Good morning all>

Chakliyour post 1021 is not very niceI simply noticed Dil had Mis-spelled your name to a tasty Indian dish and I had a GiraffeBTWI have eaten at the BelfryI would imagine that to be fairly close to the balti triangle in Birminghamother than that I cant help you
I will ask you to post your opinion on the merits of lloy being a strong buythe Master has declared this all the way up to 1-11...I will leave you to work out the hit taken on todays priceI value your opinion equal to his and others on these threadsbut take note of only a fewhis timings are questionable to say the leastand as said by another poster the percentage rises on many tips wouldn't even cover the spreadand with no game plan publishedhe can manipulate to suit
Unfortunately he believes himself to be Mr. B from Omahawhen in fact he is nearer Mr. Beanthose that are following blindly are helping him not themselves imo

        MORNING TEA


It applies on many of YOU, today's Friday morning humour

re- marni
re - do you think dealer and master are siamese twins?

Maybe the fathers know each other from the twilight zone

But I know a COW when I see one

The Goverment has said many times, they have no interest on taking over full control of the banks, and yet those financial journalist that have nothing to do but spread rumours and innuendos like there is no tomorrow, I suspect nothing to do like some on this thread...........

Lloyds and RBS still face nationalisation risk says Neil Woodford
By Daniel Grote | 07:32:30 | 09 October 2009

The threat of full nationalisation for RBS and Lloyds is not yet over, according to Neil Woodford, who has warned that the UK banking sector is still broken.

Woodford believes there is a 25 to 30 per cent chance the two banks could be brought under full state control in a bid to speed up their repair.

The difference between full nationalisation and where we are now is not that great. Its actually a decision about politics rather than economics, he said.

Nationalisation could provide a quicker recovery in certain circumstances. It may well be that ultimately politicians decide the political cost of not nationalising the banks is too high.

At what stage does the economy say, well hang on a minute, weve put all this money in and yet were still not getting any lending. Wheres the upside for the taxpayer?

Maybe a quicker resolution is full nationalisation, explicit good bank and bad bank, and then you at least have the possibility of being able to sell back to the market a cleaned up bank which is then able to lend to an economy that clearly is in need of credit. What is then retained on the nations balance sheet is the bad bank that is pretty much there anyway.

Woodford's, whose avoidance of banks helped insulate his investors from the worst of the credit crunch last year but has seen them miss much of the rally in 2009, argued that the UK was still in the midst of one hell of a banking crisis.

He pointed to the banking sector's need for gigantic amounts of further capital in order to resume lending.

Its only when you understand the scale of their balance sheets and the nature therefore of what losses might be embedded on those balance sheets that you can then quantify what I believe is their requirement for further capital, he said.

The reason that banks arent lending is of course because they are capital constrained. They know that they have large embedded losses actual losses and potential losses the majority of which they cannot afford to recognise.

This means that banks are failing to foreclose on businesses because they do not have the capital to sustain the losses they would be forced to recognize, and there is not a secondary market for the assets they would have to take on.

There is a widespread attempt to sustain businesses that in any other environment would be allowed to close, he said.

Its like what happened in Japan for so many years the culture of zombieism.

Speaking before reports that Lloyds was considering a 15 billion rights issue, which would be the largest ever seen in the UK, he said that banks would not be able to rely on the markets to raise the amounts needed to repair their balance sheets.

They may raise some money from the market but they wont be able to raise enough to make good their balance sheets, he said.

He said the UK was half way through the process of bank recapitalisation. After repairing balance sheets and building up capital to deal with the losses already embedded on balance sheets, banks would need further capital to deal with the tighter regulation that will emerge.

MasterI have been known to suckbut purely in a heterosexual kinda way

do not bite at it then?

You suppose to know the meaning not double meaning that you are trying to give

this is for you then...

I HATE POSERS !!!: They Suck !!!

Ah I see everybody has been very busy here whilst I took a break!

Christ, tobacco, lil and mates you're aren't half easy to wind up.

Just push your buttons and off you go.

Chill out lil all this stress ain't good for you mate.

The PPI highly positive for the economy to recover ...........


September PPI highest since April

LONDON (Reuters) - Factory gate inflation unexpectedly turned positive for the first time in five months, with almost all sectors contributing to the rise, official data showed on Friday.

The Office for National Statistics said non seasonally adjusted output prices rose 0.5 percent on the month in September, taking the annual rate of inflation to 0.4 percent.

That was both the highest reading since April and followed a -0.3 percent rate in August.

Analysts had predicted factory gate inflation would stay negative at a rate of 0.1 percent and said price pressures could start rising again soon.

"You could see inflation start to pick up again in the early part of next year," said George Buckley, chief UK economist at Deutsche Bank.

While most sectors had a positive impact on output prices over the month, the ONS said the biggest effect came from petroleum product prices, which were driven up by a rise in duty at the start of September.

Annual input price inflation was also the least negative since April, falling by 0.5 percent on the month and by 6.5 percent on the year.

Separately, the ONS said Britain's trade gap with the rest of the world narrowed slightly to 6.240 billion pounds in August from 6.431 billion pounds in July. That was the smallest trade gap since June 2006, but was not significantly lower than the deficits in recent months.

If I was anymore laid back deardealer I would fall off my chair.

Regulators say banks face duller future - Fri 09 Oct, 2009 11:05

BASEL, Switzerland (Reuters) - Banks will be duller in future as they creak under heavier capital requirements but risks should be clearer to investors and supervisors, global regulators and central bankers said.

The International Organisation of Securities Commissions is meeting to review steps to make the financial system safer by applying lessons from the worst crisis in 70 years.

Monitoring system-wide risks and heavy bank capital and liquidity requirements are core lessons but there are still tough talks ahead to forge a consensus on details of new rules.

"As a consequence of stronger liquidity and capital requirements banks of the future may seem more boring, with lower return on equity but less risky and frankly, probably socially much more useful," Philipp Hildebrand, designated chairman of the Swiss National Bank, told the IOSCO meeting.

The Swiss have led in toughening up capital requirements on its two biggest banks, Credit Suisse and UBS, requiring them to have Tier 1 capital ratios of 16 percent, double the level of globally-agreed rules set by the Basel Committee on Banking Supervision.

The Basel II rules are being toughened up with draft revisions due in December. The actual capital and liquidity figures will be set by the end of 2010 and take effect by the end of 2012 or when economic recovery is assured.

Banks say if capital and liquidity requirements become too heavy too soon, lending to aid recovery will be harder.

"The layering effect of all this could be quite significant which is why there will be the mother of all impact assessments next year," a regulatory source said.

The Basel revisions will include a new leverage ratio to cap how much a bank can extend itself, a new definition of capital to improve its quality, and a new liquidity ratio.

There is debate over which assets to include in a global leverage ratio -- set at 5 percent in the United States -- with some countries wanting to exclude on balance sheet assets like cash and government securities.

There is a concern that excluding cash and government bonds would send a "perverse" message, encouraging banks to cut their holdings to a minimum.

"But there is consensus emerging to include off balance sheet items but there is also a need for simplicity in a ratio," the source said. Such a leverage would be similar to Canada's.

"I think it is a big step forward that the Basel Committee is improving the quality of its ratios. Most importantly, it will be introducing a new unweighted leverage ratio, a backstop ratio of 4 percent, which is much more closely aligned with the regular accountancy rules," Hans Hoogervorst, chairman of the Dutch markets regulator AFM told the IOSCO conference.

"At least this ratio will make the overall leveraging of a bank continuously visible to the market and the regulators," Hoogervorst said.

Under Basel II, half of the 8 percent minimum overall capital requirements must be Tier 1 or higher quality capital.

Part of Tier 1 must be retained earnings or common equity and the new rules will say this should be the predominant form but no exact figure is expected.

A view is also emerging that government capital injections such as coupons should not be subject to the new tighter capital quality rules as in some cases it would not qualify.

Regulators hope that by the time the new rules take effect, most banks will have paid back government capital and substituted it with better quality capital.

The Basel Committee will also propose a simple liquidity ratio of highly liquid assets to liabilities so bans can withstand sudden shocks for a few weeks at least.

The new liquidity framework is set to be substantial and separate from Basel II, in effect a new global Liquidity I regime, as one official dubbed it.

It is expected to be similar to a liquidity regime adopted this week by Britain which requires banks to build minimum liquidity buffers of only cash or government bonds.

So far, there is no timing on when the new liquidity regime will be introduced.

The Basel Committee has already adopted rules to increase capital requirements on trading books and although figures have yet to be fixed, it will force banks with trading desks to set aside two to three times the amount of capital.

Some regulators privately hope this magnitude of increase will force banks to reconsider whether to continue trading risky products that turned toxic in the credit crunch.

And I have just fallen off my chair

Have you, were you looking at ALTONA moving higher?

ANR 4.35 / 4.40p +0.30p

well up now with 3MMs + the one at Plus market at bid for only 1 at offer
trades are on piling in during the last 20 minutes

re - ANR

A silly COW was trying to make fun of the share yesterday.

Do I see DUNG all over her face

you might break even by time you paid at higher sp and selling at lower sp margins.....plus paying costs........might be able to buy a penny chew......well done for 3 days at staring at screen

us lesser mortals relax, have a life, and still have stonking winners over the year

not sure about dung master but u do type shite and it aint just your spelling

        TAKING the PISS

re -the Silly COW believe her own nonsence on talking about ANR "

As it happens I know what I am taking about, bought at bottom below middle price 3.96p and a good sack load, no one did pay less, but some one else also managed the same price ( buying as the share price is falling allways gets you the best price on buying, and the same on selling but as SP is rising).

re - us lesser mortals relax, and still have stonking winners over the year

You are not alone in having PORTFOLIO ( if you do ) but I get better plesure on playing with someone else money T+ ( I hope you know what I mean but maybe you are just a beguiner trying to rumble with an old trader and still trying to win). Yes I notice you mood when loosing changing the subject, but you are still a looser.

WHO you relax? the husband never returns home till the day light beguins, how can you?
You have been caught posting till early hours in the morning, sleepless nights it seems instead of relax


re - might be able to buy a penny chew

I expect to do a few Thousands and it will be all mine, and will be added to Tuesdays, Wednedays and yesterdays gains, no sales today, just waching ANR rising and telling to DICK, TOM and HARRY about it.


re -shite

I was trying to be polite with the dunk, as it would do good for you ragged face, but it seems you like it smelly also.

source - reuters

Lloyds' hopes hinge on it raising about 15 billion pounds from a rights issue and 10 billion pounds from asset sales and restructuring its debt.

The rights issue would be the world's biggest ever, surpassing a 12.9 billion pound cashcall made by HSBC (HSBA.L) in March. It would represent more than half of Lloyds' current market value.

To succeed it would need to offer shares at a discount of close to 40 percent, several bankers said. Recent bumper rights issues by BNP Paribas (BNPP.PA) and Societe Generale (SOGN.PA) were set at under 30 percent.

UKFI, the body holding Britain's state interests in its rescued banks, would be asked for about 6.5 billion pounds to keep its stake at 43 percent.

The decision rests with UK finance minister Alistair Darling.

"It's a political decision. And how does a government claiming the economy is recovering turn around and say we've got to put another several billion pounds into a bank?" said Simon Maughan, analyst at MF Global.

The government could opt not to participate in a rights issue, which would dilute its stake to about 25 percent but might attract new investors in to take up the slack if the discount is about 35 percent, he said.

Several bankers and investors said Whitehall support is key to underpin an offer, however. "It is a must," said one fund manager.

The Treasury would like to maintain its stake but has not made its final decision, people familiar with the matter said. Treasury coffers could also get about 1 billion pounds from Lloyds to pay for the insurance provided by the APS since March.

Where Lloyds gets its other 10 billion pounds from could be more of an issue for UK and European regulators.

Lloyds could offload its insurance operations, notably Scottish Widows and Clerical Medical, or its 60 percent stake in wealth manager St. James's Place (SJP.L), but may struggle to get much of a capital boost from offloading those assets at a discount to embedded value.

The sale of 164-branch Cheltenham & Gloucester may not go far enough to raise capital or appease Brussels. Which means it might have to consider a more radical option -- such as selling Bank of Scotland, said MF Global's Maughan.

I am rather frustrated that everytime the newspapers mention the potential RI, we hear the same old stories/fears about dilution, and oh dropping to 40p by Friday rubbish. Do people actually analyse whether a RI is a better way to go forward than the overpriced APS + govt + EU interference before they press the short button? Obviously some people want to create a sense of dooms and panick.

I think LBG should look into the RI. Every other bank is doing it to pay off the govt bailouts, from the US to Europe at the moment. Why, because it is cheaper to run the business (hence good for the shareholders). LBG is trying to do just that. I don't know if they will succeed because not everyone believes in it. But I think that the board owes us to explore all possible ways of avoiding the APS and forced disposals of core business with the proviso that they should only act if it is in the interest of shareholders.
Good luck to all.

I don't think the SP has dropped as bad as most thought. This stock has been one of the most shorted stocks this week especially on Mon in the US (LYG) and has held up quite well. (I'm sure you have noticed the amount of people putting negative posts on this board compared to last week) Some of the posts are factually correct but slanted towards the negative parts of articles omitting the positive parts some are just bad rewrites but what we need to understand is:

1. We are not going to be nationalised

2. These shorts have to be bought back

3. This RI, GAP withdrawl asset sale will pay off, we just have to wait till next year when the dust has settled.

4. Take everything you read on this board with a pinch of salt.
(I'm still waiting for the Sept crash that the doomsters have been harping on about!!)

Everything we read on this BB with a pinch of salt???? That includes post #1041 - 1043 then? This is all just opinion & should be treated as such.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>Master RSI
Keep it up, I think most of the posters on here are grateful for your hard work and I must congratulate you on the cartoons I cant stop laughing, I am with you on the latest stocks INCH, HAWK, BPC, ANR


and further more my approach to short trading >>>>>>>>>>>>>


A reliable approach to measuring the intermediate trends is to combine the signals of the MACD and Slow Stochastic indicators.

The combination of the two indicators increases reliability.

Trading Signals
Long positions:

Look for buy signals when both the MACD and Slow Stochastic are above their signal lines.
Do not take signals if one of the indicators has crossed to below its' signal line.

Exit when both indicators cross to below their signal lines.