Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

certainly customary, especially when celebrating yet another rocket attack on hamas

Just to save washing up but when will the next election be if TM fails to get her best deal passed?

No other deal on the table she suggests - seems to have forgotten NO Deal is better than a bad deal that she banged on about for some time.

technically not until 2022, but

there are two provisions that trigger an election other than at five year intervals:

a motion of no confidence is passed in Her Majesty's Government by a simple majority and 14 days elapses without the House passing a confidence motion in any new Government formed

a motion for a general election is agreed by two thirds of the total number of seats in the Commons including vacant seats (currently 434 out of 650)

=============

having read up on what actually happens with "no deal", that really would be an awful result, and indeed parliament across the board knows and accepts that

From this weeks Moneyweek

In a no-deal situation, we would have no incentive at all to put up unnecessary import barriers – and it is hard to see how even the most bonkers members of the EU system would want to block exports to the UK (it would be an entirely unnecessary act of aggression).
World Trade Organisation (WTO) “most favoured nation” rules oblige members not to discriminate between trading partners. But they also allow exemptions for national security reasons. Short-term, that would surely cover food and medicine: our borders should be able to stay open, tariff-free, to EU goods. So talk of extreme shortages of medicine seems pretty silly.

On the export side, there would be added costs (import, export and transit documents for starters), but EU lorries that have entered the UK (85% of lorries leaving the UK for the EU are non-UK ones) must get home – and it is hardly in the interests of any EU nation to strand its own fleet in Kent for weeks. So, as John suggests, it seems likely that any chaos would be reasonably short-lived.
Read the whole of this article on the MoneyWeek website.

Bit like I've said all along George , any chaos at the ports would hit EU companies harder than UK companies so would be sorted within weeks for the sake of the EU not us.

Mays radio interview , couldn't even say yrs to her deal being better than remaining ?

Been out all day and someone just told me that but if true she's a disgrace trying to recommend her deal

Well Dil you lot voted Tory so it's your own fault...The real trouble for the rest of us is we are now stuck with her and your useless good for nothing excuse for a government in the process - do try and grow a 🧠 for next time - have a nice W/E 😎

so much tiresome sniping on this thread, which is why i do not react too often

the referendum result is a fact of life, however that came about
by a margin of 4%, the result was to leave eu

apart from the fact that eu was always going to make leaving very painful, whoever had to negotiate terms was never going to satisfy all and even carrying a majority was always going to be very tough

imo, TM has done a very good job and has certainly shown much tenacity and strength of character
corbyn has voiced nothing constructive, and merely mutters vaguely and without any substance that he/labour could have negotiated a far better deal

for myself, and quite probably the majority of the country, i think a second referendum would be an appalling choice, though i understand the argument proposing this

i would very much like to think that TM will ultimately carry the day, though there is inevitably so much partisanship on both/all sides, that i certainly would not bet on it

A democracy which ignores the present views of what the majority of the populace think of its government and policies.

The waiter, as usual, is being whimsical.

She and the Brexiteers have much in common with:

And how do you know what the present views the majority of the populace think of its government and policies are? ( last few opinion polls on big national issues show that they as a sampling method are deeply flawed)

Or do you mean what I and my acquaintances think and therefore what all sensible people should think?

We review what the people think every few years by means of a general election so the views of the proletariat are weighed then.

It is the certainty that you are right on all things that sticks in the throat.

Martini,

I don't know.

I suggest you waste your time and read my postings and my choice of words again. I think you will find that while I challenge views I am not as proscriptive in thinking as you suggest.

However, more of the public are better informed now, than they were in June 2016 of the possible/probable effects of “Brexit”, or what some saw as their “escape” from the prohibitions of the EU. (Could be analogous to what seems to be adolescents or teenagers threaten to leave or walk out of home after a minor fracas. Thinking themselves “grown up” but unaware of the complexities of “freedom”.)

Also, there seems to be an increased awareness and interest by the "younger" members of the society who have more to lose than many old self-satisfied reprobates who post on this thread.
Also, there appears to me and many others, a change in awareness of the consequences of Brexit, associated with the differing views and seeming confusion of many Brexiteers as to what they actually understand by “Brexit”, many think a second referendum would be reasonable.

Before “Brexit” goes ahead in its “present form”, with the possible or probable unprepared for social upheavals and economic chaos, I think, it would be reasonable to have either a general election, with “Brexit” proposals in the different party manifestos or another referendum with better-defined proposals or propositions.

Personally, I think the UK has benefitted from its closeness to or involvement in the EU, but while I think I am insulated from the possible “exit” problems, but I would prefer my grandchildren's future not to be diminished.

Martini,

Have a look at the initial interview with the tory hero Portillo..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bsvwy4/this-week-22112018

It has probably passed you by but we have had a generall election since the Brexit referendum and guess what the great British public voted for parties supporting Brixit.

Also how many referendums can we have?

Maybe best of 3 or 5 if a new paragraph in our engagement with Europe changes?

You are just like the European politicians in your approach to democracy, threaten the people with dia consequences if they don,t vote the right way and insist on repeated elections until they do.

Prefer that attitude to ignoring the present will of the people and relying on a referendum sold on false pretences to the public.


But you are entitled to believe whatever suits you.

But it seems to me like helping a man suffering from a depression to commit suicide before discussing his decision with him and allowing him to change his mind.

There you go again how do you know it is the present will of the people?

Goodness gracious just wear have you been in the last 6 months M?

Ahh Fred’s struggling so Stan comes to his side. So Stan maybe I missed it but can you point me to this source that shows what the great British public want. And please don.t refer me to the thoughts of chairman Fred

Fred struggling now wear did you get that from?

So you don’t know either. Sigh well I have definitive proof that the British Peppple don’t want another referendums or GE for that matter but I am not going to tell you where I got it. So there