Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

iturama, There is widespread poverty in the UK. That is the problem that so many fail to accept or in the vast majority of cases fail to even understand.

I know so many people earning in excess of £150k pa that do not have a clue what it is like to live on £25k let alone a basic Mim Wage as a single person and worse still as a married couple with even One Child.

Accept that, and you will understand why Fred & co support Labour, and oddly enough every time Labour has been in Power - I among many others make more money than when the Tories are the rulers of our land.

Tories got us into this mess with Heath - it seems they are still digging a even deeper and bigger hole to swallow the masses imo.

There is relative poverty. Those of us that were brought up in the rationing years after WW2, WW1 in Fred's case, had far less.
There is a much greater safety net in this country than there is in many countries, including the USA. It is common there for people on low incomes to have two or three jobs. Far too many in this country abuse the system or want to live above their means. Am I my brother's keeper? Given the very high level of taxation in this country, it appears I am. At what point does the well run dry?

It,

"Am I my brother's keeper?"

It seems obvious to me in your case, you are not!

Greed seems to get in the way.

But there is a price paid when a society neglects its lesser mortals.

Funny how some of those 'in poverty' usually smoke and can also afford booze and tattoos, have unprotected sex and often get either pregnant, an STD or even both.

Some of the 'homeless' can also even afford to take on looking after a dog too. Notwithstanding it is going to need monies spent on it to take care of chipping, annual injections and other veterinary treatments.

Funny how there is an anonymity to homelessness, that allows some people to more easily escape their responsibilities.

Have I also mentioned the addictions of compulsive gambling or strong narcotics? No? Ah well.

on a more chirpy note .......

there was a very touching item on tv this morning about attlee taking in one of the kindertransport children

apparently he was a really lovely and gentle man

Morning all , anything happened today or is everything still as clear as mud ?

Nothing Dil.
There was no wrecks and nobody drowned.
Fact nothing to laugh at all.

10255 Just like Fred. I wonder how many he has taken in.
Fred, my greatest pride was finding, financing and building a mine in an isolated poverty stricken area of Brazil that now employs over 750 people, with about an additional same amount employed during construction. Many hundreds are now employed in service jobs because of the wealth brought to the area. We built roads, bridges, power lines, a school, clinic, social amenities and refurbished the church.
To see young people going to work, instead of sitting on a doorstep, or toiling for a pittance in a garimpo, was worth all the long hours I spent on site. I was six months a year away from my family. Work, rather than benefits, makes the person. What have you ever done except bum around?

IT - as i trust you now speak fluent portuguese, perhaps you could apply for a dual passport :-)

Oh well M I live in hope.

I see the Spanish are sounding off about Gibraltar again. Doesn't bode well for future trade deal which any of the 27 can veto.

Just out of interest does anyone know if there's a breakdown anywhere of what exactly we are paying 39 billion for ?

I'm sure most people thought that when it was agreed that it was tied to a satisfactory trade deal and not just for the privilege of leaving the EU.

We could have left with no deal 6 months after the vote and would have been in a better position today than we currently find ourselves in.

DIL - you may be right, but i recommend you read up what "no deal" actually implies and involves ...... i think it may surprise you
https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/no-deal-brexit-what-meaning-uk-leave-uk-consequences/

Cynic , what no deal means or implies will be as different as chalk and cheese depending on who you listen too.

A bit like Cammy and Osbourne's view of what a no vote would mean compared to say JRM and Boris.

It really won't mean no food , no medicine no flights etc although I'm not saying there won't be some short term problems but imo they will mostly be administrative.

Plus if we give 3 months notice of our intention then I'm sure plenty of compromise mini deals could be done if both parties wanted.

It mentions that foreign business would move to the EU to alleviate shortages of components, I've read that EU companies would move to the UK to continue selling their wares here.

Dil is right, any view given has to be assessed on whether the person is a Brexiteer or a Remainer.

dil - read the link i posted!

– Between 2010 – 2015 the United Kingdom created more jobs than the whole of the European Union.
– In 2014 Birmingham alone created more jobs than all of France.

Theresa May read geography and obtained a second class BA degree -now its clear that the UK has a second class PM that would do well to read history. As Home Secretary TM praised the actions of the police in controlling demonstartations about education fees - well before long she may wish she had Boris`s Water Cannons as there could be riots before the fat lady sings.

Hey Tory boys and girls the lovely Teresa is on R5 live now, give her a call and tell her how you feel about "you know what"... come on now you all have plenty to say on this thread.

I thought she was going into exile.

Stan the BBC will not take any serious questions from the Tory Leavers.