Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

From post 10111--------

When you take your medicine in the morning don't make a mistake.

You are not allowed to change your mind and cough it back up, even if somebody else notices and bothers to tell you.

A world without the chance to review decisions. UMMMM.
**

At least we were given a choice, Major, Blair and Brown gave our sovereignty away without the people having a choice.

You don't lose your identity by joining a club.

Even as a superior member of the UK when you pass through its borders you are subjected to International Law.

If you don't like the rules negotiate and argue your case.

-=-=-

I think you have forgotten Heath and Maggie and Churchill who were in favour forms of European "Councils".

=-=-=-=

PS., I think Wilson was responsible for introducing the first referendum on Europe in Britain.

I can remember thinking that doing so was a good idea when I considered how they were used in Switzerland.

Thought they were possibly more representative of the opinions and wishes of a larger group of the people than those who turned out for normal elections.

Not so certain about them now.

I think the proposals and goals have to be defined clearly and may or may not be declared as advisory.


I think with a major decision like Brexit the "deal" should be put again to the people, especially when the last one was so ill-defined.

If it were put to the public and you got the same result or even a higher number of leavers - would remainers like you Fred be happy and accept the result?

UK's divorce from the EU is beginning to resemble a married couple divorcing..
1. Man (UK) wants a divorce
2. Wife (EU) says fine but only under following terms:
a. I want half the house
b. I want half of assets
c. I want half of money accumulated in pension fund
d. I want a generous annual maintenance settlement
e. You can have the cat but I am undecided as yet on the gold "fish"
f. You can forget about sleeping on the down stairs sofa let alone in "the old marital
bed"
Other than that it seems all pretty straight forward...

A box of matches would be preferable.

Stan,

I like that poster.

I believe :

Matthew Parker Street
London
SW1H 9HQ

also needs a little repair as the big boys are throwing their toys around.

See Musical Chairs has started again.

Musical Chairs - I doubt it, as she will have trouble getting anyone to sit down for longer than it takes to get to Belfast, let alone someone trying to sit on someones lap.

Those taking jobs may find they have the shortest tenure ever.

markets are closing remarkably sanguine after dropping quite sharply at one stage

perception is that TM will win any vote of no confidence, and also that the deal she got, while perhaps being something of a dog's dinner, is at least as good for the country as anyone else could have achieved ..... corbyn just blathers, blows around with the breeze and has had nothing constructive to propose that would remotely have been accepted by eu

From 10127
'is at least as good for the country as anyone else could have achieved'.

What keeping us in the customs union indefinitely.

it depends how much of a zealot of either side you are

hard brexit would be awful for business, that's for sure, so what would be your magic formula that would be potentially acceptable to eu and also carry the country?

The 1st Informed referendum...how many more times?

The so called red lines in TM's Mansion House speech with the possibility of a slight softening in certain areas, but absolutely not the customs union.

I'll just add that I regard myself as a moderate Leaver, if you look back at my posts I have never said it would be easy for those who had to negotiate on our behalf or indeed without problems for the people.

The whole point of Brexit for me was to take control of our own trade with the rest of the world including the EU. I also believe that we cannot trade with the EU on the same terms as those countries within the EU.

Also to be able to control our borders and be subject to the Laws of the Land, our land.

"The whole point of Brexit for me was to take control of our own trade with the rest of the world including the EU. I also believe that we cannot trade with the EU on the same terms as those countries within the EU."

Which means that the UK will have to pay a tax on the deals to support the organisation and administration necessary for the running of the remaining Union.

Nothing is for nothing.

A good deal? You must be joking, and now they want more.



EU to seek more Brexit concessions on fishing and tax to stop UK gaining any competitive advantage


By James Crisp, Brussels Correspondent
16 November 2018 • 4:27pm



European Union governments will try to railroad Britain into a permanent customs union and extract more UK concessions in fishing, heaping yet more pressure on an embattled Theresa May.

The EU-27 is looking to hard-wire British commitments on fishing, tax, the environment, social standards, security, transport and foreign policy into the negotiating boundaries of the future UK-EU trade agreement.

EU-27 governments are seeking “dynamic alignment” on those standards to ensure they keep up with Brussels over time, ensuring the UK is shackled to its red tape and preventing it from being more competitive than the bloc.


More: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/16/eu-seek-brexit-concessions-fishing-tax-stop-uk-gaining-competitive/

Just spoke to a couple of guys in my local , Fred laughed before the referendum when I said the same and couldn't understand why remain was nailed on to win and all those I spoke to were voting leave including the youngsters except one. Better than any poll Fred , get dressed and get out and speak to real people.

First guy confirmed what I already knew which is Mazzarati are now placing big orders in the UK due to exchange rates , long term , and big money is being spent on new machinery to meet these orders.

Second guy , came in half hour late due to the company he works for just sealing a big deal with a just in time manufacturer and having to agree new staffing levels for when the orders kick in.

They are doing this regardless of us getting a deal or no deal so my best guess is that no one outside the UK really gives a shite about Brexit so let's just leave and get on with things.

The just in time argument is just as imaginary as the Irish border problem unless your a remoaner.

JIT is nothing like they portray on the news anyway.

Amber Rudd ... geez getting desperate , needs friends.

My gut feel is TM will get this deal to parliament. How it goes from there hmmm