Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

ah, that dreaded word "facts" .... like truth, it often depends in whose eyes or who has written it

question - was firebombing dresden justified?

2.5,

Do you believe in fairy tales as well?

How many jobs are you holding down and how many of the general population are in increasing poverty.

(Now many on minimum hour contracts?)

How many companies are paying wages which have to be subsidised by the state for the employees to have enough to live on?

Actually, the state is subsidising the owners of those businesses.

Go outside your bunker and count the number of homeless living out on the streets.

Some due to the inability to look after themselves and neglected by the form of state management which you appear laud and to accept.

But for god.s sake don't slip on the ice this Xmas as you will be in casualty until the Xmas after.

The tories couldn't run a p. in a b..

Go and have a cold bath.

8-)

What a pile of shite May has negotiated. Even found myself agreeing with Corby today when he described the political statement as a pile of waffle. It's more like a Versarien RNS than anything worth shouting about.

Regarding facts cynic , is it a fact that more people would prefer this deal than no deal , asked everyone have you ?

And you really need to sort your attitude problem out and accept other people have different views to yours.

WELFARE
Overall, spending on benefits doubled under Labour from £93.3 billion in 1997/98 to £192.6 billion in 2010/11. Taking into account inflation, this was still a 54 per cent increase.

While some families were able to claim £100,000 a year in housing benefit, pensioners were given rises as low as 75 pence per week, provoking an outcry in 2000. A Government report in 2009 said that two million pensioners had been left below the poverty line.

More Labour disasters

IMMIGRATION
Ministers disastrously predicted only 13,000 arrivals from Eastern Europe when they threw open the UK’s borders in 2004. More than one million came.

A policy of mass immigration saw the foreign-born population rise by 3.6 million — equivalent to the combined population of Leeds, Birmingham, Glasgow, Sheffield and Bradford.

Chaos in the Home Office led to 220,000 failed and delayed asylum seekers and migrants being given an amnesty to stay, and 1,000 foreign criminals being freed without being considered for deportation.

You're very good at throwing back questions in response to fact based reports, why don't you do some research to back them up?

But let's leave with some good news, from The Conservative Government.

The UK’s employment rate has hit another record high, rising to 74.1%. There are now a record 31.4 million people in work – up 521,000 compared with this time last year, fuelled by a rise in full-time employment – and there are a record 776,000 job vacancies, reflecting the economy’s strong performance.
UK employment reaches record high - GOV.UK
www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-employment-reaches-record-high

It’s from the DM...so it must be true 🙄

Let them eat bread - Please Vote Labour and stop the debacle.

Lets hold hands with the Devil. :-)

Voting labour and stopping a debacle is a contradiction in terms. Labour only exists if there is poverty. That is why it is in its interest to invent it or cause it by mass migration to overwhelm the country's resources. Unfortunately for it, as the figures show, the majority of newcomers, particularly from Eastern Europe, do work hard, better themselves and see Labour politicians as the the type of apparatchiks that caused the misery in their own countries.

iturama, There is widespread poverty in the UK. That is the problem that so many fail to accept or in the vast majority of cases fail to even understand.

I know so many people earning in excess of £150k pa that do not have a clue what it is like to live on £25k let alone a basic Mim Wage as a single person and worse still as a married couple with even One Child.

Accept that, and you will understand why Fred & co support Labour, and oddly enough every time Labour has been in Power - I among many others make more money than when the Tories are the rulers of our land.

Tories got us into this mess with Heath - it seems they are still digging a even deeper and bigger hole to swallow the masses imo.

There is relative poverty. Those of us that were brought up in the rationing years after WW2, WW1 in Fred's case, had far less.
There is a much greater safety net in this country than there is in many countries, including the USA. It is common there for people on low incomes to have two or three jobs. Far too many in this country abuse the system or want to live above their means. Am I my brother's keeper? Given the very high level of taxation in this country, it appears I am. At what point does the well run dry?

It,

"Am I my brother's keeper?"

It seems obvious to me in your case, you are not!

Greed seems to get in the way.

But there is a price paid when a society neglects its lesser mortals.

Funny how some of those 'in poverty' usually smoke and can also afford booze and tattoos, have unprotected sex and often get either pregnant, an STD or even both.

Some of the 'homeless' can also even afford to take on looking after a dog too. Notwithstanding it is going to need monies spent on it to take care of chipping, annual injections and other veterinary treatments.

Funny how there is an anonymity to homelessness, that allows some people to more easily escape their responsibilities.

Have I also mentioned the addictions of compulsive gambling or strong narcotics? No? Ah well.

on a more chirpy note .......

there was a very touching item on tv this morning about attlee taking in one of the kindertransport children

apparently he was a really lovely and gentle man

Morning all , anything happened today or is everything still as clear as mud ?

Nothing Dil.
There was no wrecks and nobody drowned.
Fact nothing to laugh at all.

10255 Just like Fred. I wonder how many he has taken in.
Fred, my greatest pride was finding, financing and building a mine in an isolated poverty stricken area of Brazil that now employs over 750 people, with about an additional same amount employed during construction. Many hundreds are now employed in service jobs because of the wealth brought to the area. We built roads, bridges, power lines, a school, clinic, social amenities and refurbished the church.
To see young people going to work, instead of sitting on a doorstep, or toiling for a pittance in a garimpo, was worth all the long hours I spent on site. I was six months a year away from my family. Work, rather than benefits, makes the person. What have you ever done except bum around?

IT - as i trust you now speak fluent portuguese, perhaps you could apply for a dual passport :-)

Oh well M I live in hope.

I see the Spanish are sounding off about Gibraltar again. Doesn't bode well for future trade deal which any of the 27 can veto.

Just out of interest does anyone know if there's a breakdown anywhere of what exactly we are paying 39 billion for ?

I'm sure most people thought that when it was agreed that it was tied to a satisfactory trade deal and not just for the privilege of leaving the EU.

We could have left with no deal 6 months after the vote and would have been in a better position today than we currently find ourselves in.

DIL - you may be right, but i recommend you read up what "no deal" actually implies and involves ...... i think it may surprise you
https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/no-deal-brexit-what-meaning-uk-leave-uk-consequences/