Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Israel handing back some land does not mean that Israel hasn't taken other land and not returned it.

A couple of points relating to posts: 25 million Russians died in the last war - the Western world tends to forget that when comparing figures.

Also the point about 'terrorists' is always hazy. Were French resistance fighters terrorists when they killed German soldiers in the last war, bearing in mind that the 'lawful' government of France agreed that German soldiers should be on their soil?

Was De Gaulle a terrorist for supporting them and waging war against Germans from the UK?

Unfortunately the word seems to have been degraded and used willy-nilly in recent years. And it tends to be used about anyone who is not on 'our' side.

hi maggot//IT DEPENDS ON WHICH SIDE YOU ARE ON????

I'm familiar with the "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" argument. It's always misused in the context of current events.

The Free French were just that: their target was an invading occupying force, not innocent French civilians. The French resistance (why am I having to say this) played an important role in preparing the ground for the Allied landings.

The Vichy French government was no more legitimate than Quisling's in Norway. During the war, the legitimate Norwegian government sat in what is now the dining room of the Institute of Directors in Pall Mall. King Haakon's portrait still hangs there to this day.

a little question for all you guys ...... what is the difference between Fatah's stance on Israel and that of Hamas? ..... in giving your answer, please advise whether or not you have actually read the manifestos or merely gleaned it from assorted press and media reports

cynic - probably very little difference in their stances, though I have not read the manifestos. I suppose the main difference in background is that there are still hundreds of thousands of 'Palestinians' who can say 'We wus robbed' because they can remember pre-1948.

As MightyMicro implies above there can be a great difference between what is lawful and what is considered 'right'. Israel can point to the UN as their right to existence, while many Arabs will consider the UN action in 'creating' Israel to be unlawful.

An outsider might ask why, if Israel was ceated for Jewish people (though I am still not certain whether that refers to someone of a particular race or someone who follows the Jewish faith), a state could not be created for, say, Roman Catholics, or Mormons, or people with blue eyes, or left-handed people etc etc...

It has always seemed to me that one problem has always, and will always, stem from the fact that many Jews see themselves as extra-special. Is that unfair? Has the rest of the world perpetuated that perception?

Maggot: Mormons do have a State -- it's called Utah. :-)

On edit and on reflection, so do Roman Catholics -- Vatican City.

"It has always seemed to me that one problem has always, and will always, stem from the fact that many Jews see themselves as extra-special. Is that unfair? Has the rest of the world perpetuated that perception? "

I have never met a Jew who thought that about himself or other Jews.
Why on earth would they think that?
Perhaps by saying that you are yourself "perpetuating that perception"

Maggot, Are you thinking of the "the chosen people" mythology? I think this "belief" is part of the problem in the psyche of a minority, but still vocal group of present Israelis forming part of their driving ideology.

Hello Fred - found time in your busy retirement schedule to look at the video in post 821 yet? ;)

PS might have know you would pop up as soon as the chance to have a dig about Jews.

Isaacs, I allow you your personal pleasures, you can read the posting again, if it is so important to you.

My comment was not a dig at the Jews, but observation from listening to a Jewish woman, who used the phrase, when giving justifications for the present Israeli state and its actions.

Also, I have heard and read the statement, the Chosen People, advanced by others, when discussing the ownership of Jerusalem and their "right" (or "belief") to extend the Israeli State.

But you are entitled to understand the content of the postings according to your own constructs.

Also, I would suggest you read the qualifications I made in that post, before tapping the keyboard.

I don't recall disagreeing with the thrust of your statement Fred just amusing myself at the speed with which you popped up. I look forward to a similarly speedy response next chance there is something negative to say about Hamas or Muslims more generally. Doubtless you will be busy enjoying your busy retirement at that point.

Or perhaps even busy watching the video in post 821 . . . :-)

Isaacs, Just helping to make the argument a little more balanced.

In the view of many people, retiring was my best action yet. Little do they know. 8-)

Fred/MrCharts. I asked the question because I know very little about Jews other than that which I have read, and from my own observations that some, at least, want to stand out from everybody else by wearing clothing which marks them, unfailingly, as Jews.

Anyway, I suspect that lots of Palestinians living in Gaza have that perception, rightly or wrongly. That certainly explains their inbuilt hatred of Israel.

I understand the 'chosen people' syndrome is certainly advanced by Zionists. Perhaps it is not typical of the beliefs of the majority of Jews.

Maggot

"and from my own observations that some, at least, want to stand out from everybody else by wearing clothing which marks them, unfailingly, as Jews.

Anyway, I suspect that lots of Palestinians living in Gaza have that perception, rightly or wrongly. That certainly explains their inbuilt hatred of Israel."

You really mean that? The clothing that distinguishes ultra religious jewish clergy explains why the Palestinians hate Israel?

How do you think they feel about vicars? And what with all those fancy clothes, do you suppose they want to bomb the shit out of the Vatican?

And as for the clothing in general, can you tell the difference between these ultra religious jews and the quakers? I often can't.

An incredible and uncharacteristic lapse in your usual no nonsense common sense posting style, maggot. Were you drunk?

Hi Gausie. No I wasn't drunk. Pointing out that it's my belief that practicing Jews wear clothing that deliberately distinguishes them - as opposed to, say, practicing Christians who don't, so far as I know. And while even last night there were headline news stories about the Holocaust relating to Jews, it's not so often that I hear headline stories about more recent massacres on the Balkans or Africa, or Ethiopia (when thousands of schoolchildren were killed one weekend) or stories about how Russians were buried alive in their tens of thousands in German concentration camps.

And I wasn't expressing my own feelings, merely trying to see how the constant outpouring of indignation about Jews killed in the Holocaust (which for any Palestinian under 60 was way back in the past), might seem to Palestinians in Gaza, which was the subject of the original thread.

On the subject of clothing, I was driving back through Antwerp early one morning and the sight of literally dozens of young and older Jews walking the streets wearing skull caps, black overcoats and the adult men sporting huge black beards, was definitely surreal - I can imagine how easily a Palestinian whose family had been killed by Isreali fire, might react.

So far as I am aware Quakers in Britain (of which my Great Uncle was one; also a missionary in China, Malaya and Kenya) don't wear distinguishing clothes as a matter of course - the ones I have known never did, anyway. I believe ultra-religious Quakers might wear large-brimmed hats with their black jackets and knickerbocker-type trousers.

I could also have made similar points about practising Muslims, of course. Which might have a similar effect on some Jews whose families had been killed by Palestinian fire. It's not my perception that's important - it's the perception of those in the conflict.

But thanks for reading - this is one of the places I learn about things of which I actually know little.

jews who choose to dress in traditional garb (that's another interesting question actually), do not do so because they want to show they belong to the club, but because their religious belief demands it .... your comment on that issue is therefore a considerable distortion of the truth ..... standard media reporting if you like!

Maggot - the similarity to Quakers is a good one. Most jews don't wear the 'costume' you describe - and if you think about it, you probably already knew that although maybe hadn't realised.

Think of jews you will have seen pictures or newsreel of. People like Madonna, Alan Sugar, Al Greenspan, Nigel Lawson, Michael Howard, Michael Winner, Malcolm Rifkind, Albert Einstein, Karl Marx (along with Harpo, Groucho, Chico, Gummo and Zeppo), Henry Kissinger, Charlie Chaplin, Marc Bolan, Sammy Davis Jr, Annie Lennox, Tony Curtis, Barry manilow, Neil Diamond, Leonard Cohen, Stephen Spielberg, Brian Epstein, Sacha Baron Cohen, Matt Lucas, Mark Knopfler, Slash from Guns n roses, Bernard Madoff, Vidal Sassoon, George Soros, Larry Ellison, Michael Dell, Moshe Dayan, Ben Stiller, Leon Brittan, Art Garfunkel, Richard Dreyfuss, Elliot Gould, Leonard Nimoy, Henry Winkler, Kirk Douglas, Billy Joel, Peter Sellers, Stephen Sondheim, Ben Kingsley, Mel Brooks, Woody Allen, Robert Downey Jr, Paul Newman, Isaac Asimov, Carl Sagan, Will Self, Harold Pinter etc etc etc etc

I think the only black hat you'll find in that lot was Charlie Chaplin. And it's the wrong kind of hat.