Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

on the other hand, you may not
it also has clearly not sunk in to that gap between your ears that "no deal" is most assuredly not synonymous with "clean break"

you may even surprise yourself to discover that the tories (and thus TM) are far more favoured to handle the brexit negotiations than labour (and thus corbyn)

you may find yourself surprised to discover that the majority of people in this country would rather accept the deal on the table, flawed as it may be, than to have no deal

you may also surprise yourself to find that the majority of people in this country really do not want another referendum, whatever its outcome might be

For me, this was always going to be the outcome. Keep the process going as long as feasibly possible. Then come up with the "Take it or leave it deal". Then add armeggedon as a back stop if its not accepted.

As someone who voted to leave. I would rather have been on the losing side than surrender to this pile of sh!t.

CD - did you also delude yourself that "clean break" was even feasible, and without pain?

Manuel,

I would have thought you and It. would think Boris would make an iconic leader for the New Tory party representing its present morality perfectly.

But with your obvious omniscience would consider arguing with you about the Party's future.

(Especially, with your dithering over it at the beginning of this thread.)

But some are prepared to wait for the scrawny lady to sing.

Again, it seems to me that you and the Brexiters will be happy to wait at table and live on scraps with the hope for tips once again.

What disastrous period in tory party history.

Winny must be turning in his grave.

:)

''What disastrous period in tory party history''.

JOBS
Over the past five years, 2.3 million new jobs have been created in the private sector — most of them full-time and in higher skilled occupations.

This is more than four times the 500,000 jobs lost in the public sector.

Three out of five of the new jobs created since 2010 are outside London and the South-East.

Between 2010 and 2013, more jobs were created in Yorkshire than in the whole of France.

ECONOMY
Last year, Britain’s economy grew faster than every other major developed country in the world.

In 2014, GDP (Gross Domestic Product) grew by 2.8 per cent — revised up from 2.6 per cent and the fastest annual rate of growth since 2006.

The deficit has been halved from 10.2 per cent of GDP in 2009-10 to 4.8 per cent in 2014-15. The national debt is falling as a share of GDP.

amazing how consistently wrong you are fred:-)

the only thing you are correct about is that i prevaricated about which way to vote until the very last minute
if i had to vote again, i'm pretty sure i would vote once more to exit

btw, i suspect winny would not have joined eu in the first place, but unimportant

george - from where did you glean your numbers? ....... not doubting, but curious

Cynic - From James Slack for the Daily Mail published in 2015 so figures relate to that period.

As do these:-


Living standards are officially higher than when the Coalition took office.

The independent Office for Budget Responsibility predicts families will be £900 better off by the end of 2015 compared to 2010.

In THE three months to February, wages increased by 1.8 per cent. By contrast, inflation is zero - giving families more spending power.

The incomes of pensioners have risen in real terms by 10 per cent under the Coalition due to the Government’s ‘triple lock’, which ensures the state pension goes up by whichever is higher: inflation, wages or 2.5%

And these which relate to The Labour Party;-

JOBS
Labour increased unemployment by 500,000 from two million before the 1997 general election to 2.5 million by 2010.

Almost one million 16-to-24-year-olds in England were classed as not in education, employment or training by the time the party left office.

Of the increase in employment levels under Labour, 72 per cent was accounted for by foreign workers. Migrant workers were imported while Britons were allowed to languish on welfare.

bit old news, but still, and i'm afraid the mail is not renowned for its impartiality any more than is the telegraph or the mirror!

And:-

WELFARE
Overall, spending on benefits doubled under Labour from £93.3 billion in 1997/98 to £192.6 billion in 2010/11. Taking into account inflation, this was still a 54 per cent increase.

While some families were able to claim £100,000 a year in housing benefit, pensioners were given rises as low as 75 pence per week, provoking an outcry in 2000.

A Government report in 2009 said that two million pensioners had been left below the poverty line.

i'm sure fred will be able to come up with counter-figures :-)

as they say, there's lies, damned lies and politicians (and fred!)

Old news it is, but factual, not like Fred's comments which he throws around to suit.

What party were in power when this was published?
A Government report in 2009 said that two million pensioners had been left below the poverty line.

ah, that dreaded word "facts" .... like truth, it often depends in whose eyes or who has written it

question - was firebombing dresden justified?

2.5,

Do you believe in fairy tales as well?

How many jobs are you holding down and how many of the general population are in increasing poverty.

(Now many on minimum hour contracts?)

How many companies are paying wages which have to be subsidised by the state for the employees to have enough to live on?

Actually, the state is subsidising the owners of those businesses.

Go outside your bunker and count the number of homeless living out on the streets.

Some due to the inability to look after themselves and neglected by the form of state management which you appear laud and to accept.

But for god.s sake don't slip on the ice this Xmas as you will be in casualty until the Xmas after.

The tories couldn't run a p. in a b..

Go and have a cold bath.

8-)

What a pile of shite May has negotiated. Even found myself agreeing with Corby today when he described the political statement as a pile of waffle. It's more like a Versarien RNS than anything worth shouting about.

Regarding facts cynic , is it a fact that more people would prefer this deal than no deal , asked everyone have you ?

And you really need to sort your attitude problem out and accept other people have different views to yours.

WELFARE
Overall, spending on benefits doubled under Labour from £93.3 billion in 1997/98 to £192.6 billion in 2010/11. Taking into account inflation, this was still a 54 per cent increase.

While some families were able to claim £100,000 a year in housing benefit, pensioners were given rises as low as 75 pence per week, provoking an outcry in 2000. A Government report in 2009 said that two million pensioners had been left below the poverty line.