they will attain their goal. Previously, the Senate has resisted such efforts but Republican leader Bill Frist secured a breakthrough at the last minute by attaching the gaming provisions to an unrelated bill dealing with port security.
Frist said: "Gambling is a serious addiction that undermines the family, dashes dreams and frays the fabric of society. For me, the bottom line is simple: internet gambling is illegal. Although we can't monitor every online gambler or regulate offshore gambling, we can police the financial institutions that disregard our laws."
Andrew McIvor, the finance director of Sportingbet, which takes most of its bets from the US market, said last night: "We have not discussed it yet as a board and have not taken on what it really means for the company as yet. Things will unravel during the week."
The company's former chairman, Peter Dicks, was released on Friday after New York's state governor refused to sign an order extraditing him to Louisiana to face charges of illegal computer gambling.
The bill incorporates aspects of legislation put before the Senate earlier this year and was passed despite protests from the banking industry, which said the measures were an impractical and expensive burden. Once passed, financial organisations will have to block electronic transfers of funds to the gaming companies.
Although some clients may find alternative payment routes, the banks' clampdown would affect the majority of the companies' US business.
The port security bill was being debated on Friday when Frist added his gaming amendment. Debate continued until yesterday but despite Democrat opposition, members were reluctant to lose the core of the bill and passed it with the online gambling provisions. The House of Representatives and Senate both approved the bill early yesterday before passing it to Bush.
john50 - 01 Oct 2006 19:42 - 128 of 346
Online gaming groups face fall out from US congress internet gambling ban move
AFX
LONDON (AFX) - Shares in internet gambling companies such as Partygaming PLC and 888 Holdings PLC could be hit this week by news that US congress unexpectedly passed a bill this weekend that could help outlaw online gambling.
The new proposals would make it illegal for banks and credit card companies to settle payments to online gambling sites.
The measures were tacked on to a bill aimed at enhancing port security, and passed on Saturday.
The bill needs to be signed by President George Bush to become law.
The Sunday Telegraph said that is likely to happen before Nov 7 congressional elections, to help garner support from the political right. The move threatens to 'devastate' the business of some online gaming companies, it claimed.
Sportingbet PLC, which generates around two-thirds of its profits in the US, declined to comment on the situation.
The company's former chairman Peter Dicks was cleared to return to London on Friday after New York's governor refused to sign a warrant extraditing him to Louisiana, where he is charged with illegal online gambling.
He was the second British executive to be arrested in a recent crackdown in the US. BETonSPORTS PLC's former chief executive David Carruthers was arrested in July and charged with racketeering, conspiracy and fraud.
A spokesman for the company pointed out that BETonSPORTS has since closed down all its US websites.
888 and Partygaming could not be reached for comment. The Sunday Telegraph quoted a spokesman for the latter as saying 'we are evaluating the situation and have nothing further to add'.
Last week William Hill PLC said it had decided to stop accepting casino and poker business from clients with a US address or US issued credit card, pending clarification of laws regarding online gambling by US citizens.
amy.brown@afxnews.com
ab/ak
COPYRIGHT
Copyright AFX News Limited 2005. All rights reserved.
The copying, republication or redistribution of AFX News Content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of AFX News.
AFX News and AFX Financial News Logo are registered trademarks of AFX News Limited
AFX
LONDON (AFX) - Shares in internet gambling companies such as Partygaming PLC and 888 Holdings PLC could be hit this week by news that US congress unexpectedly passed a bill this weekend that could help outlaw online gambling.
The new proposals would make it illegal for banks and credit card companies to settle payments to online gambling sites.
The measures were tacked on to a bill aimed at enhancing port security, and passed on Saturday.
The bill needs to be signed by President George Bush to become law.
The Sunday Telegraph said that is likely to happen before Nov 7 congressional elections, to help garner support from the political right. The move threatens to 'devastate' the business of some online gaming companies, it claimed.
Sportingbet PLC, which generates around two-thirds of its profits in the US, declined to comment on the situation.
The company's former chairman Peter Dicks was cleared to return to London on Friday after New York's governor refused to sign a warrant extraditing him to Louisiana, where he is charged with illegal online gambling.
He was the second British executive to be arrested in a recent crackdown in the US. BETonSPORTS PLC's former chief executive David Carruthers was arrested in July and charged with racketeering, conspiracy and fraud.
A spokesman for the company pointed out that BETonSPORTS has since closed down all its US websites.
888 and Partygaming could not be reached for comment. The Sunday Telegraph quoted a spokesman for the latter as saying 'we are evaluating the situation and have nothing further to add'.
Last week William Hill PLC said it had decided to stop accepting casino and poker business from clients with a US address or US issued credit card, pending clarification of laws regarding online gambling by US citizens.
amy.brown@afxnews.com
ab/ak
COPYRIGHT
Copyright AFX News Limited 2005. All rights reserved.
The copying, republication or redistribution of AFX News Content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of AFX News.
AFX News and AFX Financial News Logo are registered trademarks of AFX News Limited
e t - 02 Oct 2006 07:08 - 129 of 346
The Times
October 02, 2006
Gambling online faces collapse in US after Senate ban
By Dominic Walsh
AMERICAs $6 billion (3.2 billion) internet gambling industry is facing meltdown after the US Senate pushed through a Bill at the weekend outlawing the processing of bets by banks and credit companies.
The surprise move, which is expected to spark a massive share sell-off, will prompt London-listed 888 Holdings to announce this morning that it is halting its entire US-facing operation, accounting for half its business.
PartyGaming, the worlds biggest internet gambling company, said last night that it was still evaluating the situation, although industry sources believe it will also announce a cessation of its services to American punters.
However Sportingbet, which was celebrating on Friday after a New York court released its former chairman, who had been facing gambling charges, will tell investors that it is still digesting the implications of the Bill.
Despite the Bills prescriptive nature, it excludes local online betting on horseracing, fantasy leagues and lotteries. It also has no impact on the hundreds of casinos and gambling emporia that dot America, ranging from the neon palaces of Las Vegas and Atlantic City to the riverboat casinos that ply their trade on the Mississippi.
One senior internet gambling executive said last night: This is the worst form of protectionism I have ever seen. This will drive internet gambling underground and consumer protection will go out of the window. The religious groups that lobbied for this may live to regret it.
The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Bill needs only to be signed by President Bush to become law. Legal sources predict that he will do so in the next two weeks, possibly as early as Wednesday.
The passing of the Bill in the early hours of Saturday surprised the industry. Although it had successfully negotiated Congress, its passage through the Senate looked likely to be blocked through lack of parliamentary time.
However, Bill Frist, the Republican leader in the Senate, got the measure through by attaching it to an unrelated Bill that enhances port security.
Gambling is a serious addiction that undermines the family, dashes dreams and frays the fabric of society, Dr Frist said. The bottom line is simple: internet gambling is illegal. Although we cant monitor every online gambler or regulate offshore gambling, we can police the financial institutions that disregard our laws.
The ban may drive some small companies out of business, although big operators such as 888 and PartyGaming will highlight the strong prospects of their non-US business.
However, 888 is expected to warn its shareholders in a Stock Exchange statement this morning that its withdrawal from America will force it to pare back its cost base, resulting in a significant hit against this years profits.
e t - 02 Oct 2006 07:18 - 130 of 346
The Times
October 02, 2006
Need to Know: Global Business Briefing
The internet gambling industry is preparing itself for a massive share sell-off after the US Senate pushed through a bill outlawing the processing of bets by banks and credit companies.
888 Holdings, which is listed in London, will announce that it is halting its US-facing operation.
daves dazzlers
- 02 Oct 2006 07:35
- 131 of 346
No morals them yanks,bit jealous me thinks,lets open it up again,and we can take the income tax after we kick them out,,sell on the bell for me,ding,,ding,roll on 8.00am
e t - 02 Oct 2006 07:44 - 132 of 346
PartyGaming may suspend U.S. gaming business
Mon Oct 2, 2006 7:20 AM
LONDON, Oct 2 (Reuters) - Online gaming group PartyGaming Plc said on Monday it would stop doing business with U.S. customers if legislation passed there aimed at preventing gambling over the Internet was signed into law.
"If the President signs the act into law, the company will suspend all real money gaming business with U.S. residents, and such suspension will continue indefinitely," it said in a statement.
"Any such suspension would also result in the group's financial performance falling significantly short of consensus forecasts for 2006 and 2007," it added.
e t - 02 Oct 2006 07:46 - 133 of 346
Sportingbet warns on gaming ban, scraps merger
Mon Oct 2, 2006 7:29 AM
LONDON, Oct 2 (Reuters) - Online gaming group Sportingbet Plc said on Monday it would scrap a planned merger and might stop doing business with U.S. customers after legislation was passed there aimed at preventing gambling over the Internet.
"Should Sportingbet's non-U.S. international banking partners determine that the act applied to them, then Sportingbet would no longer be able to take deposits from U.S. residents and this would have a material impact on the company's trading performance," it said in a statement.
"The boards of Sportingbet Plc and World Gaming Plc have discontinued any discussions with regard to a potential offer by Sportingbet for World Gaming," the two groups added.
e t - 02 Oct 2006 07:56 - 134 of 346
SBT down 74% and falling !!!!!!
PRTY down 32% and falling !!!!!!
888 down 40% and falling !!!!!!
slkhlaw - 02 Oct 2006 08:37 - 135 of 346
Don't catch a falling knife. Ditch those shares while you can.
Harlosh
- 02 Oct 2006 08:58
- 136 of 346
How amazingly insightful Fundamentalist's post of June 2005 proved to be which I reproduce below - it could have been written today if we didn't know better:
"moneyplus
my thoughts fwiw
there may be some short term upside but to me for the longer term the risks far outweigh the potential reward
I am someone who plays poker online regularly and can see why party is a popular site. However, there is large potential downside in the future based on US govt policy as to whether online gambling is legal - currently it is deemed to be illegal but not policed. Party receive 87% of their revenues from US citizens - if this avenue of revenue and profit is lost then the company will be but a shadow of its current self. To me there are two possible ways this can go long term:
1) The US govt crackdown on their citizens gambling on-line - they have already started by putting pressure on the likes of paypal who do not allow money tfrs to gambling sites. They are also rumoured to be starting to put the pressure onto the banks and credit card companies.
2) The US govt decide to legalise online gambling. If this were to happen then the competition to party will increase overnight with several very big players, especially the casinos who would be likely to bring out their own sites. They would have the ability to link the games to real live games in the casino and offer "comps" to the online players like they do the "live" players. If this were to happen then party could well get squeezed out of the market completely. Ultimately the barriers to entry for competitors are low - the value is the brand name and its customers -the software can effectively be bought off the shelf now.
Based on this, party will only be successful while the US govt continue to dither in either enforcing or changing their policy in this area. Until then, they are likely to generate substantial amounts of cash.
My other concern is to why they have floated - the cash was not needed to help grow the business, it is just to enable the founders to take some money out of the business - would they be doing this if they thought the companys prospects were going to get better?
Long term i think this is a share i would be happy to short but am currently on the sidelines until the price has settled down and found a trading range - i wouldnt be surprised to see it rise over the coming weeks but personally dont see it being a ftse100 company in a few years time.
Fundamentalist.
"moneyplus
my thoughts fwiw
there may be some short term upside but to me for the longer term the risks far outweigh the potential reward
I am someone who plays poker online regularly and can see why party is a popular site. However, there is large potential downside in the future based on US govt policy as to whether online gambling is legal - currently it is deemed to be illegal but not policed. Party receive 87% of their revenues from US citizens - if this avenue of revenue and profit is lost then the company will be but a shadow of its current self. To me there are two possible ways this can go long term:
1) The US govt crackdown on their citizens gambling on-line - they have already started by putting pressure on the likes of paypal who do not allow money tfrs to gambling sites. They are also rumoured to be starting to put the pressure onto the banks and credit card companies.
2) The US govt decide to legalise online gambling. If this were to happen then the competition to party will increase overnight with several very big players, especially the casinos who would be likely to bring out their own sites. They would have the ability to link the games to real live games in the casino and offer "comps" to the online players like they do the "live" players. If this were to happen then party could well get squeezed out of the market completely. Ultimately the barriers to entry for competitors are low - the value is the brand name and its customers -the software can effectively be bought off the shelf now.
Based on this, party will only be successful while the US govt continue to dither in either enforcing or changing their policy in this area. Until then, they are likely to generate substantial amounts of cash.
My other concern is to why they have floated - the cash was not needed to help grow the business, it is just to enable the founders to take some money out of the business - would they be doing this if they thought the companys prospects were going to get better?
Long term i think this is a share i would be happy to short but am currently on the sidelines until the price has settled down and found a trading range - i wouldnt be surprised to see it rise over the coming weeks but personally dont see it being a ftse100 company in a few years time.
Fundamentalist.
0rient
- 02 Oct 2006 10:45
- 137 of 346
janetbennison....hope your ok....guaranteed stop loss??
janetbennison - 02 Oct 2006 11:23 - 138 of 346
did not have a stop loss
janetbennison - 02 Oct 2006 11:31 - 139 of 346
friday prty closed at 1.07 this morning the opened at .40. If I had left say a stop loss at .90p would this have still worked even though they opened at .40p. I have never really understood how the system works. I have taken a real battering today on this one. I will haave to sit on these long tern now this has happened. Good luck to all of you.
Fundamentalist
- 02 Oct 2006 11:35
- 140 of 346
Janet
sorry to hear of your loss
with regard to stop losses, if you had a normal stop loss then no it wouldnt have helped you as the price "gapped" past your stop. However, you are able to take a guaranteed stop out (you pay a little extra on the spread for this) and this would have exited you at whatever price you set it at
With regard to sitting on these long term, i would recommend revisiting the fundamentals and working out whether in light of the last few days whether they are good value at their current price. If not then i would look to sell and put your funds into a stock with a better outlook
sorry to hear of your loss
with regard to stop losses, if you had a normal stop loss then no it wouldnt have helped you as the price "gapped" past your stop. However, you are able to take a guaranteed stop out (you pay a little extra on the spread for this) and this would have exited you at whatever price you set it at
With regard to sitting on these long term, i would recommend revisiting the fundamentals and working out whether in light of the last few days whether they are good value at their current price. If not then i would look to sell and put your funds into a stock with a better outlook
cynic
- 02 Oct 2006 11:49
- 141 of 346
JB .... as Fundy says unless it was guaranteed, then no, it would have made no difference as price was dumped to 40p at the opening and you would have been closed out at that price .... you will need to talk to your broker about guaranteed stops as just possible not available on all if the stock is considered too volatile or similar or only at a significant premium
slkhlaw - 02 Oct 2006 12:25 - 142 of 346
80,000 is a very big position in my oppinion, I hope Janet, you didn't put all your eggs in one basket or do it through CFD. Given the P/E for the share is already very high on its own, close to 20 if I remember correctly and considering 80% to 90% of Party's revenue is generated from US market, I felt that it still have some more downtrend to follow. I would quickly close my position if I were you.
Here is how I value this share. (80% plunge in EPS), revised EPS = 20% x 6p = 1.2p.
P/E was previous 18, that is significantly higher than the FTSE average of 13. I doubt people would still be willing to pay for such a high P/E after knowing all these bad news. Say they will pay the industry average of 13, that would value the share at 16p or thereabout. Given whatever the price is now, 45p say. There is still quite a distant to fall.
Anyway, you can also bet the board will significantly expand the European market to counterweight the exposure to the US market and things could get brighter in a few years time, who knows?
Here is how I value this share. (80% plunge in EPS), revised EPS = 20% x 6p = 1.2p.
P/E was previous 18, that is significantly higher than the FTSE average of 13. I doubt people would still be willing to pay for such a high P/E after knowing all these bad news. Say they will pay the industry average of 13, that would value the share at 16p or thereabout. Given whatever the price is now, 45p say. There is still quite a distant to fall.
Anyway, you can also bet the board will significantly expand the European market to counterweight the exposure to the US market and things could get brighter in a few years time, who knows?
Fundamentalist
- 02 Oct 2006 13:03
- 143 of 346
Think the EPS could well be worse than that if they have to close all US accounts as they will have a much higher proportion of fixed costs in relation to the remaining turnover and gross profit (i say gross profit because im not convinced they will have a net profit). It will also put a lot of pressure on the balance sheet and gearing of the company.
I also wonder what short term effect is on cash flow position if all US players need the cash they have in their online accounts returned (hopefully this is ringfenced but i cant find anything that confirms this)
I also wonder what short term effect is on cash flow position if all US players need the cash they have in their online accounts returned (hopefully this is ringfenced but i cant find anything that confirms this)
slkhlaw - 02 Oct 2006 13:24 - 144 of 346
I have not thought of the cash flow problem, thanks for enlighting me. Oh well, I think it is just as bad a day for the board as it is for the investors.
They will probably be kicked out of FTSE100 the next time round much like Corus and other shares did. But Corus is doing brilliantly in FTSE250. Perhaps maybe when Party being demoted to FTSE250 only will I start considering buying it again.
They will probably be kicked out of FTSE100 the next time round much like Corus and other shares did. But Corus is doing brilliantly in FTSE250. Perhaps maybe when Party being demoted to FTSE250 only will I start considering buying it again.
bonfield - 02 Oct 2006 16:02 - 145 of 346
Ms Bennison you have very deep pockets! Given your ownership of VOG,IOT,GOO,PRTY and the like I'm surprised you're still solvent. Do you trade on margin or just regular holdings?
stockbunny
- 02 Oct 2006 16:13
- 146 of 346
Hey Janet - chin up gal - said one gal to another.
You're not the only one who's stuck still holding these, I'm another one and I am sure there are a lot more - there certainly were a lot admitting they were buying in when things were good! This one was always a big gamble, I've done well with it in the past but always knew it could be a disaster, it was a risk taken, profited from and now..well it's a case of wait and see. I certainly wont dump at this price but that's just IMHO, it's made up a few pence today - so far - we shall have to see.
:>)
You're not the only one who's stuck still holding these, I'm another one and I am sure there are a lot more - there certainly were a lot admitting they were buying in when things were good! This one was always a big gamble, I've done well with it in the past but always knew it could be a disaster, it was a risk taken, profited from and now..well it's a case of wait and see. I certainly wont dump at this price but that's just IMHO, it's made up a few pence today - so far - we shall have to see.
:>)
cynic
- 02 Oct 2006 16:25
- 147 of 346
stock* and JB .... far from convinced that continuing to hold is correct ...... i thought the market might deem the fall overdone this morning, but the recovery has not continued
stockbunny
- 02 Oct 2006 16:35
- 148 of 346
Agreed Cynic but I'm not bailing right now, decision made rightly or wrongly.
That's not to say I wont bail out tomorrow, next day or next week but just not today.
That's not to say I wont bail out tomorrow, next day or next week but just not today.
soul traders
- 02 Oct 2006 16:37
- 149 of 346
Fundamentalist,
Re your post #140: I appreciate the sentiment behind your suggestion, but are you not somewhat spitting in the wind by telling JB to look at the fundamentals?
My point being that the red "no bathing" flags have been flying for weeks when it came to online gambling stocks and if they weren't a significant indication as to what might happen to the fundamentals, then I don't know what was.
JB, one sentence confirmed it all: "I have never really understood how the system works."
I really hope you can afford your losses; if you still feel inclined to invest, then perhaps you might be persuaded not to let the size of your investment outstrip your knowledge of the subject.
I am truly sorry that so many people have lost out this morning, but the warning signs were there.
Yours in something of a state of shock and awe.
Soul Traders.
Re your post #140: I appreciate the sentiment behind your suggestion, but are you not somewhat spitting in the wind by telling JB to look at the fundamentals?
My point being that the red "no bathing" flags have been flying for weeks when it came to online gambling stocks and if they weren't a significant indication as to what might happen to the fundamentals, then I don't know what was.
JB, one sentence confirmed it all: "I have never really understood how the system works."
I really hope you can afford your losses; if you still feel inclined to invest, then perhaps you might be persuaded not to let the size of your investment outstrip your knowledge of the subject.
I am truly sorry that so many people have lost out this morning, but the warning signs were there.
Yours in something of a state of shock and awe.
Soul Traders.
Fundamentalist
- 02 Oct 2006 17:32
- 150 of 346
ST
only trying to help in answer to a question
only trying to help in answer to a question
soul traders
- 02 Oct 2006 19:13
- 151 of 346
Fundy, I appreciate that, and didn't mean to cause anyone any offence. I apologise if offence was felt. You're right in what you say.
maestro - 02 Oct 2006 19:41 - 152 of 346
who needs friggin America...shareprice has fallen to this over emphasis on yankeeland...hundreds more countries to be in...the growth story has just begun
cynic
- 02 Oct 2006 20:06
- 153 of 346
more maesto supreme rubbish ..... what's this guy on? .... methane overdose?
hlyeo98 - 02 Oct 2006 20:44 - 154 of 346
President Bush is costing me a bomb!
maestro - 02 Oct 2006 21:32 - 155 of 346
yes he cost me a bomb on 911 too...i wish i had his foresight to put a put option on airline stocks a couple of days before 911
janetbennison - 02 Oct 2006 23:07 - 156 of 346
cynic have a look in your email box. Please confirm you have received your mail.
MightyMicro
- 03 Oct 2006 01:34
- 157 of 346
maestro: Friggin America, as you put it, is needed because that's where the customers are. The fact that the U.S. is reinforcing its antiquated laws on 'wire' based gambling to protect its own huge and lucrative gaming industry is no different from the French fiddling with laws to keep British lamb and beef exports out.
The Americans may well be harnessing the righteous indignation of the minority vociferous religious right to the cause -- but that's no different to the French harnessing 'health concerns' to theirs to placate their vociferous and influential farmers.
The Americans may well be harnessing the righteous indignation of the minority vociferous religious right to the cause -- but that's no different to the French harnessing 'health concerns' to theirs to placate their vociferous and influential farmers.
e t - 03 Oct 2006 03:37 - 158 of 346
Citywire. On-line gaming devastated as US plans to ban banks making payments
The signature of US president George Bush on a shock piece of legislation will effectively outlaw payments for on-line gaming and turn a booming industry into one of potential bust.
Big players like PartyGaming, Sportingbet and 888 Holdings have been rushed into issuing profit warnings and say they are likely to pull out of the US market which is where most of their income comes from.
All the shares were hit hard. Market leader PartyGaming saw its share price crash by over 60% before settling at 47.75p, down 59.375p or 55.49%.
On Saturday the US Congress approved The Safe Port Act which was passed to the House of Representatives and Senate which forwarded it to the White House for the president's signature which will make it law.
When passed, the act will simply make it illegal for banks and credit card companies to approve payments for on-line gambling sites.
Given that the US authorities have made their disapproval of on-line gaming clear with the arrest of Sportingbet chairman Peter Dicks in New York last month and BETonSports chief executive in Dallas in July, the president's signature is expected in the next two weeks.
Efforts to outlaw on-line gaming in the US have been getting nowhere fast. The Safe Port Act has caught the industry by surprise in that it doesn't outlaw on-line gaming, but prevents the participants from paying for it.
Provisions in the bill, in a section labelled the 'Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006', outlaw the processing of payments between US gamblers and on-line gaming companies.
Although the act makes unlawful the receipt by a gambling business of proceeds or money in connection with unlawful internet gambling, it does not clarify the definition of unlawful gambling.
But PartyGaming says that if the bill is signed it will be practically impossible for it to provide US residents with access to its real money poker and other real money gaming sites.
'If the President signs the act into law, PartyGaming will suspend all real money gaming business with US residents, and such suspension will continue indefinitely, subject to clarification of the interpretation and enforcement of US law and the impact on financial institutions of this and other related legislation' it says in a statement to the Stock Exchange.
Scott Longley, editor of Egaming Review said: Theres going to be no dead cat bounce on this one. This pussy is well and truly flattened'.
PartyGaming PR man John Shepherd shares Longleys pessimism: The measure outlaws the processing of payments between US customers and on-line gaming companies. It makes it practically impossible for us to provide any US resident with our real money online gaming service.
Sportingbet is more optimistic. It points out that its 'non-US international banking partners' will first have to determine whether the new act applies to them.
It also notes that the law explicitly exempts US gambling interests and it is seeking clarification as to the legality of this under US commitments to the World Trade General Agreement of Trade and Services.
But the stock market has assumed that the on-line gamblers will lose all their US revenues and has cut share prices by the percentage of business which comes from the USA.
Lumley reckons that PartyGaming will lose 60% of its business. He thinks 888, down from 146.5p to 95p, and Sportingbet, down from 184.25p to 79p, have similar percentage shares from the USA.
He says the percentage will be even higher for Leisure and Gaming, down more than two thirds from 38p to just 12p, and adds that World Gaming, down from 64p to 12.75p, is practically entirely US-based.
Of the larger on-line operators only Ladbrokes and William Hill have no US customers. William Hill shares were down 2p at 641.5p, while Ladbrokes was up 1.5p at 390.5p.
The big question now is whether other countries follow the US lead. And is there any sort of fight back in the US?
Longley claims that other European countries cant simply ban something which is perfectly legal in the UK, and says that EU law makes it hard to ban on-line gambling.
Both he and Shepherd claim that the Safe Port Act has been pushed through to protect US gambling monopolies including state lotteries, horse racing and Las Vegas.
Citywire verdict: Although the new act has caught the industry by surprise, the writing has been on the wall for sometime and the big players have been expanding outside the US as fast they as can.
As the US has always regulated gambling, the question has often been posed about how long it would allow a new bunch of web-based players near unlimited access to its wallets of its gambling addicted citizens?
The Safe Port Act doesn't outlaw gambling so much as they way it is paid for, so it will doubtless be challenged in the courts.
Although the moral standards may be duplicitous, given the strength of the Christian Right in the US and the countrys puritan past, it is difficult to imagine a successful legal challenge.
slkhlaw - 03 Oct 2006 08:24 - 159 of 346
Huge losses for net gamblers
By James Quinn, Business Correspondent (Filed: 03/10/2006)
More than 3.5bn was wiped from the value of Britain's leading internet gaming companies, with PartyGaming, the world's biggest online poker company, seeing its market value slashed by 2.5bn.
The price collapse saw its shares plummet 62 to 45p a 58pc fall which means the shares are highly likely to be removed from the FTSE 100 blue-chip index at the next FTSE reshuffle in December.
PartyGaming, the world's biggest poker site, had a market value of 4.28bn at the close of trading on Friday. When it opens this morning, that value will have fallen to just 1.8bn, some 1bn less than a new company would need to be capitalised at to enter the FTSE 100.
Its removal from the FTSE 100 would end a remarkable 16 months for the company, which at its peak was worth 7bn more than twice the market capitalisation of British Airways.
But PartyGaming was just one of many sufferers in the market yesterday, with fellow sizeable online gamers such as Sportingbet and 888 Holdings bearing the brunt of the effects of the new bill, which follows a number of high-profile arrests in the sector.
Sportingbet, whose chairman Peter Dicks was released from US custody on Friday after the Governor of New York chose not to sign an extradition order requested by the state of Louisiana, saw its shares fall from 184.25p to 73p, a 60.3pc fall.
Shares in 888 Holdings, whose flotation chief executive John Anderson stepped down recently, fell 26.1pc, off 38.25 to 108.25p.
Gigi Levy, who replaced Mr Anderson as 888's chief executive, told The Daily Telegraph: "It is the end of online gambling in the US as we know it. This is the first time a federal bill has been passed that specifically deals with online gambling.
"In the past all the others were old acts that had to be tweaked, like the wire act. The big thing here is that we now have a clear congressional view to say it is illegal."
The new federal law relating to internet gambing was passed late on Friday as part of the Safe Port Act in the US, designed to combat terrorist activities at American ports, which at the last minute had certain provisions known as the 'Unlawful Gambling Internet Act of 2006' inserted into it. The Act is expected to be signed by President Bush who has used his veto just once in his near-six years as President - within 14 days.
The effect of the new law, which will be implemented within 270 days, will make it illegal for banks and credit card companies to process online gaming payments from the US. Both PartyGaming and 888 announced they were suspending real-money US transactions, while Sportingbet said it intended to comply with the new law.
Lawyers for all the big companies involved in the sector are understood to have considered the viability of a legal challenge, but the legislation is thought to be so watertight that such a challenge would be futile.
Online gambling groups are now expected to refocus on European and Asian markets.
By James Quinn, Business Correspondent (Filed: 03/10/2006)
More than 3.5bn was wiped from the value of Britain's leading internet gaming companies, with PartyGaming, the world's biggest online poker company, seeing its market value slashed by 2.5bn.
The price collapse saw its shares plummet 62 to 45p a 58pc fall which means the shares are highly likely to be removed from the FTSE 100 blue-chip index at the next FTSE reshuffle in December.
PartyGaming, the world's biggest poker site, had a market value of 4.28bn at the close of trading on Friday. When it opens this morning, that value will have fallen to just 1.8bn, some 1bn less than a new company would need to be capitalised at to enter the FTSE 100.
Its removal from the FTSE 100 would end a remarkable 16 months for the company, which at its peak was worth 7bn more than twice the market capitalisation of British Airways.
But PartyGaming was just one of many sufferers in the market yesterday, with fellow sizeable online gamers such as Sportingbet and 888 Holdings bearing the brunt of the effects of the new bill, which follows a number of high-profile arrests in the sector.
Sportingbet, whose chairman Peter Dicks was released from US custody on Friday after the Governor of New York chose not to sign an extradition order requested by the state of Louisiana, saw its shares fall from 184.25p to 73p, a 60.3pc fall.
Shares in 888 Holdings, whose flotation chief executive John Anderson stepped down recently, fell 26.1pc, off 38.25 to 108.25p.
Gigi Levy, who replaced Mr Anderson as 888's chief executive, told The Daily Telegraph: "It is the end of online gambling in the US as we know it. This is the first time a federal bill has been passed that specifically deals with online gambling.
"In the past all the others were old acts that had to be tweaked, like the wire act. The big thing here is that we now have a clear congressional view to say it is illegal."
The new federal law relating to internet gambing was passed late on Friday as part of the Safe Port Act in the US, designed to combat terrorist activities at American ports, which at the last minute had certain provisions known as the 'Unlawful Gambling Internet Act of 2006' inserted into it. The Act is expected to be signed by President Bush who has used his veto just once in his near-six years as President - within 14 days.
The effect of the new law, which will be implemented within 270 days, will make it illegal for banks and credit card companies to process online gaming payments from the US. Both PartyGaming and 888 announced they were suspending real-money US transactions, while Sportingbet said it intended to comply with the new law.
Lawyers for all the big companies involved in the sector are understood to have considered the viability of a legal challenge, but the legislation is thought to be so watertight that such a challenge would be futile.
Online gambling groups are now expected to refocus on European and Asian markets.
e t - 03 Oct 2006 09:05 - 160 of 346
way things are shaping up this is going to fly straight past the 250 and join Sportingbet in AIM !!!!!
slkhlaw - 03 Oct 2006 12:46 - 161 of 346
I have thought about how the US could bar their citizens from visiting these gambling sites, and thought it may not be possible US implement a super proxy server that would filter all visits to these gambling sites from America. Never thought they would bar the transactions.
Anyway, looking at how things are developing. One could pray President Bush is going to use his veto (Not likely) or one could buy into the upside that Party Gaming still have 270 days to get its lawyers together to challenge the Act.
I can see a lot of gambling companies would be issuing profit warning in weeks/months to come. Abandon ship while you still can afford to absorb the loses. After two of such warnings that comes along, you will be down with the sinking ship.
Anyway, looking at how things are developing. One could pray President Bush is going to use his veto (Not likely) or one could buy into the upside that Party Gaming still have 270 days to get its lawyers together to challenge the Act.
I can see a lot of gambling companies would be issuing profit warning in weeks/months to come. Abandon ship while you still can afford to absorb the loses. After two of such warnings that comes along, you will be down with the sinking ship.
stockbunny
- 03 Oct 2006 13:54
- 162 of 346
PRTY divi has now been cancelled.
axdpc
- 03 Oct 2006 14:45
- 163 of 346
To me, a cancelled divi means the share is not worth 40p, probably not even 20p.
Only IMHO, NAG, DYOR etc.
Only IMHO, NAG, DYOR etc.
HARRYCAT
- 03 Oct 2006 14:49
- 164 of 346
Interesting to see if 888 cancel both of their divi's on the 11th Oct.
slkhlaw - 03 Oct 2006 16:01 - 165 of 346
I have my own way of valuing the stock, based on my calculation, not to disappoint those who are already deep in red, I think there will be many more profit warning to come and there is still a very long downward trend to follow from this position. But again, I won't go short my position to prove me right. I will avoid this share, there are plenty of other shares which has better prospects and does not have its entire market exposure built around one geographical area alone.
stockbunny
- 03 Oct 2006 16:14
- 166 of 346
Err PRTY? it's ENTIRE market exposure is not in the US sikhlaw, a high % may have been but not the entire market. Sorry but felt that needed correction.
cynic
- 03 Oct 2006 16:42
- 167 of 346
if the consequences had not been so dire for some "friends" on here, could have been more jokey with posts/puns like "The party's over for PRTY", which I am afraid is the truth nevertheless.
axdpc
- 03 Oct 2006 18:39
- 168 of 346
PRTY may have been the largest online gaming company till Sat. But takes away the US, will it dominate in any other markets, may even had to be content with much less??? Low entry cost, good cash flow and high profit margins (eg. easy money) in online gaming will attract many able and determined competitors.
cynic
- 03 Oct 2006 18:53
- 169 of 346
UKB is already well established and totally non-US involved
slkhlaw - 04 Oct 2006 08:37 - 170 of 346
stockbunny, I think you are right. It is only 90% of the revenue generated from US. I do apologise for the mistake.
stockbunny
- 04 Oct 2006 11:47
- 171 of 346
Interesting...notification of buy of PRTY shares by Barclays.
Fundamentalist
- 04 Oct 2006 13:00
- 172 of 346
Bunny
i see they dipped below the 3% last week but have just gone back above, may only have been very small transactions that took them either side or a cracking sell and rebuy (if they had sold their whole holding) - id guess its the former
i see they dipped below the 3% last week but have just gone back above, may only have been very small transactions that took them either side or a cracking sell and rebuy (if they had sold their whole holding) - id guess its the former
slkhlaw - 04 Oct 2006 13:15 - 173 of 346
Some of these institutions would like to bail themselves out so they issue a positive statements.
stockbunny
- 04 Oct 2006 13:28
- 174 of 346
Thanks Fundy, your thoughts are always sound :>)
e t - 05 Oct 2006 07:27 - 175 of 346
Daily Telegraph - 05/10/2006
Credit card punters face online betting ban - By Simon Goodley
Millions of UK credit card users could be blocked from betting online in the wake of the US Congress passing laws curbing payments for internet gambling in America. Two of the UK's most popular credit cards - MBNA and Capital One - have refused to rule out barring customers from gaming sites.
The news emerged after weekend moves to outlaw payments to online gambling sites by US-based banks and credit card firms - a development that saw the value of online gambling companies listed in London drop by 3.5bn on Monday.
APACS, the payment industry's trade association, predicted that some American companies operating in the UK could now look to impose a ban.
"They may take the decision because of corporate structure, if a chief executive knows that he risks arrest next time he steps off a plane in the US," said Sandra Quinn, the director of corporate communications for APACS.
A spokesman for MBNA, which has seven million credit cards out of a total British market of 69.9m, declined to rule out a policy change. "We're watching the developments in the US regarding the new legislation. It is a bit too early to say anything at the moment, but we will keep an eye on it," he said.
Meanwhile, Capital One, which has headquarters in Falls Church, Virginia, and has more than four million UK customers, said it was unable to make a comment, although Morgan Stanley insisted it had no plans to introduce a ban.
Despite online betting being completely legal in the UK, American Express blocked its card holders from placing online bets 10 years ago. Citibank followed lead two years ago when it justified its actions by saying it was applying "best practice established by Citi Cards in the US".
At the time, it added: "We believe that our action will help limit potential risks of fraud, money laundering and the often undesirable financial impact that gambling on credit may have on individuals, and is therefore in the best interests of Citi Cards UK and its customers."
rpaco
- 05 Oct 2006 17:24
- 176 of 346
Anyone reckon it will go lower than 28p.?
slkhlaw - 05 Oct 2006 18:55 - 177 of 346
Fair value according to my valuation is 16p or lower. So, if you ask me if it would go lower than 28p, the answer is yes, it will, probably after a few profit warnings.
HARRYCAT
- 05 Oct 2006 20:25
- 178 of 346
rpaco - that's almost a spread betting question. Are you playing the points game?
imo, with PRTY falling out of the FTSE, 28p is a distinct possibilty.
imo, with PRTY falling out of the FTSE, 28p is a distinct possibilty.
Fundamentalist
- 05 Oct 2006 20:33
- 179 of 346
slkhlaw
would you care to share the details behind your fair value of 16p ?
would you care to share the details behind your fair value of 16p ?
Bones
- 05 Oct 2006 21:02
- 180 of 346
The purpose of the dividend cancellation is not to "waste" over $100m on shareholders (the majority being the founders) now that the US cash flows have dried up. Better, they feel, to buy out at low prices the many distressed smaller operators who, along with their US players, will have a good database of European/Asian players up for grabs. Party will be aggressive in expanding market share now ex-USA, and there's a lot to go for. The smaller operators will be swallowed up big time by the big players.
This was always likely over time but it is now urgent. It wouldn't surprise me if UKBetting is one of the targets (given UKB's announcement). Party already have Gamebookers but an extension of their non-poker interests ex-USA is sensible.
Rumours of PRTY's demise is a touch premature methinks. The poker world ex-USA has a lot of expanding to do. Remember that the USA move is wholly rampant protectionism. All this morality talk is political hogwash.
This was always likely over time but it is now urgent. It wouldn't surprise me if UKBetting is one of the targets (given UKB's announcement). Party already have Gamebookers but an extension of their non-poker interests ex-USA is sensible.
Rumours of PRTY's demise is a touch premature methinks. The poker world ex-USA has a lot of expanding to do. Remember that the USA move is wholly rampant protectionism. All this morality talk is political hogwash.
HARRYCAT
- 05 Oct 2006 21:14
- 181 of 346
Fair enough, but approx 85% of PRTY revenue derived from the USA. They now have to return the stake money of all of those customers, some winners, some losers.
That leaves PRTY with a customer base of approx 15% of the original. Others now look to be in a stronger position, but I agree, PRTY not dead yet.
I wonder if they are regretting parting company with Empire Online way back.
That leaves PRTY with a customer base of approx 15% of the original. Others now look to be in a stronger position, but I agree, PRTY not dead yet.
I wonder if they are regretting parting company with Empire Online way back.
cynic
- 05 Oct 2006 21:17
- 182 of 346
PRTY may not yet be dead, but why stay around until the vultures arrive?
Bones
- 05 Oct 2006 21:59
- 183 of 346
you are a cynic, Cynic!
cynic
- 05 Oct 2006 22:04
- 184 of 346
but is it not a fair observation?
HARRYCAT
- 05 Oct 2006 22:16
- 185 of 346
Spot on for those not trapped in. Difficult to bear for those still holding.
AndrewThomson77
- 05 Oct 2006 22:17
- 186 of 346
On Working Lunch yesterday (wednesday), they gave PRTY a fair value of around 25p.
I don't hold this share.
I don't hold this share.
seawallwalker
- 05 Oct 2006 22:21
- 187 of 346
A born cynic.
Thank goodness for that!
Thank goodness for that!
Bones
- 06 Oct 2006 00:31
- 188 of 346
I'm commenting because I am interested to hear the "outsider's" viewpoint. By that I mean someone who maybe doesn't use the poker software. I play there occasionally and know the industry quite well, but have never owned any gaming shares including PRTY.
IMO Party will be aggressive with the rest of the world market and will make good money. However, the current share price is probably fair allowing even for that growth potential (ex-USA).
By the way, HTC, no-one is "trapped" in the share. They can sell and take the loss! Be glad it's a highly traded liquid share :)
IMO Party will be aggressive with the rest of the world market and will make good money. However, the current share price is probably fair allowing even for that growth potential (ex-USA).
By the way, HTC, no-one is "trapped" in the share. They can sell and take the loss! Be glad it's a highly traded liquid share :)
alanatml2 - 06 Oct 2006 07:42 - 189 of 346
It would seem that infringements of civil liberties are imposed by the republican Party in stopping gamblers transferring their funds through existing banking systems. Test cases by individuals against their banks will bedevil the new legislation for years. We await legal actions commencing as acts of gambling are NOT illegal at the point of sale. Transferring funds is NOT illegal at the point of contact between punter and bank.
stockbunny
- 06 Oct 2006 08:34
- 190 of 346
Yes it will be the enforcement of the law which will prove a very big headache and if you have a comitted gambler who has reasonable assets, there are several tax havens outside US legislation offshore that could be used as middle a/cs - how can you stop funds passing from one a/c to another if they are both banks? The purpose of the funds once their dock outside the US are a different matter. If people want to get round this they will - look at prohibition, did it stop booze?
rpaco
- 06 Oct 2006 12:22
- 191 of 346
Harrycat
No I'v lost enought spread betting, I loose it in different ways now. I am waiting to see the bottom, of PRTY well to try and guess wher it is and then to buy SE38 SG Covered warrant. Unfortunately they dont do a Put warrant on PRTY. At least you can only loose what you put in, on any deal with CWs though the various parameters that decide the price do erode the value on a time basis.
No I'v lost enought spread betting, I loose it in different ways now. I am waiting to see the bottom, of PRTY well to try and guess wher it is and then to buy SE38 SG Covered warrant. Unfortunately they dont do a Put warrant on PRTY. At least you can only loose what you put in, on any deal with CWs though the various parameters that decide the price do erode the value on a time basis.
rpaco
- 06 Oct 2006 12:26
- 192 of 346
On working lunch last week it was said 75% from USA not 85% hence my 28p guess. Have you studied the accounts? Though of course accounts can be made to look like anything you want.
I have about 6 different ways of determining the bottom but they all suffer from the same fault.
I have about 6 different ways of determining the bottom but they all suffer from the same fault.
rpaco
- 06 Oct 2006 12:27
- 193 of 346
Off to watch working lunch now. cheers!
HARRYCAT
- 06 Oct 2006 22:03
- 194 of 346
rpaco - I have seen figures of anything between 75% - 90% of PRTY exposure to the U.S., so it's difficult to make an accurate judgement. I would tend to assume a worst case scenario and work on 90%.
I would also be very tempted to just sit & watch for a while as far as PRTY is concerned. There are other safer stocks out there, even in the gaming sector.
I would also be very tempted to just sit & watch for a while as far as PRTY is concerned. There are other safer stocks out there, even in the gaming sector.
PapalPower
- 07 Oct 2006 07:16
- 195 of 346
PapalPower
- 07 Oct 2006 11:57
- 196 of 346
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?feed=FT&Date=20061006&ID=6084392
According to Jonathan M. Winer, a Washington attorney at Alston & Bird LLP who has closely monitored the WTO action, the legislation could well exacerbate the problems the US has already has with the WTO.
"To the extent that the legislation eliminates foreign competition for activities that remain lawful in the U.S., such as online betting on state-licensed horseracing, or state-licensed casino gambling that meets federal guidelines, there's no doubt it raises WTO issues," he said.
According to Jonathan M. Winer, a Washington attorney at Alston & Bird LLP who has closely monitored the WTO action, the legislation could well exacerbate the problems the US has already has with the WTO.
"To the extent that the legislation eliminates foreign competition for activities that remain lawful in the U.S., such as online betting on state-licensed horseracing, or state-licensed casino gambling that meets federal guidelines, there's no doubt it raises WTO issues," he said.
PapalPower
- 07 Oct 2006 18:06
- 197 of 346
cynic
- 07 Oct 2006 20:00
- 198 of 346
PP .... the Washington attornies and everyone may ultimately prove that the US "is breaking the law", but it is likely to be a long time coming to court and of course much longer until there is a definitve result and all appeals finished .... in the meantime, many of these internet gambling companies will be long finished
janetbennison - 08 Oct 2006 08:13 - 199 of 346
looks like the buyers in us are looking to take over online gaming business in the us. There could be quite a lot of action over the next few weeks. Look at the news in sunday times online out today. sportingbet have been approached by quite a few companies. If the gaming companies get taken over in us. Then the new rules and regulations with not affect us. Time for a cup of tea. Have a nice sunday everyone.
janetbennison - 08 Oct 2006 15:09 - 200 of 346
news just come out 2.45 uk government draws up plans for online betting report.
Greystone
- 09 Oct 2006 07:25
- 201 of 346
PARTYGAMING TO BE DELETED FROM FTSE 100
janetbennison - 09 Oct 2006 08:13 - 202 of 346
that does mot surprise me now it has dropped down to this current level.
MightyMicro
- 20 Oct 2006 11:03
- 203 of 346
Well, we can all be wrong, but opinions may vary . . .
Partygaming downgraded to 'SELL' by Numis Securities with 23 Pence target.
Dresdner Kleinwort maintain 'BUY' rating on Partygaming, current price target 56 Pence (cut from 75p).
Partygaming downgraded to 'SELL' by Numis Securities with 23 Pence target.
Dresdner Kleinwort maintain 'BUY' rating on Partygaming, current price target 56 Pence (cut from 75p).
cynic
- 20 Oct 2006 11:11
- 204 of 346
my money would go to Numis ..... but then my money would not be in PRTY anyway!
HARRYCAT
- 20 Oct 2006 11:19
- 205 of 346
I think the thing that is saving PRTY from collapse is the fact that it has big cash reserves, even allowing for the $250m write down for lost U.S. business.
IMO it's has got to acquire a bigger market share, so maybe it is seeking targets???
The 23p must be a projected valuation based on the remaining 15% of it's business, much the same way as SBT was revalued.
M or A has got to be the way forward.
IMO it's has got to acquire a bigger market share, so maybe it is seeking targets???
The 23p must be a projected valuation based on the remaining 15% of it's business, much the same way as SBT was revalued.
M or A has got to be the way forward.
axdpc
- 20 Oct 2006 18:03
- 206 of 346
With the money taken off the table during float, the founders can easily setup an US online gambling operation - if they are willing to face US revenue authority scrutiny and pay US taxes.
Anyone know the current PRTY cash reserve per share? Thanks.
axdpc
- 20 Oct 2006 21:14
- 207 of 346
"Online gambling group Partygaming has said that restructuring its business after pulling out of the US will cost it about $250m (133m)." (BBC Business)
Why?
Why?
bonfield - 23 Oct 2006 09:17 - 208 of 346
it's a goodwill write off, (intangibles) not a cash loss.
TANKER - 23 Oct 2006 11:14 - 209 of 346
buy this should be 40p ,
rpaco
- 24 Oct 2006 16:40
- 210 of 346
The recent results look very good on the non USA business how many other companies have gains of 158% in turnover in a quater. Obviously you can di anything with the figures and they are trying to be seen in the best light, but compares to SEO's board they are supersonic genii (or geniuses)
rpaco
- 24 Oct 2006 16:44
- 211 of 346
Tanker well I bought SE38 instead http://uk.warrants.com/services/quotes/details.php?code=SE38 (This link thing looks very wrong. )
rpaco
- 24 Oct 2006 16:46
- 212 of 346
Sorry about my dyslexic fingers
Harry6
- 25 Oct 2006 17:25
- 213 of 346
15 million PRTY shares bought after the bell tonight at 29.23.
axdpc
- 26 Oct 2006 13:37
- 214 of 346
For all companies in which we invest, we have to ponder seriously whether the company and its staff (especially the managements and executives) will not act against, sacrifice or ignore the interests of ordinary shareholders for the benefit of themselves and large shareholders.
Small shareholders without access to insiders suffer from many extra risks and penalities.
Small shareholders without access to insiders suffer from many extra risks and penalities.
cynic
- 26 Oct 2006 13:42
- 215 of 346
i know i keep saying this, but be aware that a buy of any size can very easily be someone closing a short position ..... this will apply especially with the likes of PRTY and SBT and CPW where there are some huge short positions in place
axdpc
- 27 Oct 2006 00:56
- 216 of 346
cynic, thanks for the reminder.
I have another reason for being extra cautious on PRTY. IMHO, US IR may still be interested in pursuing the founders, past and current senior staff, wherever they are. If US can be concerned about 3m to extradite the Barclay bankers, then the incentives are much greater to find ways to "recover" $100m's for the US taxpayer. Image also the name one can make for oneself if one can claim credit for adding $100m's to the US treasury ...
Only IMHO, NAG etc
I have another reason for being extra cautious on PRTY. IMHO, US IR may still be interested in pursuing the founders, past and current senior staff, wherever they are. If US can be concerned about 3m to extradite the Barclay bankers, then the incentives are much greater to find ways to "recover" $100m's for the US taxpayer. Image also the name one can make for oneself if one can claim credit for adding $100m's to the US treasury ...
Only IMHO, NAG etc
hangon - 28 Oct 2006 14:01 - 217 of 346
OK, OK we know most of the bad news, mainly that there will be no easy-money from the US, where it was easy taking their dollars so easily. For that the sp has fallen from c.4 to abt 30p now. [EDIT: peak price was just over 1.50]
PRTY owns a database (of willing US-punters), that many US-based gaming businesses will be willing to buy. Either for cash, or maybe a share in new business, who knows?
However, as far as we know, PRTY has cash; + it stopped paying the dividend which was abt 2% ( at today's sp, about 26% yield.[EDIT: 9%])...used to buy other businesses in Europe and the Far East where I understand they continue to make profits - anyone here of a Gambling disposition - IS this TRUE?
Furthermore the sp fall may have been MM's making hay, knowing that Institutions would sell their stash once the stock is kicked out of the FTSE rankings......a no-brainer IMHO.....so MMs are at levels that they can't believe, since I doubt many PI's have bought the surplus, neatly explaining the 13x fall in sp (and maybe nearer 15x).
PRTY is ISA-able being full list and there is every hope that it will climb-back....since it's only the "Selling-Off" that caused the fall.
It is true that income will be down, but profitability should not be affected, since I understand the "Write-down" is a goodwill exercise - it is not PRTY paying cash so they can walk away from the US.
There may be US-led calls to extradite execs - but what is legal here (and was there by many heads)...puts the US-extradition into focus in the same way it has with the so-called Nat-West four.............but the US-favoured Treaty was intended to catch international Terrorists - not petty city types employed by Banks, or game-companies.........therefore I suspect any high-jinks with UK Execs will soon back-fire and the US Authorities will be told what to do....starting with Human Rights (oops!) of their own regime.
............Is PRTY a good BUY...........?
Dunno, even though I have a few at 30p in my ISA and a few in certificated form, soon sitting in the Bank, that way I should get the paperwork and maybe a free spin of a roulette wheel at the AGM, flanked by some heavy bunnies. Investment neednt be taxing, to mis-quote a slogan. If they reach 1 and restore the 2% dividend , that will pay me the equivalent of 6.5% which can't be bad on a stock that has most of the BAD news in the price and almost none of the Good News anywhere to be seen. If it reaches just 50% of earlier levels (2 say) the yield equiv is over 12%....maybe in four year's time if I'm lucky........
Has anyone access to recent REFS?
What is the historical NAV/Cash etc?
Anyone that is still Holding, what are yr views and why didn't you sell when the news broke some months ago? Would be interesting.
Cynic...I don't short...you obviously know the technique - if a shorter closes their position I presume thay (presently) will be taking a Profit and "think" it is unlikely to go lower........so why isn't this a good time to buy or take a position expecting a rise? Yr thoughts looked at the other way, perhaps?
PRTY owns a database (of willing US-punters), that many US-based gaming businesses will be willing to buy. Either for cash, or maybe a share in new business, who knows?
However, as far as we know, PRTY has cash; + it stopped paying the dividend which was abt 2% ( at today's sp, about 26% yield.[EDIT: 9%])...used to buy other businesses in Europe and the Far East where I understand they continue to make profits - anyone here of a Gambling disposition - IS this TRUE?
Furthermore the sp fall may have been MM's making hay, knowing that Institutions would sell their stash once the stock is kicked out of the FTSE rankings......a no-brainer IMHO.....so MMs are at levels that they can't believe, since I doubt many PI's have bought the surplus, neatly explaining the 13x fall in sp (and maybe nearer 15x).
PRTY is ISA-able being full list and there is every hope that it will climb-back....since it's only the "Selling-Off" that caused the fall.
It is true that income will be down, but profitability should not be affected, since I understand the "Write-down" is a goodwill exercise - it is not PRTY paying cash so they can walk away from the US.
There may be US-led calls to extradite execs - but what is legal here (and was there by many heads)...puts the US-extradition into focus in the same way it has with the so-called Nat-West four.............but the US-favoured Treaty was intended to catch international Terrorists - not petty city types employed by Banks, or game-companies.........therefore I suspect any high-jinks with UK Execs will soon back-fire and the US Authorities will be told what to do....starting with Human Rights (oops!) of their own regime.
............Is PRTY a good BUY...........?
Dunno, even though I have a few at 30p in my ISA and a few in certificated form, soon sitting in the Bank, that way I should get the paperwork and maybe a free spin of a roulette wheel at the AGM, flanked by some heavy bunnies. Investment neednt be taxing, to mis-quote a slogan. If they reach 1 and restore the 2% dividend , that will pay me the equivalent of 6.5% which can't be bad on a stock that has most of the BAD news in the price and almost none of the Good News anywhere to be seen. If it reaches just 50% of earlier levels (2 say) the yield equiv is over 12%....maybe in four year's time if I'm lucky........
Has anyone access to recent REFS?
What is the historical NAV/Cash etc?
Anyone that is still Holding, what are yr views and why didn't you sell when the news broke some months ago? Would be interesting.
Cynic...I don't short...you obviously know the technique - if a shorter closes their position I presume thay (presently) will be taking a Profit and "think" it is unlikely to go lower........so why isn't this a good time to buy or take a position expecting a rise? Yr thoughts looked at the other way, perhaps?
cynic
- 28 Oct 2006 16:28
- 218 of 346
not necessarily .... shorter may well be happy with his profit and decide to take money off the table, especially with w/e looming ..... PRTY have already taken such a hammering, and there is only about 30p left ...... a shorter may also feel that (a) a bear squeeze is a possibility and (b) that there are easier picking elsewhere - e.g. CPW or perhaps WPP ..... as for buying, reckon anyone must be nuts! .... only marginally better bet that OXS!!
Frampton - 28 Oct 2006 17:26 - 219 of 346
Which company are you looking at Hangon? I can't see that PRTY ever made it to 2, let alone 4.
maestro - 29 Oct 2006 08:29 - 220 of 346
forget party..poker is just a fad,get into sportingbet,..always be around
maestro - 29 Oct 2006 08:41 - 221 of 346
then again 20% rise tomoro..
The Sunday Times October 29, 2006
Gaming sites in 1.6bn merger talks
Louise Armitstead and Matthew Goodman
TWO of the biggest UK-listed online poker operators, Party Gaming and 888 Holdings, have held preliminary talks about a possible merger to create a 1.6 billion company.
Both firms have been trying to find a way to cope after sales were hit by the introduction of laws banning online gambling in America.
Party Gaming, the worlds biggest online poker group, fell out of the elite FTSE 100 group of companies, while 888 Holdings dropped out of the FTSE 250 index. Their shares collapsed when both firms said they would cease trading in America.
Executives from the two companies have in the past couple of weeks held exploratory talks to combine their pool of online players. It is expected that further talks will be held in the coming weeks. It is one of several options being considered by both companies and their rivals.
One insider said: All the players have been talking to each other for weeks. At one stage there were plans for attempting a multi-company merger but it was decided that this would be too difficult and that one merger at a time would be quicker.
He added: The biggest problem facing gaming companies is that each ones pool of players has been dramatically reduced by the removal of the American market. Now when players sign on, there are a lot fewer people to play against, which means even those that are legally allowed to play are finding it less interesting.
Other firms also trying to find ways to consolidate include Sportingbet, the AIM-quoted company whose former chairman, Peter Dicks, was arrested in America last month, Excapsa, which is also listed on AIM, and Bwin, an Austrian internet betting firm.
The big gaming companies are looking to acquire rivals that have a strong European or Asian presence. For example, Party Gaming has been linked with a deal to buy Gamesys, which is big on the Continent, and Victor Chandler, the bookmaker that has the biggest player base in Asia.
Ten days ago when Party Gaming released its key performance indicators for the third quarter, Mitch Garber chief executive, told analysts the company was in talks with several parties. Two weeks ago, Garber told The Sunday Times: Consolidation is, in my view, the most sensible way to grow the business right now.
Party Gaming was floated on the London Stock Exchange last year despite its prospectus containing 33 pages warning of risks such as a block on money transmission. The firm earned 85% of its revenues from US clients using its internet services.
In the past month Party Gamings shares have slumped 70% to 30p. Over the same period 888 fell 24% and closed on Friday at 108p.
The Sunday Times October 29, 2006
Gaming sites in 1.6bn merger talks
Louise Armitstead and Matthew Goodman
TWO of the biggest UK-listed online poker operators, Party Gaming and 888 Holdings, have held preliminary talks about a possible merger to create a 1.6 billion company.
Both firms have been trying to find a way to cope after sales were hit by the introduction of laws banning online gambling in America.
Party Gaming, the worlds biggest online poker group, fell out of the elite FTSE 100 group of companies, while 888 Holdings dropped out of the FTSE 250 index. Their shares collapsed when both firms said they would cease trading in America.
Executives from the two companies have in the past couple of weeks held exploratory talks to combine their pool of online players. It is expected that further talks will be held in the coming weeks. It is one of several options being considered by both companies and their rivals.
One insider said: All the players have been talking to each other for weeks. At one stage there were plans for attempting a multi-company merger but it was decided that this would be too difficult and that one merger at a time would be quicker.
He added: The biggest problem facing gaming companies is that each ones pool of players has been dramatically reduced by the removal of the American market. Now when players sign on, there are a lot fewer people to play against, which means even those that are legally allowed to play are finding it less interesting.
Other firms also trying to find ways to consolidate include Sportingbet, the AIM-quoted company whose former chairman, Peter Dicks, was arrested in America last month, Excapsa, which is also listed on AIM, and Bwin, an Austrian internet betting firm.
The big gaming companies are looking to acquire rivals that have a strong European or Asian presence. For example, Party Gaming has been linked with a deal to buy Gamesys, which is big on the Continent, and Victor Chandler, the bookmaker that has the biggest player base in Asia.
Ten days ago when Party Gaming released its key performance indicators for the third quarter, Mitch Garber chief executive, told analysts the company was in talks with several parties. Two weeks ago, Garber told The Sunday Times: Consolidation is, in my view, the most sensible way to grow the business right now.
Party Gaming was floated on the London Stock Exchange last year despite its prospectus containing 33 pages warning of risks such as a block on money transmission. The firm earned 85% of its revenues from US clients using its internet services.
In the past month Party Gamings shares have slumped 70% to 30p. Over the same period 888 fell 24% and closed on Friday at 108p.
janetbennison - 29 Oct 2006 09:42 - 222 of 346
maestro headline in the business column in sunday times online that party gaming and 888 gaming sites are in preliminary talks re a 1.9 billion pound possible merger. Todays times on line have a look and see what you think. Looks like your party gaming shares will shoot up tomorrow every one will be buying hoping that this will go ahead.
hangon - 29 Oct 2006 11:43 - 223 of 346
Frampton, you are right....must be mad, me! I have EDITed the earlier posting as it affected both fall% and Yield.
At the time I was unaware of two pieces of News:
1) That PRTY and ANOther might merge to boost their "play-value", others here think this might help the sp....(Sun Times discusses this and here, too)
2) UK Government to have Euro-Plus talks aimed at countering the US "heavy-hand" - folk will be aware that Prohibition in 1920 created the financial muscle for organised crime (esp US_based) which we have to this day. Legit outlets for gambling bring in plenty of revenue to the Exchequer and some regulation can reduce its worst effects.
Thanks also to Maestro for yr comments.
I have to take this on the chin, but the two above events.... look like I have a slightly greater chance of winning (for once!).
At the time I was unaware of two pieces of News:
1) That PRTY and ANOther might merge to boost their "play-value", others here think this might help the sp....(Sun Times discusses this and here, too)
2) UK Government to have Euro-Plus talks aimed at countering the US "heavy-hand" - folk will be aware that Prohibition in 1920 created the financial muscle for organised crime (esp US_based) which we have to this day. Legit outlets for gambling bring in plenty of revenue to the Exchequer and some regulation can reduce its worst effects.
Thanks also to Maestro for yr comments.
I have to take this on the chin, but the two above events.... look like I have a slightly greater chance of winning (for once!).
HARRYCAT
- 29 Oct 2006 11:54
- 224 of 346
So, the choices are: buy in short term & hope for a bounce on rumour.
Buy in for the long term & expect PRTY shares to be re-issued as .........? (which in itself is going to be interesting as, if PRTY & 888 get together, how will they value each other's shares?)
Or don't buy at all, I hear someone say!
Buy in for the long term & expect PRTY shares to be re-issued as .........? (which in itself is going to be interesting as, if PRTY & 888 get together, how will they value each other's shares?)
Or don't buy at all, I hear someone say!
zscrooge
- 29 Oct 2006 14:45
- 225 of 346
Is it the case that EK lost heavily? Shame.
Paulo2
- 29 Oct 2006 20:23
- 226 of 346
He shorted PRTY and NLR but lost out on SBT.
cynic
- 31 Oct 2006 08:37
- 227 of 346
I am puzzled ..... if all the open and admitted talk of a merger between PRTY and 888, why have neither SPs moved?
HARRYCAT
- 31 Oct 2006 08:48
- 228 of 346
888 has gone up 10% since the news.
Also, if these two are now in bed together, who is knocking at 365/UKB's door?
Also, if these two are now in bed together, who is knocking at 365/UKB's door?
cynic
- 31 Oct 2006 09:03
- 229 of 346
wish someone damn well would!!
hlyeo98 - 31 Oct 2006 11:27 - 230 of 346
The gaming shares are not moving today because the government is today having a debate on online gambling restriction...looks like more laws coming into UK as well...these shares may go down further
cynic
- 31 Oct 2006 11:50
- 231 of 346
Have made a couple of comments on the GOO thread about PRTY ...... in very brief, after consideration i still think this share should be avoided ..... company cannot possibly justify a cap of 1.2 billion when all 80/90% of its biz came from US and its gaming site is now apparently deserted.
market seems to know best!
market seems to know best!
HARRYCAT
- 31 Oct 2006 12:33
- 232 of 346
I can't believe that you even considered it! Maybe SBT as a short term punt. It's reasonably easy to make +/-10% with SBT, but if the PRTY / 888 venture doesn't matierialise, what then.........? Scary thought. IMO watch only.
cynic
- 31 Oct 2006 12:36
- 233 of 346
almost got greedy! ..... almost fatal error of assuming that just because price has bombed, it must be cheap
axdpc
- 31 Oct 2006 12:46
- 234 of 346
IMO, the PRTY founders and staff were OTT greedy during the initial float. The
limited free-float may have helped to push up prices and PRTY into the FTSE100 but they are now a liability to the SP. I don't think the ordinary shareholders will receive much, if any, of the cash that PRTY still holds.
There are probably money to be made if one play it righ or have access to reliable insider information but too risky for me for now.
All IMHO, DYOR, NAG etc
limited free-float may have helped to push up prices and PRTY into the FTSE100 but they are now a liability to the SP. I don't think the ordinary shareholders will receive much, if any, of the cash that PRTY still holds.
There are probably money to be made if one play it righ or have access to reliable insider information but too risky for me for now.
All IMHO, DYOR, NAG etc
hangon - 01 Nov 2006 18:16 - 235 of 346
Having bought at 30p I'm biased, but spread is still tight....I agree there is uncertainty over any Merger - but wonder if that isn't doing "something" rather than nothing? For, it doesn't increase the number of players, just moves them about and in all probability some are registered on both Sites.
/
About the UK Government:
The Politic Show on BBC2, ran with the Ascot-story and comments on the US heavy-hand were rife, indeed it has more to do with US-Election than saving Americans from their addictions ....and I read that PRTY has plans to offer so-called Free gambling on things that aren't covered by the new (US)Laws.
In the UK, the Government sees the US-law issue as dictating internal policy and we know UK Gov is keen to have "SuperCasinos" ( but Why? - to add to the UK TAX-take!)....so arranging some framework that is acceptable to Europeans and Asia "might" ward-off any further encroachment of UK Sovergnity
However, comments (here) about PRTY Bosses and the Lauch Money are worrying - perhaps these Execs need to be removed from Office....(US - help!)...to be replaced by a reigeme where Players' Losses don't ruin their fun.
This is a business that is a "route to loot" - there is nothing to manufacture and distribution is "almost free" .....so DO NOT BE Greedy, should be their cornerstone/Motto.........as to the SP......Dunno - maybe it was overvalued - maybe it's oversold......OR, NOT?..... PRTY recovered from a recent Low - so 29/30 is already higher+steady than it was......
I'm Holding ....for some more news.
Have they had an AGM...did anyone go, ...what was the mood?
/
About the UK Government:
The Politic Show on BBC2, ran with the Ascot-story and comments on the US heavy-hand were rife, indeed it has more to do with US-Election than saving Americans from their addictions ....and I read that PRTY has plans to offer so-called Free gambling on things that aren't covered by the new (US)Laws.
In the UK, the Government sees the US-law issue as dictating internal policy and we know UK Gov is keen to have "SuperCasinos" ( but Why? - to add to the UK TAX-take!)....so arranging some framework that is acceptable to Europeans and Asia "might" ward-off any further encroachment of UK Sovergnity
However, comments (here) about PRTY Bosses and the Lauch Money are worrying - perhaps these Execs need to be removed from Office....(US - help!)...to be replaced by a reigeme where Players' Losses don't ruin their fun.
This is a business that is a "route to loot" - there is nothing to manufacture and distribution is "almost free" .....so DO NOT BE Greedy, should be their cornerstone/Motto.........as to the SP......Dunno - maybe it was overvalued - maybe it's oversold......OR, NOT?..... PRTY recovered from a recent Low - so 29/30 is already higher+steady than it was......
I'm Holding ....for some more news.
Have they had an AGM...did anyone go, ...what was the mood?
axdpc
- 01 Nov 2006 22:20
- 236 of 346
hangon,
Outlook may be less gloomy if Democrat controls both houses and perhaps even a Democrat president.
My opinions on PRTY are just that, opinions.
I avoided the float and investment because I sensed excessive naked greed. TOO much was being taken off the table. Ordinary punters usually carry the risk and provided riches to a few.
Very cautious. Still waiting for sub-20p before making a decision. Not fussed if I miss out. With low overhead and running costs, PRTY should always be profitable, as long as you can trust the integrity of the executives and staff not to line the pockets of themselves, their relatives and associates first.
Again, all IMHO, NAG, DYOR ...
Outlook may be less gloomy if Democrat controls both houses and perhaps even a Democrat president.
My opinions on PRTY are just that, opinions.
I avoided the float and investment because I sensed excessive naked greed. TOO much was being taken off the table. Ordinary punters usually carry the risk and provided riches to a few.
Very cautious. Still waiting for sub-20p before making a decision. Not fussed if I miss out. With low overhead and running costs, PRTY should always be profitable, as long as you can trust the integrity of the executives and staff not to line the pockets of themselves, their relatives and associates first.
Again, all IMHO, NAG, DYOR ...
TANKER - 04 Nov 2006 11:16 - 237 of 346
take over on cards,
cynic
- 04 Nov 2006 11:38
- 238 of 346
who says and even if so, at what price? ...... cannot see any way that PRTY merits even its current market cap of 1.2 billion - can you?
HARRYCAT
- 04 Nov 2006 12:07
- 239 of 346
In the F.T. 4th Nov:
"An insider said PRTY was losing interest in 888 & was looking at strategic deals, with some of BWIN's empire & smaller size bingo & casino companies thought to be among it's targets".
"An insider said PRTY was losing interest in 888 & was looking at strategic deals, with some of BWIN's empire & smaller size bingo & casino companies thought to be among it's targets".
cynic
- 04 Nov 2006 15:22
- 240 of 346
and if you read that comment properly, it is all unsubstantiated waffle
HARRYCAT
- 04 Nov 2006 17:42
- 241 of 346
Ouch! I don't think Roger Blitz, the Leisure Industries correspondent to the F.T. is going to take kindly to that comment. :o)
And surely unsubstantiated rumour is what fuels the M & A gravy train!!!
And surely unsubstantiated rumour is what fuels the M & A gravy train!!!
cynic
- 04 Nov 2006 22:31
- 242 of 346
Grub Street serves it up .... the lemmings tuck in
axdpc
- 05 Nov 2006 20:44
- 243 of 346
Journists play a game of use and be used. The questions is why the insider wants us Joe punters know of this piece of news, anonymously, and why now.
IMHO, is it more likely 888 rejected the approach because it does not want to play second-fiddle or junior to PRTY who once had a commanding lead in market capitalisation and number of players. It is now a even playing field. PRTY has only one strength left - cash. PRTY probably wants to get a bargain or two, but hey, why should anyone sell at a bargain basement price to a company still sitting on lots of cash?
All IMHO, NAG, DYOR ...
IMHO, is it more likely 888 rejected the approach because it does not want to play second-fiddle or junior to PRTY who once had a commanding lead in market capitalisation and number of players. It is now a even playing field. PRTY has only one strength left - cash. PRTY probably wants to get a bargain or two, but hey, why should anyone sell at a bargain basement price to a company still sitting on lots of cash?
All IMHO, NAG, DYOR ...
maestro - 06 Nov 2006 00:29 - 244 of 346
888 to be bought by Labrokes.. 145p asking price a share...SBT.PRTY TO ROCKET TO MORO
hangon - 06 Nov 2006 11:37 - 245 of 346
I think PRTY should continue with its business and look for opportunities to buy clients ONLY if the price is right. Ladbrookes is a well-known co with similar interests (albiet in hard sites), so buying 888 is probably a sensible move.
Does anyone know the price Ladbrookes is paying for 888's (Customers+Cash, )?
- That might help to establish a rough figure for PRTY -
I agree with axdpc, ( 888 wouldn't like PRTY merger.) However, to say PRTY has only cash is over-simplification - They still have customers, still have cash rolling-in and they are on Ch5 TV most (late)nights. I think they have a reasonably decent business, even without the thick-jam that was US punters.
Anyone know what the situation is with the UK Gov....or was that posturing so the US magnate can run the M-Dome?
(Er, I thought the Dome was paid-for from our Lottery Funds - so how could our Government sell it?....must be me!)
Does anyone know the price Ladbrookes is paying for 888's (Customers+Cash, )?
- That might help to establish a rough figure for PRTY -
I agree with axdpc, ( 888 wouldn't like PRTY merger.) However, to say PRTY has only cash is over-simplification - They still have customers, still have cash rolling-in and they are on Ch5 TV most (late)nights. I think they have a reasonably decent business, even without the thick-jam that was US punters.
Anyone know what the situation is with the UK Gov....or was that posturing so the US magnate can run the M-Dome?
(Er, I thought the Dome was paid-for from our Lottery Funds - so how could our Government sell it?....must be me!)
cynic
- 06 Nov 2006 12:09
- 246 of 346
I'll say it again ...... why would anyone think PRTY was worth anything like 1.2 billion?
axdpc
- 06 Nov 2006 12:34
- 247 of 346
Money and power know no loyality. Poker punters can switch at a click.
Dome is worse than a scandle. Physically, dome is probably a good site for a casino.
What's PRTY's shares in issue?
Dome is worse than a scandle. Physically, dome is probably a good site for a casino.
What's PRTY's shares in issue?
cynic
- 06 Nov 2006 12:43
- 248 of 346
4,000 million .... so now you know from where i got market cap of 1.2 billion .... cannot be worth anything like that
axdpc
- 06 Nov 2006 17:21
- 249 of 346
cynic, I see your point. Assume cash of 200M = 5p per share. The rest is ???
Annual profit without US?
Hhhmmm, fair price of 10p??
Annual profit without US?
Hhhmmm, fair price of 10p??
cynic
- 06 Nov 2006 17:27
- 250 of 346
pretty much my point, though i am not nearly brave enough to go short without a lot more thought (i am incpabale of research and analysis as many here will tell you)
axdpc
- 06 Nov 2006 19:57
- 251 of 346
It is also neither difficult nor expensive to set up an online operation from scratch ...
For gambling operation with hard assets, it might be more advantageous to set up a
customised online operation leveraging existing assets. Punters will switch quick enough when the advertisements start.
For gambling operation with hard assets, it might be more advantageous to set up a
customised online operation leveraging existing assets. Punters will switch quick enough when the advertisements start.
Fundamentalist
- 06 Nov 2006 20:30
- 252 of 346
axdpc
It is also neither difficult nor expensive to set up an online operation from scratch
you say that but betfair has recently decided to go it alone and launch an independent poker site. To do so they actually bought pokerchamps (a small barely used site) and relaunched it as betfair poker. they have made a complete balls up of it and succeeded in losing a large amount of their previously loyal customer base due to poor software with a lot of problems and lack of reliability. They had an online Q&A session regarding the problems tonight - however they had to cancel it as all their staff were working on trying to get the site back up from its afternoon crash lol
It is also neither difficult nor expensive to set up an online operation from scratch
you say that but betfair has recently decided to go it alone and launch an independent poker site. To do so they actually bought pokerchamps (a small barely used site) and relaunched it as betfair poker. they have made a complete balls up of it and succeeded in losing a large amount of their previously loyal customer base due to poor software with a lot of problems and lack of reliability. They had an online Q&A session regarding the problems tonight - however they had to cancel it as all their staff were working on trying to get the site back up from its afternoon crash lol
axdpc
- 06 Nov 2006 22:30
- 253 of 346
Fundamentalist,
Explanations ...
From scratch I meant a bespoke system, not one bought, with warts, bugs, incorrect and incomplete documentations, from another company.
Not expensive because, IMHO, a system can be built for a few million GBP (less than 10M). An online poker system has fewer issues and costs concerning inventory, perishables, warehouses, logistics ... 10M is well within the financial means of companies like Ladbroke.
Not difficult because some part of the system can be built from components readily available, free or for a modest fee.
The single most important factor, also the most difficult, for success or failure is in obtaining and retaining conscientious, competent, honest and dedicated staff.
Explanations ...
From scratch I meant a bespoke system, not one bought, with warts, bugs, incorrect and incomplete documentations, from another company.
Not expensive because, IMHO, a system can be built for a few million GBP (less than 10M). An online poker system has fewer issues and costs concerning inventory, perishables, warehouses, logistics ... 10M is well within the financial means of companies like Ladbroke.
Not difficult because some part of the system can be built from components readily available, free or for a modest fee.
The single most important factor, also the most difficult, for success or failure is in obtaining and retaining conscientious, competent, honest and dedicated staff.
Fundamentalist
- 07 Nov 2006 00:10
- 254 of 346
axdpc
fully understand what you were saying - my post was a bit tongue in cheek as to how easily companies do get it wrong and also how easy it is for a poker site to completely alienate its customer base (which ultimately is is most of its value)
as someone who plays a lot of online poker i have a fair understanding of the business and have hence been very bearish on PRTY since the day it floated
fully understand what you were saying - my post was a bit tongue in cheek as to how easily companies do get it wrong and also how easy it is for a poker site to completely alienate its customer base (which ultimately is is most of its value)
as someone who plays a lot of online poker i have a fair understanding of the business and have hence been very bearish on PRTY since the day it floated
axdpc
- 07 Nov 2006 09:44
- 255 of 346
Fundamentalist, hope you didn't get caught in the fall ...
I don't play poker but I am always interested to know more of the poker business :-)
I don't play poker but I am always interested to know more of the poker business :-)
Fundamentalist
- 07 Nov 2006 10:04
- 256 of 346
axdpc
afraid to say i closed a short a few days before the big drop, have made a few quid from them on the way down but was a bit frustrating to miss the big fall, got misfooted by the US timing (i expected the outcome but thought it had missed the session :-( )
if anything you want to know re the poker business feel free to ask, either on here or via money am mail
afraid to say i closed a short a few days before the big drop, have made a few quid from them on the way down but was a bit frustrating to miss the big fall, got misfooted by the US timing (i expected the outcome but thought it had missed the session :-( )
if anything you want to know re the poker business feel free to ask, either on here or via money am mail
hangon - 09 Nov 2006 16:31 - 257 of 346
Is this co (PRTY) the same we see on TV Ch5 with PartyPoker logos and a rather large dealing table?
(on late, several evenings)
I't just not quite clear if they are one and the same co...and what will they get out of it, can you say?
(on late, several evenings)
I't just not quite clear if they are one and the same co...and what will they get out of it, can you say?
Fundamentalist
- 09 Nov 2006 17:15
- 258 of 346
hangon
yes one and the same, basically party poker is the poker website name and they sponsor the show on the basis of hoping viewers will sign up to play via there website
If you look on diff sky channels, you will see 888.com, ultimatepoker, poker heaven and many others sponsoring poker tv shows
yes one and the same, basically party poker is the poker website name and they sponsor the show on the basis of hoping viewers will sign up to play via there website
If you look on diff sky channels, you will see 888.com, ultimatepoker, poker heaven and many others sponsoring poker tv shows
hangon - 10 Nov 2006 14:57 - 259 of 346
Thanks fundamentalist, I don't take SKY, useful info though.
++Today I see a PRTY- exec. has exercised his options, so there's hope for the rest of us?
Tessa Jowell made a speech about gambling recently; has that faded away or may we see some Government action with European-wide legislation, perhaps?
Background:
I can understand US Gov wanting to protect its citizens, but I fail to understand there was anything underhand with PRTY (and Others), it was about as risky as playing poker anywhere . . . . . . . . . anyone?
++Today I see a PRTY- exec. has exercised his options, so there's hope for the rest of us?
Tessa Jowell made a speech about gambling recently; has that faded away or may we see some Government action with European-wide legislation, perhaps?
Background:
I can understand US Gov wanting to protect its citizens, but I fail to understand there was anything underhand with PRTY (and Others), it was about as risky as playing poker anywhere . . . . . . . . . anyone?
Fundamentalist
- 10 Nov 2006 16:51
- 260 of 346
Hangon
nothing to do with protecting its citizens imo more to do with stopping the outflow of US money to non US companies and being left to deal with any problem gamblers left
if they were that concerned then surely they'd have closed Vegas and stopped betting on Us horse racing (oh no i forogt, the US get a large tax take from those)
land of the free my arse
As for the UK the converse is true, as a lot of the companies are UK based and pay tax over here so they arent going to try and put a stop to it, but are likely to attempt to regulate it more.
As far as im concerned the one big problem with gambling (especially online) is the allowance of funding accounts via credit cards. This should be banned imo and people should have to have the cash to fund their accounts. This one step would remove a lot of the problems (and the high profile cases where people run up huge credit cards debts gambling)
nothing to do with protecting its citizens imo more to do with stopping the outflow of US money to non US companies and being left to deal with any problem gamblers left
if they were that concerned then surely they'd have closed Vegas and stopped betting on Us horse racing (oh no i forogt, the US get a large tax take from those)
land of the free my arse
As for the UK the converse is true, as a lot of the companies are UK based and pay tax over here so they arent going to try and put a stop to it, but are likely to attempt to regulate it more.
As far as im concerned the one big problem with gambling (especially online) is the allowance of funding accounts via credit cards. This should be banned imo and people should have to have the cash to fund their accounts. This one step would remove a lot of the problems (and the high profile cases where people run up huge credit cards debts gambling)
maestro - 02 Dec 2006 10:56 - 261 of 346
Antigua finds allies among super traders in Internet gaming dispute
published: Friday | December 1, 2006
A computer screen displays an online gambling website. Antigua's quarrel with the United States over market access to its gaming industry was back at the World Trade Organisation this week. - Reuters
The World Trade Organisation (WTO) held two days of talks at the top of the week on Antigua and Barbuda's internet gaming dispute with the United States, from which the twin-island emerged optimistic.
The WTO has ruled in the past that the U.S. was contravening world trade rules by blocking market access, but the large nation of 300 million has so far refused to comply.
Dr. Errol Cort, the finance minister of Antigua, a nation of 69,000, in a statement issued from Geneva said the Caribbean country's position was backed by big trading partners of the U.S., including China, Japan and members of the European Union.
"Major trading partners of the United States have seen it fit to join with us in contesting what we have always maintained is a dispute about granting market access," said Cort in a statement from Geneva, Switzerland, home of the WTO.
Remarkable
"What is even more remarkable is that they choose to become active players in this WTO process, and we believe that a crucial factor in their respective decisions to do so was the pure merits of our case."
The EU's stance on the issue was not surprising given the US$15.5 billion value tag on the industry and the fallout felt by mostly British-based online betting companies after U.S. president George W. Bush signed the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act into law, criminalising the processing and settlement of payment linked to online gaming transactions by banks and credit card companies.
Two of the largest companies immediately closed down their operations and exited the U.S. market, one of whom sold part of its operation to an Antigua-based company.
Sportingbet PLC and Leisure & Gaming PLC both sold their U.S. operations for a token US$1 days after the law took effect.
Off-loading debt
Sportingbet sold its U.S. sports-betting, casino business and poker operations to Antigua-based Jazette Enterprises Limited, off-loading US$13.2 million of debt in the process.
Jazette, as a condition of the deal, agreed not to take bets from non-U.S. residents for two years, and not to take bets from customers outside the Americas for three years.
PartyGaming PLC, the world's largest gambling company, also said it had suspended all real money gaming activities to customers in the United States.
Questions
Mark Mendel, Antigua and Barbuda's legal adviser, said the panel would have followed up the talks with a series of questions by Wednesday to the disputing parties, as well as third party interests, the answers to which were to submitted to the panel within a week.
A record of the hearings is to be published December 22, and an interim report on January 11.
"On receipt of the interim report, the parties will be given a period of time to submit their comments and observations on the panel's rulings and recommendations, before the final report is made available to the entire WTO membership sometime in early February 2007," said Cort's statement.
"We have every reason to be confident that - given the merits of our case and the fact that the U.S., having given an undertaking to do so, has done nothing to bring itself into compliance with rulings and recommendations of the DSB - we will prevail at this stage," said Kaye MacDonald, Antigua's Director of Gaming.
- CMC and Financial Gleaner reports
published: Friday | December 1, 2006
A computer screen displays an online gambling website. Antigua's quarrel with the United States over market access to its gaming industry was back at the World Trade Organisation this week. - Reuters
The World Trade Organisation (WTO) held two days of talks at the top of the week on Antigua and Barbuda's internet gaming dispute with the United States, from which the twin-island emerged optimistic.
The WTO has ruled in the past that the U.S. was contravening world trade rules by blocking market access, but the large nation of 300 million has so far refused to comply.
Dr. Errol Cort, the finance minister of Antigua, a nation of 69,000, in a statement issued from Geneva said the Caribbean country's position was backed by big trading partners of the U.S., including China, Japan and members of the European Union.
"Major trading partners of the United States have seen it fit to join with us in contesting what we have always maintained is a dispute about granting market access," said Cort in a statement from Geneva, Switzerland, home of the WTO.
Remarkable
"What is even more remarkable is that they choose to become active players in this WTO process, and we believe that a crucial factor in their respective decisions to do so was the pure merits of our case."
The EU's stance on the issue was not surprising given the US$15.5 billion value tag on the industry and the fallout felt by mostly British-based online betting companies after U.S. president George W. Bush signed the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act into law, criminalising the processing and settlement of payment linked to online gaming transactions by banks and credit card companies.
Two of the largest companies immediately closed down their operations and exited the U.S. market, one of whom sold part of its operation to an Antigua-based company.
Sportingbet PLC and Leisure & Gaming PLC both sold their U.S. operations for a token US$1 days after the law took effect.
Off-loading debt
Sportingbet sold its U.S. sports-betting, casino business and poker operations to Antigua-based Jazette Enterprises Limited, off-loading US$13.2 million of debt in the process.
Jazette, as a condition of the deal, agreed not to take bets from non-U.S. residents for two years, and not to take bets from customers outside the Americas for three years.
PartyGaming PLC, the world's largest gambling company, also said it had suspended all real money gaming activities to customers in the United States.
Questions
Mark Mendel, Antigua and Barbuda's legal adviser, said the panel would have followed up the talks with a series of questions by Wednesday to the disputing parties, as well as third party interests, the answers to which were to submitted to the panel within a week.
A record of the hearings is to be published December 22, and an interim report on January 11.
"On receipt of the interim report, the parties will be given a period of time to submit their comments and observations on the panel's rulings and recommendations, before the final report is made available to the entire WTO membership sometime in early February 2007," said Cort's statement.
"We have every reason to be confident that - given the merits of our case and the fact that the U.S., having given an undertaking to do so, has done nothing to bring itself into compliance with rulings and recommendations of the DSB - we will prevail at this stage," said Kaye MacDonald, Antigua's Director of Gaming.
- CMC and Financial Gleaner reports
janetbennison - 21 Sep 2007 15:14 - 262 of 346
party gaming is on the way back up again are any of you still in there?
annie38 - 21 Sep 2007 15:51 - 263 of 346
Hi. Janet: Presently sitting on 100k at ave. 29.45p. Not quite clear why this has bounced today. Still to research. Do you know ? Regards .
cynic
- 21 Sep 2007 16:10
- 264 of 346
oh dear! at least at 29.5 you have a chance of getting your money back, but should you see a profit (if you're lucky) then cut and run and thank your lucky stars.
janetbennison - 21 Sep 2007 16:12 - 265 of 346
I have no idea why they have gone up today, sportingbet have also gone up too.
amardev
- 17 Oct 2007 19:51
- 266 of 346
Hi all ........................ anybody out there still trading this one ... successfully?
Your views welcome on this topsy turvy ride.
Cheers
Amar
Your views welcome on this topsy turvy ride.
Cheers
Amar
HARRYCAT
- 17 Oct 2007 21:50
- 267 of 346
amardev - I can't believe you are still flogging this one!!
Your posts don't seem to appear on many other bbs, so do you trade other stocks or just PRTY? If you like gaming stocks, why not 888, SBT etc?
Of course, you have the right to trade whatever stocks you want, but why this one in particular?
Your posts don't seem to appear on many other bbs, so do you trade other stocks or just PRTY? If you like gaming stocks, why not 888, SBT etc?
Of course, you have the right to trade whatever stocks you want, but why this one in particular?
amardev
- 17 Oct 2007 23:20
- 268 of 346
Hi Harry ........... Thanks for you response.
Recent trading (2 months) AHT .. BB. ... ROK .... UTG .... WLW .... AVE
Must admit to trading in / out of each of these.
Currently looking at BDEV ... CSR .... MPI ....
I raised the question about PRTY because we were getting loads of postings, a few months back, when it was on the up ................ and now it's gone all quiet, because it drifted back.
I find other views interesting .......... whichever direction the stock is going .... or are we by nature, reluctant to talk when we get the stock picks wrong .... that's exactly when we need support from each other.
Cheers
Amar
Recent trading (2 months) AHT .. BB. ... ROK .... UTG .... WLW .... AVE
Must admit to trading in / out of each of these.
Currently looking at BDEV ... CSR .... MPI ....
I raised the question about PRTY because we were getting loads of postings, a few months back, when it was on the up ................ and now it's gone all quiet, because it drifted back.
I find other views interesting .......... whichever direction the stock is going .... or are we by nature, reluctant to talk when we get the stock picks wrong .... that's exactly when we need support from each other.
Cheers
Amar
maestro - 18 Oct 2007 05:11 - 269 of 346
Punting for England
Katie Allen
Wednesday October 17, 2007
Guardian Unlimited
The Rugby World Cup, and England's success in particular, has brought in a wave of business for bookmakers - both profitable and costly.
Spread-betting company Sporting Index says it has taken double the bets it had recevied at this stage of the tournament in 2003.
Spokesman Bill Esdaile says momentum has picked up in England's last three games.
"England have been underdogs for all these games. The punters have been siding with England and have made money," he says.
Article continues
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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"There has also been a lot of popular interest in Jonny Wilkinson."
For Saturday's final, Sporting Index is taking bets on the numbers of minutes before the England star attempts a drop goal. The expectation is 25 minutes at the moment.
One bet that is drawing in less serious punters is "Harry Spotter", based on the number of times ITV's coverage shows Prince Harry in the crowd. The prediction for that is once So if punters bet it will be more and ITV does indeed show the rugby fan more than once, Sporting index will have to pay out.
While the novelty bets attract a few pounds, spread betting companies have also seen massive sums at play.
City trader Simon Cawkwell, popularly know as Evil Knievel, bet against Sporting Index's predictions on how northern hemisphere teams would shape up against southern hemisphere teams. He cashed in at 250,000.
In Ireland, bookmakers have enjoyed a massive boost to their coffers thanks to England's progress.
"England's success throughout the tournament has been incredible for us because the majority of Irish punters have been looking to oppose England every time they play," said Leon Blanche at Irish bookmaker Boylesports. "An England victory would save us a 750,000 payout on South Africa. So that would really put the icing on the cake, ironically."
Katie Allen
Wednesday October 17, 2007
Guardian Unlimited
The Rugby World Cup, and England's success in particular, has brought in a wave of business for bookmakers - both profitable and costly.
Spread-betting company Sporting Index says it has taken double the bets it had recevied at this stage of the tournament in 2003.
Spokesman Bill Esdaile says momentum has picked up in England's last three games.
"England have been underdogs for all these games. The punters have been siding with England and have made money," he says.
Article continues
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There has also been a lot of popular interest in Jonny Wilkinson."
For Saturday's final, Sporting Index is taking bets on the numbers of minutes before the England star attempts a drop goal. The expectation is 25 minutes at the moment.
One bet that is drawing in less serious punters is "Harry Spotter", based on the number of times ITV's coverage shows Prince Harry in the crowd. The prediction for that is once So if punters bet it will be more and ITV does indeed show the rugby fan more than once, Sporting index will have to pay out.
While the novelty bets attract a few pounds, spread betting companies have also seen massive sums at play.
City trader Simon Cawkwell, popularly know as Evil Knievel, bet against Sporting Index's predictions on how northern hemisphere teams would shape up against southern hemisphere teams. He cashed in at 250,000.
In Ireland, bookmakers have enjoyed a massive boost to their coffers thanks to England's progress.
"England's success throughout the tournament has been incredible for us because the majority of Irish punters have been looking to oppose England every time they play," said Leon Blanche at Irish bookmaker Boylesports. "An England victory would save us a 750,000 payout on South Africa. So that would really put the icing on the cake, ironically."
guysands - 29 Oct 2007 10:00 - 270 of 346
This thread is quiet for a stock which is about to make a big move!
amardev
- 29 Oct 2007 10:04
- 271 of 346
Hi Guy ................. Agreed.
Didn't even get a response to my comment from 18th.
I'm in prty ........... looking for a breakout.
Cheers
Amar
Didn't even get a response to my comment from 18th.
I'm in prty ........... looking for a breakout.
Cheers
Amar
Nar1
- 29 Oct 2007 11:30
- 272 of 346
me too been in this for some time now looking for a nice profit
stroreysj - 22 Nov 2007 08:50 - 273 of 346
Its not looking all that positive at the moment but having said that the current downside might flush out many of the small fry presenting an opportunity to get in at an extremely low level.
Having read some of the earlier comments back in 2005 they were very illuminating in terms of what would likely happen if gaming became legal in the US, however, PRTY appear to be diverifying with the link up with sporting life recently and equally branching out in Germany and other parts of Europe. All of this seams positive for the long term but the Board of Directors are consistent sellers of stock which is a little unnerving
Having read some of the earlier comments back in 2005 they were very illuminating in terms of what would likely happen if gaming became legal in the US, however, PRTY appear to be diverifying with the link up with sporting life recently and equally branching out in Germany and other parts of Europe. All of this seams positive for the long term but the Board of Directors are consistent sellers of stock which is a little unnerving
cynic
- 22 Nov 2007 08:52
- 274 of 346
your last phrase says it all .... AVOID!
stroreysj - 22 Nov 2007 10:29 - 275 of 346
Cynic..having now read all 14 pages of the post its clear your not a lover of this stock (LOL). Having lost nearly 20k on paper over the last few weeks im not convinced its any less of a speculative punt than the financials. (still sitting on 25,000 shares at 31p). If it gets much closer to 20p the temptation will be too much to ignore unless the market continues to deteriate much more in which case im packing up and going on holiday till its shakes itself out.
cynic
- 22 Nov 2007 10:36
- 276 of 346
you're right ...... and i see no reason to change my view that i have held all along ..... AVOID like the plague and leave to maestro to do his bollox, though they are prob long goned
HARRYCAT
- 22 Nov 2007 10:45
- 277 of 346
All gaming stocks are pretty flat at the moment. Cash flow is still good for most of them (except 32RED) but the threat of outstanding U.S. arrest warrants still puts off most takeover bidders (SBT with BWIN). Best performing at the moment is probably 888, imo.
stroreysj - 26 Nov 2007 13:14 - 278 of 346
CEO today announnced that he has cancelled his sale programme and does not intend to sell any further shares. That is 5 million shares which will not hit the mkt. Cant decide whether this guy is finally understanding the concept of corporate responsibility or expects the shares to shoot up. Fingers crossed for the latter.
stroreysj - 30 Jan 2008 08:24 - 279 of 346
How when a company reports a 52% increase in earnings, is confident for the full year and has diversified its earning stream, does the SP still fall back. There is no logic to the market any more.
drrnrp - 19 Feb 2008 09:51 - 280 of 346
this is a 5 bagger at least put u mortgage on it i have
stroreysj - 19 Feb 2008 10:33 - 281 of 346
drrnrp the problem is the shares are a day traders dream as they are so cheap and there are so many out there meaning any rally gets snuffed out once there is a 1p movement. Although they may have a long term story alot of people got burnt and so momentum is difficult to whip up. As soon as i break even I am out as would rather but my money to better use.
drrnrp - 19 Feb 2008 15:06 - 282 of 346
totally understand but i never got my fingers burnt,believe i got in at nearly the bottom,time will tell respect
Nar1
- 19 Feb 2008 19:23
- 283 of 346
Long Termer
Tonker
- 19 Feb 2008 20:45
- 284 of 346
888 are doing really well at the moment.... I wonder how much higher they will go....
mrfrazee
- 20 Feb 2008 11:09
- 285 of 346
what chance of a new govt in usa overturning the online gaming law?
mashua - 20 Feb 2008 14:32 - 286 of 346
Not likely, gambling is against most of their ethics. Prty has a leish on it, there are two bots that kick in to keep the sp. where they want it.
I am holding
I am holding
mashua - 20 Feb 2008 14:33 - 287 of 346
USA does not make a great deal of difference, its when they open in China that we will see big profits IMHO
HARRYCAT
- 20 Feb 2008 15:11
- 288 of 346
Hate to disagree, but PRTY (also 888, SBT etc) went from 170p down to 25p purely on their loss of USA revenue stream. Asia has huge potential, but the U.S. was a huge blow to the industry.
drrnrp - 21 Feb 2008 08:48 - 289 of 346
yes long term who knows the future things can get overturned,this is a steal at current level 5 bagger at least dyor
cynic
- 21 Feb 2008 08:57
- 290 of 346
plenty for you to steal! .... fool's gold
drrnrp - 21 Feb 2008 09:01 - 291 of 346
is that an insult
cynic
- 21 Feb 2008 09:39
- 292 of 346
is this guy "drrnrp" merely "maestro" in another guise? ..... he certainly spouts a similar line in crap!
HARRYCAT
- 21 Feb 2008 10:55
- 293 of 346
I don't think Maestro would bother asking you if you were trying to insult him! He would just return the favour!
drrnrp - 21 Feb 2008 11:11 - 294 of 346
cynic answer the question
stroreysj - 21 Feb 2008 12:12 - 295 of 346
Give drrnrp the benefit of the doubt. We all enter PRTY hopeful and enthusiastic but day after day it slaps you down so I dont even bother looking at it now as its stays is a 1.5p trading range. Yawn yawn
cynic
- 21 Feb 2008 12:15
- 296 of 346
i have never held PRTY thank goodness
mashua - 21 Feb 2008 12:44 - 297 of 346
so why are you here?
drrnrp - 21 Feb 2008 12:59 - 298 of 346
well said
stroreysj - 05 Mar 2008 11:20 - 299 of 346
i hope no one needs their money in a hurry. Seriously pi**rd off with this one. Without doubt the worst share I have ever bought fortunately only have 25,000 left as off loaded the majority at evens 6 months ago.
cynic
- 05 Mar 2008 11:34
- 300 of 346
if maestro has linked money with mouth (doubtful!), then he will assuredly have lost his teeth!
hlyeo98 - 05 Mar 2008 11:45 - 301 of 346
Not up despite doing well...wonder why?
HARRYCAT
- 05 Mar 2008 11:50
- 302 of 346
'Cos of the following:
"At 10.50 am, the shares were trading at 25-1/4 pence, down 2-1/4, reflecting some disappointment at Garber's impending departure and current trading.
'With Mitch Garber declaring his intention to leave the group in 2009 and with trading only in-line with expectations, we think the shares may fall back a little over the coming days,' said Numis analyst Richard Carter.
Carter reiterated his 'buy' recommendation and 42 pence price target. However, he expects the shares to 'tread water' over the coming months until visibility with the DoJ increases or current trading picks up."
"At 10.50 am, the shares were trading at 25-1/4 pence, down 2-1/4, reflecting some disappointment at Garber's impending departure and current trading.
'With Mitch Garber declaring his intention to leave the group in 2009 and with trading only in-line with expectations, we think the shares may fall back a little over the coming days,' said Numis analyst Richard Carter.
Carter reiterated his 'buy' recommendation and 42 pence price target. However, he expects the shares to 'tread water' over the coming months until visibility with the DoJ increases or current trading picks up."
stroreysj - 05 Mar 2008 12:52 - 303 of 346
They also stated their growth rate was slowing which is deadly in these mkts
stroreysj - 17 Apr 2008 12:46 - 304 of 346
up nearly 20% in a week. 2 new brokers with buy recommendations, a bid aprroach for VC gaming. This share may finally start to fly and i can get my money back and get out. Fingers crossed
dealerdear - 17 Apr 2008 12:51 - 305 of 346
Likewise
maggiebt4
- 17 Apr 2008 14:07
- 306 of 346
They're about to do a 10 for 1 conversion - not so good. All I want is my money back too but not holding my breathe!
stroreysj - 17 Apr 2008 15:01 - 307 of 346
hadnt heard that but seems an unusual tactic. Might not be a bad thing if the price goes up as it will knock out the day traders who play with the share day in day out as 250p gets a bit pricy
dealerdear - 30 May 2008 11:22 - 308 of 346
Up 12%.
Takeover looming?
Takeover looming?
stroreysj - 01 Jun 2008 20:46 - 309 of 346
i doubt it. More like institutions are buying now it is no longer a penny share. As I pointed out above the consolidation has also knocked many of the day traders out who have been keeping the price down. Hopefully as it ticks up further many more will jump when getting their money back is too tempting and this share price can go north to reflect its revenue growth
HARRYCAT
- 07 Apr 2009 08:47
- 310 of 346
MoneyAM
"Online gambling firm PartyGaming today reported Q1 group revenue of $100.1m (2008: $128.9m).
Average daily revenue was up 2% versus the previous quarter due to growth in casino and sports betting.
PartyGaming also announced that a non-prosecution agreement has been concluded with the US Authorities. The company has agreed to pay $105m, payable in semi-annual instalments over a period ending on 30th September 2012. Such payments will be made from the Group's existing financial resources.
Q1 poker revenue was $53.6m (2008: $80.7m); average daily poker revenue down 1% versus the previous quarter due to foreign exchange movements and competitive pressures from US-facing sites.
Casino revenue was $40.9m (2008: $42.3m); average daily casino revenue up 5% versus the previous quarter due to growth in both bet volume and hold.
Sports Betting revenue was $4.5m (2008: $4.7m); average daily sports betting revenue up 19% versus the previous quarter due to growth in both bet volume and gross win margin.
Bingo revenue was $1m (2008: $1.2m); average daily bingo revenue down 27% versus the previous quarter primarily due to the conclusion of Bingo Night Live in Q4 2008.
Clean EBITDA margins remain in-line with full year 2008 performance. "
"Online gambling firm PartyGaming today reported Q1 group revenue of $100.1m (2008: $128.9m).
Average daily revenue was up 2% versus the previous quarter due to growth in casino and sports betting.
PartyGaming also announced that a non-prosecution agreement has been concluded with the US Authorities. The company has agreed to pay $105m, payable in semi-annual instalments over a period ending on 30th September 2012. Such payments will be made from the Group's existing financial resources.
Q1 poker revenue was $53.6m (2008: $80.7m); average daily poker revenue down 1% versus the previous quarter due to foreign exchange movements and competitive pressures from US-facing sites.
Casino revenue was $40.9m (2008: $42.3m); average daily casino revenue up 5% versus the previous quarter due to growth in both bet volume and hold.
Sports Betting revenue was $4.5m (2008: $4.7m); average daily sports betting revenue up 19% versus the previous quarter due to growth in both bet volume and gross win margin.
Bingo revenue was $1m (2008: $1.2m); average daily bingo revenue down 27% versus the previous quarter primarily due to the conclusion of Bingo Night Live in Q4 2008.
Clean EBITDA margins remain in-line with full year 2008 performance. "
HARRYCAT
- 07 Apr 2009 08:50
- 311 of 346
All gaming stocks (SBT, 888 etc) up between 10-15% today already on the news that the U.S. cloud hanging over the gaming sector is being conclusively sorted out.
Falcothou - 07 Apr 2009 09:53 - 312 of 346
They'll allow anything now if it brings in some tax,and the neo rights have gone
dealerdear - 07 Apr 2009 10:36 - 313 of 346
+ it now allows for consolidation in the sector hence the rise. SBT looks as though it could be on someone's radar.
HARRYCAT
- 23 Jul 2009 12:15
- 314 of 346
Business Financial Newswire
"PartyGaming has acquired online bingo operator Cashcade in a deal worth up to 95.9m.
Cashcade owns bingo websites including Foxy Bingo, Think Bingo and Bingo Scotland, as well as casino sites such as GetMinted and Foxy Flutter.
PartyGaming says the acquisition is expected to be earnings enhancing before amortisation of intangibles in 2009.
The cash deal is made up of an initial 71.9m and up to 24.0m based on future profit performance. Cashcade has been acquired on a debt-free, cash-free basis.
In the year to end December, Cashcade generated net revenue of 44.9m and EBITDA of 12.2m.
PartyGaming is financing the acquisition from its existing cash resources. "
"PartyGaming has acquired online bingo operator Cashcade in a deal worth up to 95.9m.
Cashcade owns bingo websites including Foxy Bingo, Think Bingo and Bingo Scotland, as well as casino sites such as GetMinted and Foxy Flutter.
PartyGaming says the acquisition is expected to be earnings enhancing before amortisation of intangibles in 2009.
The cash deal is made up of an initial 71.9m and up to 24.0m based on future profit performance. Cashcade has been acquired on a debt-free, cash-free basis.
In the year to end December, Cashcade generated net revenue of 44.9m and EBITDA of 12.2m.
PartyGaming is financing the acquisition from its existing cash resources. "
dealerdear - 20 Oct 2009 08:46 - 315 of 346
Can't quite see why it should open 10% down
There hasn't been a rights issue to my knowledge and doesn't pay a divi
There hasn't been a rights issue to my knowledge and doesn't pay a divi
stroreysj - 20 Oct 2009 10:58 - 316 of 346
got me stumped im sure someone will come up with a reason. Ive held it for 2 years through think and thin so whats the difference to holding on for another 2. I expect consolidation in the sector eventually
HARRYCAT
- 20 Oct 2009 11:03
- 317 of 346
LONDON, Oct 20 (Reuters) - "Indian billionaire Anurag Dikshit is to sell two thirds of his 28 percent stake in online gambling firm PartyGaming (PRTY.L), according to a statement released via Business Wire.
Dikshit, who is the company's second biggest shareholder and a co-founder of the company, will sell 75 million shares or about 18 percent of the company via an accelerated offering to institutional shareholders.
The shares are worth just over 213 million pounds ($350 million) based on Monday's closing share price of 284.5 pence.
Dikshit pleaded guilty last December to breaking the law against Internet betting in the United States and agreed to forfeit $300 million. PartyGaming itself has since settled a similar dispute with the U.S. Department of Justice.
He will continue to hold about 39 million shares or 9.5 percent of the company following the sale, remaining its second biggest shareholder."
Dikshit, who is the company's second biggest shareholder and a co-founder of the company, will sell 75 million shares or about 18 percent of the company via an accelerated offering to institutional shareholders.
The shares are worth just over 213 million pounds ($350 million) based on Monday's closing share price of 284.5 pence.
Dikshit pleaded guilty last December to breaking the law against Internet betting in the United States and agreed to forfeit $300 million. PartyGaming itself has since settled a similar dispute with the U.S. Department of Justice.
He will continue to hold about 39 million shares or 9.5 percent of the company following the sale, remaining its second biggest shareholder."
stroreysj - 20 Oct 2009 11:22 - 318 of 346
oh well its only a loss if you sell...hopefully they might take another hammering and buy in at a much lower price..the averaging down will let me get out a lot quicker on the way up. far more comfortbale doing so now they have settled the action in the US
HARRYCAT
- 20 Oct 2009 11:27
- 319 of 346
Goldman sachs doing the placing & rumour is that the book is almost closed now.
Immmediate price target 255p (Ironically set by G.S.) but would expect the sp to recover pretty quickly.
Immmediate price target 255p (Ironically set by G.S.) but would expect the sp to recover pretty quickly.
dealerdear - 21 Oct 2009 10:59 - 320 of 346
Thanks for that Harry.
dadro - 19 Jan 2010 14:09 - 321 of 346
'Open A Buy Bet In The PartyGaming Rolling Spread '
Fundamentala and Technical view on www.uk-analyst.com
Fundamentala and Technical view on www.uk-analyst.com
HARRYCAT
- 22 Jan 2010 09:29
- 322 of 346
Business Financial Newswire
"Online financial spread betting, foreign exchange and derivatives broking firm London Capital Group has signed a three-year contract with PartyGaming to provide a white label financial spread trading platform.
The trading platform is now live at www.intertrader.com "
"Online financial spread betting, foreign exchange and derivatives broking firm London Capital Group has signed a three-year contract with PartyGaming to provide a white label financial spread trading platform.
The trading platform is now live at www.intertrader.com "
HARRYCAT
- 22 Jan 2010 09:33
- 323 of 346
Business Financial Newswire 11.01.10
PartyGaming has signed a five-year agreement to provide a platform for poker and casino games for the Danish government-controlled Danske Spil betting group.
Denmark published draft legislation in 2009 for a partially liberalised gaming market, expected to become law in 2011. Poker and casino will be among the games subject to open competition.
PartyGaming CEO Jim Ryan said, 'This is a landmark B2B deal for PartyGaming and validates our strategy to become a leading provider of B2B services to both corporates and governments around the world.'
PartyGaming has signed a five-year agreement to provide a platform for poker and casino games for the Danish government-controlled Danske Spil betting group.
Denmark published draft legislation in 2009 for a partially liberalised gaming market, expected to become law in 2011. Poker and casino will be among the games subject to open competition.
PartyGaming CEO Jim Ryan said, 'This is a landmark B2B deal for PartyGaming and validates our strategy to become a leading provider of B2B services to both corporates and governments around the world.'
hlyeo98 - 01 Jul 2010 16:39 - 324 of 346
Wow... PRTY is already off support level... just waiting when to enter.
Clubman3509
- 01 Jul 2010 16:42
- 325 of 346
As much chance as Yell
cynic
- 01 Jul 2010 16:48
- 326 of 346
i have never understood the appeal of on-line gambling, though if you are a serious and good poker player, there's certainly a lot of pigeons to pluck ..... have never been remotely attracted by this sector .... what's smacked this one today? .... must be more than general malaise
hlyeo98 - 01 Jul 2010 17:00 - 327 of 346
Online gambling can be very questionable... you can be playing with a computer which always win!
HARRYCAT
- 29 Jul 2010 11:44
- 328 of 346
*PARTYGAMING, BWIN AGREE TO MERGE*
Clubman3509
- 29 Jul 2010 11:46
- 329 of 346
About as good as buying Yell
HARRYCAT
- 27 Oct 2010 14:47
- 330 of 346
StockMarketWire.com
Online gaming group PartyGaming said group revenue was up 9% to 85.3m in the quarter to end-September (2009: 78.3m), with growth in all products except poker.
Casino revenue was up 2% to 34.9m (2009: 34.2m), driven by content and jackpot improvements on PartyCasino.
Poker revenue was down 5% to 29.6m (2009: 31.3m) with continued pressure from US-facing sites partially mitigated by growth in newly regulated markets.
Bingo revenue was up 36% to 13.1m (2009: 9.6m) driven by the acquisition of Cashcade.
Sports Betting revenue rose 86% to 5.4m (2009: 2.9m) on the back of both increased turnover and gross win margins.
PartyGaming said current trading was improving on the back of seasonality, in-line with expectations .
The group said the Bwin merger was proceeding as planned, with Simon Duffy confirmed as Chairman-elect of the merged company.
Jim Ryan, CEO, said: "Total revenue was up by 9% year-on-year with growth in all products except poker, despite the impact of having closed our French casino business at the end of June 2010. Excluding French casino, total revenue would have been up by 12% year-on-year, driven by casino growth in other markets, acquisitions and a strong performance in sports betting.
"We have been encouraged by the strong start from our nascent French poker network that went live on 1st July 2010. A strong performance by PartyPoker in France has been further boosted by the launch of PMU's poker business in France as well as services for AB Groupe and Aviation Club de France.
"I am also pleased to report that the proposed merger with bwin remains on track to complete at the end of Q1 2011, subject to regulatory and shareholder approvals and I am delighted that Simon Duffy has agreed to become Chairman of the Enlarged Group on completion, as detailed in a separate press release issued today."
Online gaming group PartyGaming said group revenue was up 9% to 85.3m in the quarter to end-September (2009: 78.3m), with growth in all products except poker.
Casino revenue was up 2% to 34.9m (2009: 34.2m), driven by content and jackpot improvements on PartyCasino.
Poker revenue was down 5% to 29.6m (2009: 31.3m) with continued pressure from US-facing sites partially mitigated by growth in newly regulated markets.
Bingo revenue was up 36% to 13.1m (2009: 9.6m) driven by the acquisition of Cashcade.
Sports Betting revenue rose 86% to 5.4m (2009: 2.9m) on the back of both increased turnover and gross win margins.
PartyGaming said current trading was improving on the back of seasonality, in-line with expectations .
The group said the Bwin merger was proceeding as planned, with Simon Duffy confirmed as Chairman-elect of the merged company.
Jim Ryan, CEO, said: "Total revenue was up by 9% year-on-year with growth in all products except poker, despite the impact of having closed our French casino business at the end of June 2010. Excluding French casino, total revenue would have been up by 12% year-on-year, driven by casino growth in other markets, acquisitions and a strong performance in sports betting.
"We have been encouraged by the strong start from our nascent French poker network that went live on 1st July 2010. A strong performance by PartyPoker in France has been further boosted by the launch of PMU's poker business in France as well as services for AB Groupe and Aviation Club de France.
"I am also pleased to report that the proposed merger with bwin remains on track to complete at the end of Q1 2011, subject to regulatory and shareholder approvals and I am delighted that Simon Duffy has agreed to become Chairman of the Enlarged Group on completion, as detailed in a separate press release issued today."
goldfinger
- 01 Dec 2010 14:27
- 331 of 346
I like the look of prty (Partygaming) notice how its come off a double bottom at 210p and the macd line has crossed up through the trigger line with RSI at a reasonable level and volume getting heavier. SP also passed through resistance at 250p on its way to 280p first and beyond I reckon.
goldfinger
- 02 Dec 2010 13:43
- 332 of 346
Intraday we look like we are about to have hit support and start again on the ladder up.
Its very interesting to see what Buys brokers have recently pencilled in for this going forward.
PartyGaming PLC
FORECASTS 2010 2011
Date Rec Pre-tax () EPS (p) DPS (p) Pre-tax () EPS (p) DPS (p)
Panmure Gordon
01-12-10 BUY 92.30 19.00 103.00 21.30
Peel Hunt
30-11-10 BUY 71.98 15.24 81.85 16.95
Shore Capital
26-11-10 BUY 48.91 16.76 62.77 18.37
Evolution Securities Ltd
24-11-10 BUY 69.14 14.30 75.48 15.57
Numis Securities Ltd
17-11-10 BUY 82.94 18.65 94.13 20.51
Execution Noble
16-11-10 BUY 78.16 16.97 91.51 19.66
Collins Stewart
08-11-10 BUY 19.04 18.18
Daniel Stewart
28-06-10 BUY 73.24 19.09 88.95 21.30
2010 2011
Pre-tax () EPS (p) DPS (p) Pre-tax () EPS (p) DPS (p)
Consensus 68.02 16.19 66.79 15.89
1 Month Change -4.92 -0.79 -16.75 -2.53
3 Month Change -7.19 -0.77 -20.29 -2.73
GROWTH
2009 (A) 2010 (E) 2011 (E)
Norm. EPS -13.52% 39.47% -1.86%
DPS % % %
INVESTMENT RATIOS
2009 (A) 2010 (E) 2011 (E)
EBITDA 77.93m 88.13m 109.40m
EBIT 51.64m 59.55m 65.48m
Dividend Yield % % %
Dividend Cover x x x
PER 21.71x 15.56x 15.86x
PEG -1.60f 0.39f -8.50f
Net Asset Value PS -11.52p 42.68p 51.21p
Its very interesting to see what Buys brokers have recently pencilled in for this going forward.
PartyGaming PLC
FORECASTS 2010 2011
Date Rec Pre-tax () EPS (p) DPS (p) Pre-tax () EPS (p) DPS (p)
Panmure Gordon
01-12-10 BUY 92.30 19.00 103.00 21.30
Peel Hunt
30-11-10 BUY 71.98 15.24 81.85 16.95
Shore Capital
26-11-10 BUY 48.91 16.76 62.77 18.37
Evolution Securities Ltd
24-11-10 BUY 69.14 14.30 75.48 15.57
Numis Securities Ltd
17-11-10 BUY 82.94 18.65 94.13 20.51
Execution Noble
16-11-10 BUY 78.16 16.97 91.51 19.66
Collins Stewart
08-11-10 BUY 19.04 18.18
Daniel Stewart
28-06-10 BUY 73.24 19.09 88.95 21.30
2010 2011
Pre-tax () EPS (p) DPS (p) Pre-tax () EPS (p) DPS (p)
Consensus 68.02 16.19 66.79 15.89
1 Month Change -4.92 -0.79 -16.75 -2.53
3 Month Change -7.19 -0.77 -20.29 -2.73
GROWTH
2009 (A) 2010 (E) 2011 (E)
Norm. EPS -13.52% 39.47% -1.86%
DPS % % %
INVESTMENT RATIOS
2009 (A) 2010 (E) 2011 (E)
EBITDA 77.93m 88.13m 109.40m
EBIT 51.64m 59.55m 65.48m
Dividend Yield % % %
Dividend Cover x x x
PER 21.71x 15.56x 15.86x
PEG -1.60f 0.39f -8.50f
Net Asset Value PS -11.52p 42.68p 51.21p
goldfinger
- 07 Dec 2010 08:44
- 333 of 346
Good to put some SP targets to the broker buy recommendations:
Date Broker name New Price Old price target New price target Broker change
24-Nov-10 Evolution Securities Buy 238.50p - 303.00p New Coverage
12-Nov-10 Shore Capital Buy 213.10p - - Upgrade
12-Nov-10 Panmure Gordon Buy 213.10p - 302.00p Restart Coverage
Date Broker name New Price Old price target New price target Broker change
24-Nov-10 Evolution Securities Buy 238.50p - 303.00p New Coverage
12-Nov-10 Shore Capital Buy 213.10p - - Upgrade
12-Nov-10 Panmure Gordon Buy 213.10p - 302.00p Restart Coverage
goldfinger
- 10 Dec 2010 08:03
- 334 of 346
Broker upgrade.
PartyGaming FTSE 250 Consumer, Cyclical
Buy 320 241.6 32.5% Collins Stewart
320p SP target 32.5% increase.
PartyGaming FTSE 250 Consumer, Cyclical
Buy 320 241.6 32.5% Collins Stewart
320p SP target 32.5% increase.
cynic
- 17 Dec 2010 11:49
- 335 of 346
what a stinker!
sure hope you didn't marry money to mouth "sticky digit"
sure hope you didn't marry money to mouth "sticky digit"
goldfinger
- 18 Dec 2010 02:11
- 336 of 346
Yep agreed got out with a small gain cyners.
All about legislation in the US.
All about legislation in the US.
hlyeo98 - 31 Dec 2010 13:06 - 337 of 346
Party Gaming and Bwin will retain brand names after merger.
Party Gaming, which runs the reputed poker portal Party Poker, recently announced the final terms of its merger with Bwin, another gaming giant. The merger has been long anticipated by the poker industry who are waiting to see what inroad the newly merger enterprise will make. The merger is expected to be completed by the first quarter of the year 2011 and so far all those on board the two companies see nothing but opportunities for growth. This merger will create one of the worlds largest officially listed gaming businesses.
Norbert Teufelberger, the Co-CEO of Bwin appeared to be very optimistic about the merger and commented, The online gaming industry is going through a phase of consolidation, making market players size and geographic diversification more crucial than ever. Our products and target markets complement one another perfectly, and we can continue to expand our technology lead in all key product segments: sports betting, poker, casino, bingo, and games.
Both Bwin and Party Gaming have decided to keep their brand names, rather than opting for one of the two or going in for something totally new. The newly merged company will have a worldwide market and will be able to use the power of both its brands to push profits. The company will function under the brand name of bwin.party digital entertainment plc. In the merger the shares have not been evenly divided and it would appear that Bwin has the majority. Shareholders of Bwin will be happy to know that the shares have been split 51.7 percent (for Bwin) and 48.3 percent (for Party Gaming).
Jim Ryan, who is the current CEO of Party Gaming will team up with Teufelberger and head the newly merged enterprise. Ryan sees this as a great business opportunity for expansion. This is a transformational opportunity for both our companies to create the worlds largest listed online gaming business. With market-leading positions in poker, sports betting, casino, and games, the enlarged group will have a winning formula to exploit the growing online gaming market, supported by a strong balance sheet, significant cash flow generation, and a highly experienced management team, he said.
Despite retaining their brands, the management will be headed under one umbrella and the new company will function as one unit. The newly joined enterprise will operate out of Gibraltar and is now listed on the London Stock Exchange. However, since the company is so large, Bwin will still hold on to its offices in Austria.
Party Gaming, which runs the reputed poker portal Party Poker, recently announced the final terms of its merger with Bwin, another gaming giant. The merger has been long anticipated by the poker industry who are waiting to see what inroad the newly merger enterprise will make. The merger is expected to be completed by the first quarter of the year 2011 and so far all those on board the two companies see nothing but opportunities for growth. This merger will create one of the worlds largest officially listed gaming businesses.
Norbert Teufelberger, the Co-CEO of Bwin appeared to be very optimistic about the merger and commented, The online gaming industry is going through a phase of consolidation, making market players size and geographic diversification more crucial than ever. Our products and target markets complement one another perfectly, and we can continue to expand our technology lead in all key product segments: sports betting, poker, casino, bingo, and games.
Both Bwin and Party Gaming have decided to keep their brand names, rather than opting for one of the two or going in for something totally new. The newly merged company will have a worldwide market and will be able to use the power of both its brands to push profits. The company will function under the brand name of bwin.party digital entertainment plc. In the merger the shares have not been evenly divided and it would appear that Bwin has the majority. Shareholders of Bwin will be happy to know that the shares have been split 51.7 percent (for Bwin) and 48.3 percent (for Party Gaming).
Jim Ryan, who is the current CEO of Party Gaming will team up with Teufelberger and head the newly merged enterprise. Ryan sees this as a great business opportunity for expansion. This is a transformational opportunity for both our companies to create the worlds largest listed online gaming business. With market-leading positions in poker, sports betting, casino, and games, the enlarged group will have a winning formula to exploit the growing online gaming market, supported by a strong balance sheet, significant cash flow generation, and a highly experienced management team, he said.
Despite retaining their brands, the management will be headed under one umbrella and the new company will function as one unit. The newly joined enterprise will operate out of Gibraltar and is now listed on the London Stock Exchange. However, since the company is so large, Bwin will still hold on to its offices in Austria.
goldfinger
- 13 Jan 2011 14:32
- 338 of 346
At last after 3 weeks got my charting gear and problem sorted out. Right first up PRTY will we get a bounce on the chart from the recent weakness. Im hoping so and had a few earlier today, thats a fairly established resistance/support line so law of averages says after a while it will be broken.
hlyeo98 - 24 Jan 2011 14:57 - 339 of 346
You have jinxed PRTY, goldfinger.
cynic
- 24 Jan 2011 15:09
- 340 of 346
another serious stinker, and prob one to short, not that is shall
hlyeo98 - 24 Jan 2011 15:45 - 341 of 346
You are now a serious shorter, cynic.
cynic
- 24 Jan 2011 15:48
- 342 of 346
not short here unfortunately, but as i mentioned before, i have never liked this sector as have never understood why even a mutt-head would want to chance his arm against some serious professionals who frequent these places
hlyeo98 - 25 Jan 2011 09:07 - 343 of 346
190p now, any takers???
HARRYCAT
- 25 Jan 2011 09:13
- 344 of 346
goldfinger
- 25 Jan 2011 09:47
- 345 of 346
Yep looks that way hlyeo, its been on a rotten run lately.
goldfinger
- 26 Jan 2011 14:35
- 346 of 346
Top stock pick for 2011 From Daniel Stewart.......
PartyGaming (LON:PRTY) Target price 295 pence (current price 192 pence)
The online gaming group is valued at 295 pence a share, giving more than 50 percent upside from the current share price. Analyst Michael Campbell reckons may struggle in the poker arena, where the likes of Full Tilt and Poker Stars are piling on the competitive pressure.
However he reckons this will be more than offset by the performance of Partys bingo and casino offering.
Campbell adds: Partys merger with BWIN results in the largest online gambling business across a number of product verticals. Its the largest European Poker business across Europe and occupies top spot in casino, whilst sharing the spoils with Betfair in the sports betting vertical, though Betfair's model is distinctly different to the Party-BWIN model.
PartyGaming (LON:PRTY) Target price 295 pence (current price 192 pence)
The online gaming group is valued at 295 pence a share, giving more than 50 percent upside from the current share price. Analyst Michael Campbell reckons may struggle in the poker arena, where the likes of Full Tilt and Poker Stars are piling on the competitive pressure.
However he reckons this will be more than offset by the performance of Partys bingo and casino offering.
Campbell adds: Partys merger with BWIN results in the largest online gambling business across a number of product verticals. Its the largest European Poker business across Europe and occupies top spot in casino, whilst sharing the spoils with Betfair in the sports betting vertical, though Betfair's model is distinctly different to the Party-BWIN model.
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