Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

I do hope you took your gilet jaune, Martini.

:o)

She has not moved.

The expectations of the Theresa and the torrid party for the UK!

if a 2nd referendum is forced upon us all, how would you vote?
would that be the same as the first time around?

for myself and my wife, we would both vote to leave as we did first time around, and would be satisfied to take the current terms on offer ..... much more negotiation still to come of course

The PM continues to repeat the same few sentences over and over again in reply to questions and without actually answering any of them in a clean way. Thus she gives no sign that she is even listening to the serious concerns being expressed, particularly those about us being stuck in a loop with the backstop. It's as though she has memorised a few sentences and will continue to spout them until she goes down in flames, just as she did during her recent disastrous election campaign.

Not withstanding, that today we have been told, that the tax burden on households and businesses has hit a 50-year high: 34.6 per cent of gross domestic product.

There is no point to the Tory Party if it doesn’t cut taxes, or at the very least hold them steady.

It would seem Taxpayers are being hammered more heavily nowadays than during the worst of the Gordon Brown era. We are paying even more nowadays than during the socialist Seventies.

The Tory party cannot see that it has lost its way. I now blame the Tory Party for allowing Theresa May to continue in office for so long.

They must now lose the next General Election and what have we got to replace them with? A bunch of bloody Marxists. How very depressing.

Ex.

You must have found the "Road to Damascus".

8-)

EL - then surely my question above is very relevant

Gina Miller:

“The reality is, that the Brexit vote is not going to get through Parliament in nine days time. What is Plan B?

1. Is it an election that TM calls herself?
2. It is an election that the Labour Party wants to call through a vote of no-confidence?
3. Is it an alternative?
4. Is it sending us back?

Whatever the alternatives are, other than no-deal, would require an extension to Article 50.

This idea that there is no majority in Parliament for no-deal, I must just point out, if there is no other option because of the MP’s allowing Article 50 to be triggered no-deal is the legal end game here.

So MP’s cannot stop it because they should have been having these debates when I won my case.

So many MP’s triggered Article 50 without really thinking about the consequences of the actual legal end game of that trigger which is no-deal if there is no other option.”

Gina Miller, now a prominent supporter of the People's Vote campaign for a second referendum, warned Theresa May's deal will lead the country to a "constitutional crisis".

Sir Keir Starmer has said Labour will seek to call a motion of no confidence in the Government if Theresa May loses a Commons vote on her Brexit deal.

a reply to my own question is therefore relevant and interesting

Cynic

Since Theresa May is being coercive and undemocratic, I do not want her to lead the country any longer. She is a Remainer. I want to see a Brexiteer leading the country and in a very enthusiastic manner too.

Brexit should be something to look forward to and, as an end result, should surely put the whole country into a better position than it is now. This is not being sold to us. In fact, it is as though it might well not do that.

Currently, for instance, we could get trapped in the back stop and thus lose our fishing rights and not even be able to enter world wide trade deals.

What we are also clearly beginning to see, is a coercive and devious prime minister forcing her own agenda through parliament and in a non-democratic way. She appears to be blind to the strong potential that the December 11th vote will be lost and by a massive 100 votes or more.

If I could see the way ahead more clearly, then I would be more easily able to answer your question.

I voted 'Out'. I still believe a better future for the UK exists outside the EU than remaining within. That belief is being strongly questioned at the moment as events unfurl.

Fingers crossed, that things happen so as to propel us out more safely, firmly and enthusiastically.

Regards to fishing rights and Gibraltar which appear to be for future discussion ie after voting on this 'TM Deal'. What happened to nothing is agreed until everything is agreed?

as you are probably aware, my estimation of TM has grown considerably, and i think the deal she managed to cut with brussels in supremely difficult circumstances, was as good as one could have hoped for - well not you and other hard line brexiteers i suppose

at least it is clear that if another referendum is foisted upon us by another bunch of self-serving politicians, you would vote to leave once again

"cynic Send an email to cynic View cynic's profile - 02 Dec 2018 10:49 - 10435 of 10443

if a 2nd referendum is forced upon us all, how would you vote?
would that be the same as the first time around?

for myself and my wife, we would both vote to leave as we did first time around, and would be satisfied to take the current terms on offer ..... much more negotiation still to come of course"

Alf,

We can't possibly have merely "a 2nd referendum" as everyone in the Country have had the time in between that referendum to be "informed" of some important elements that were not explained by the outers before the last one and the 1st "informed referendum" that should now happen...how many more times do you need to have this explained?

Manuel.

as you are probably aware, my estimation of TM has grown considerably, and i think the deal she managed to cut with brussels in supremely difficult circumstances, was as good as one could have hoped for - well not you and other hard line brexiteers i suppose

-=--=--=

The mess that the government led by T May has made is self-inflicted, but the people paying the bill will be the less able to do so.

Partially due to the typical conceit and arrogance of her, some of her appointed cabinet members and neo-fascist elitist tendencies of the present leadership and some other members of the tory party.

Also, the prime movers Osborne and Cameron caused the problem by trying for egotistical party politicial reasons to resolve their inability to settle the discord in their own party.

Obviously, they have failed.

The cost of said "negotiations and her flights" around Europe the country trying to sustain her crazy ideas should be born by herself and the tory party and not paid for by the general public.

These costs are based on her party politics and her thoughts to be of benefits to her "party" and herself, not in that of her country's.

She has admitted that the outcome of Brexit will be detrimental to Britain.

If you observe the economic figures that it already proving to be happening.

-==-=-==

I am not sure when the next general election will occur, but at the moment I think the tory party chances of winning it or any such election in the next 20years are minimal.

I think it will need a coalition government to try to sort out the chaos and bring back some form of acceptable unity.

I warmed very, very much (as did wifey) towards Michael Gove, who appeared on this morning's Andrew Marr show.

AM does interrupt an awful lot but MG did manage to get his own main very important points across in a very clear way:

1. He is supporting the PM's present deal and which is admits is not perfect.

2. He says, that the main problem for him is the backstop (naturally) but it is just as big a problem, if not more so, for the EU. So its not perfect for them either. Wifey got this too.

Importantly, if the back stop is ever triggered and we get to become a bit worried, say by the French arguing the toss about fishing grounds, we can A. Continue trading with the EU and B. Whilst not being forced to pay in any monthly EU contribution and also C. Have an open border and also D. Continue doing pretty much our own thing around the world with trading, etc.

Therefore, A, B and C would be the case, he feels the EU would want to discontinue the backstop arrangement more quickerer than wot we wud. So that's nice.

He won me over to accept the PM's deal too.

But I still want rid of TM. Because he is more of a democrat and managed to get this important 'backstop point' across (despite Andrew Marr's interruptions) I wouldn't mind him becoming PM (and it's OK for wifey too).

I wanted to put a link up so you can see this interview on YouTube. There isn't one on there yet but I will look out for it.

thanks for your customary marxist polemic fred
as usual i have skipped past as you're just seriously dull

anyway, as you never vote, the question i asked could have been of no possible interest to you

stan - i assume you actually voted first time around, so my question for you remains valid

Exec,

I warmed very, very much (as did wifey) towards Michael Gove, who appeared on this morning's Andrew Marr show.

-==

You must have been b. cold.

Next, you will be saying Theresa would warm the cockles of your heart.

-=-=-=-=-=

Manuel.

How ungrateful of you when somebody has paid attention to you.

Go and ask Nanny Theresa for a cuddle.

The big question for Stan is what comes first ... Brexit or a Burnley win ?

Did Blackburn vote remain ? You could always move there and support them Stan , makes sense.

On the ITV news website (Robert Pexton column): it looks like TM has joined I'm a celeb get me out of here with the palm-tree backround....the way it's going : she might as well.....to me we are going to get more emu than EU....or is it the other way round ?...