Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Are you suggesting that Dil, Doc and iturama are pygmies, cyners?

:o)

people of whatever stature are entitled to their views :-)

https://www.jerseywartunnels.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpOPc65jg3gIVkOd3Ch2KsAtiEAAYASAAEgK8kPD_BwE

i've been there ....

you also don't need to go back too far to reveal the appalling conditions in the POW (concentration) camps of the american civil war, and subsequently those imposed by the british during the boer war

Manuel,

post 10153.

Manuel.

Theresa is the leader of the tory party and its followers ie. a party of overfed Pygmies.

Similar was said of Chamberlain in the 30s.

-=-=--=

Cameron and Osborne just exposed the self-interested splits and ambitions out those who have past their sell by dates.

-=-===

Political chaos similar to the 30s in Germany, but this time trying to identifying "immigrants" as a diversion from UK's present "problems", similar in pattern to "targetting" the "Jews" as excuses for making political and legal changes as well as "executive" controls.

-=-=-=-
Modified to help!

i merely posted for general interest and without comment

if you regard corbyn as a figure of towering and inspirational leadership, then that is up to you - and of any who might share your views

==========

btw, i don't think you meant your last sentence to read as it did, for of course it was not the jews who caused the problems in 30s germany, though mr shickelgruber found them an easily identified target to blame

Agreed.

Modified.

Damn.

May trying to use the migrants ticket to save her job and get support for her bonkers plan is nothing but a diasgrace.

It is not about migrants - it is about having the freedom to make your own trade deals - control your own waters - control your boarders and yes if need be have one between Ireland & N.I. if that is what it takes but let the Ireland provide it if they really want too.

I agree with 'it's not about migrants'.

For me:

1. It is/was about having some sort of control over numbers of migrants and not, as a sovereign island democratic country, being subjected by the EU to having to admit absolutely unlimited numbers of immigrants from the EU, thereby potentially totally overloading, say our schools and NHS.

2. The EU is not democratic. (Nigel Farage always makes/made an excellent explanation of the truth of this. Check him out on YouTube). I want to live in a democracy and be able to vote/chuck out my political leaders if they aren't doing what I think they should be doing. There seemed to be no democratic way our UK political leaders could influence Brussels. Malta has exactly the same powers of EU persuasion as we do and there are less than 1m people on the island of Malta.

"I agree with 'it's not about migrants'".

*Instantly talks about migrants*

Now the Spanish want a special deal for Gibraltar, and with TM leading the country by default, they will more than likely get what they want unless we leave with NO DEAL - next TM will give up all rights to the Falkland Islands.

CT

"....with NO DEAL...."?

Do you mean with a "Clean Break"?

:-)

Clean Break call it what you will - close the Tunnel for Commercial traffic for a start now - to give them a sample of what the True Brits want and let them know that the UK will not be paying them any Blackmail money.

Charter the ships ready and waiting:

Book the Cargo Aircraft:

Brake the Berlin style wall.

Ready the Navy to chase off those fishing in UK waters.

Do whatever needs to be done - short term pain = long term gain.

A complete break is looking more attractive every day.

When's the vote being held in Parliament ?

There’s something everyone has missed about Theresa May and the Brexit vote
Even if the United Kingdom escapes the cliff-edge this time, there are other difficult votes ahead.

BY
STEPHEN BUSH (New Statesman)

There are a lot of things being neglected in discussion of our looming vote on the Brexit deal, but one of the most important is that it isn’t really a “vote on the Brexit deal” at all. It’s the vote on the terms of the United Kingdom’s exit and the outstanding legacy issues arising from that: the rights of the British diaspora in the European Union, the rights of the three million EU citizens living in the United Kingdom, the United Kingdom’s outstanding financial promises to the EU, and what the end of a shared regulatory and customs framework for Ireland and the United Kingdom means for the border on the island of Ireland.

It’s not a vote about what the final EU-UK relationship will look like. There is a vague political declaration about that relationship being voted on the same time, but this is a lot like shaking hands and agreeing to keep things cordial after a divorce has been declared final: just because it takes place at the same time as a legally binding accord doesn’t make it a legally binding accord.

That matters for two reasons. The first is that Theresa May, or whoever is Prime Minister, can fairly easily add some more waffle into the political declaration if it makes it easier to pass, as the political declaration doesn’t mean anything.

But the second is that even if the United Kingdom avoids falling off the cliff and leaving the European Union without a deal in spring of next year – itself a pretty big “if” – then Parliament will face at least one more, potentially two more, knife-edge votes which could lead to the United Kingdom leaving the EU without a negotiated exit.

Despite May’s repeated use of the phrase “implementation period”, what the British government has sought and received from the European Union is no such thing: it is a period of transition during which the final EU-UK trade deal will be negotiated. It is due to expire in December 2020 but almost everyone accepts – despite May’s statements, repeated today at the CBI, that it will have ended by the time of the next election in June 2022 – that it will take longer. The average length of time for a trade deal to be completed is two years, and an EU-UK trade deal is an unprecedented endeavour as no trade deal in history has been designed to make two countries further apart rather than closer together. Adding to that, the government has no majority which severely complicates its ability to reach agreement on anything.

As a result, it is all but inevitable that the British government will have to extend the transition period (something it will have to do by the end of June 2020). It is not clear whether or not the government would have to seek parliamentary approval to do so though the additional financial expenditure would have to pass parliament. In a way, that’s besides the point, because although the politics of this are very painful for the Conservative Party, they are very easy for Labour, who have already called for a longer transition, so they could and would vote to extend the transition, cancelling out any Tory rebels, and aggravating the Conservatives’ internal divisions.

The difficulty will come if a final deal is agreed before the end of this parliament or if the next election produces a parliament that looks a lot like this one. Why? Because any trade deal will provoke the same divisions within the Conservative Party that we see at work now; but unlike a transition extension, voting it through won’t be painless for Labour, either. In fact it is much harder to see how Labour can find a politically safe way to vote for the final deal than it is to work out ways they could navigate this looming vote.

All of which means, unless there is an election between now and 2020, while the United Kingdom might escape the cliff edge in March 2019, its chances of avoiding one in June 2020 or thereafter are only going to rise.

Nicked from across the road, h/t to cheshire pete



I am Duncan Smith
‏
I’ve sold a car to Theresa May priced at £6000 but she said the deal was shit but after negotiaton I accepted £7000 and retained ownership of the car & agreed she wouldn't drive it without my permission,

it was only months ago she said she’d rather walk than buy a car from me !

Even Mark Carney is back at it warning about all the risks as he sees them, as he did when he was trying to do Britian down and support the Remainers with all his doom and gloom, along with the former President of the USA - look how quickly the Pound recovered and business boomed, making him look as daft as brush.

He needs to go as well as TM.

the following is worth reading, if only to get confirmation of labour's strong stance and what it would do about the brexit negotiations were it in power .....

Labour's Shami Chakrabarti Left Stunned After Bruising Interview With Andrew Marr

Labour’s Shadow Attorney General was left almost dumbstruck after a heated interview Andrew Marr on Sunday morning.

Shami Chakrabarti was being grilled by the BBC presenter over Labour’s stance on Brexit after a tumultuous week for Theresa May and the Conservatives.

Marr pushed on the point that Labour’s manifesto states it respects the result of the Brexit referendum rather than primarily pushing for a second vote.

Chakrabarti held her ground, insisting as a democrat her stance was a reflection of the original referendum.


MARR: “I don’t understand why you want to leave the EU.”

Chakrabarti: “I don’t want to leave the EU, I campaigned to Remain. I’m a democrat.”

MARR: “But you’re going to go through a General Election campaign as a member of a party whose manifesto says ‘we are leaving the EU’.”

Chakrabarti: “I’m a democrat, I don’t know about you Andrew, but I’m a democrat.”

MARR: “Don’t try and patronise me, I’m as much a democrat as you are.”

Chakrabarti: “I certainly wouldn’t try to patronise you and I’m sure you would never try to patronise me.”

Chakrabarti insisted the draft Brexit deal presented to the Commons this week by the PM could be renegotiated but struggled to say what Labour would do differently.

Shadow said it was “the worst kind of bureaucratic fudge that doesn’t deliver for anyone” and had been “designed to look as if it can please everybody and it can’t” .

She said if Labour was in charge, a “completely different atmosphere” would allow for progress to be made, particularly on workers’ rights and environmental protections.

Earlier on Sunday morning, Jeremy Corbyn poured cold water over calls for Labour to back a second referendum on the UK’s membership of the EU, saying it is “an option for the future” but “not an option for today”.

He also revealed that if there was another referendum he does not know how he would vote.

Labour has said it will vote down May’s deal and then push for a general election. If they fail to secure one “all options remain on the table”, including a second referendum.

Does anybody think the market is trying to send to Theresa and her Brexiteers, or Bandits a message?

Yes Fred - The market is saying - please have a clean break from the EU so we can slash prices, cause panic, then in a few days - ramp up the stock prices having made a bundle in between, as we all know Britian will come up smelling of Roses in time for Christmas. :-)