Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

Think you put the e's in wrong place Stan.

EL reading that the back stabbing Gove has suckered you to support TM`s position beggers belief.

Better you watch Mogg in House of Commons live.

stan clearly can't make up his own mind how to vote in the event that there is a(nother) referendum, but just dances around the issue as fred's little puppet

it was interesting to hear today from a small group of important and very well educated saudi businessmen that they all thought uk would be well shot of brussels and was strong enough in the longer term to flourish

Manuel,

Still crawling in SA.

Be careful you never know when you will have served your purpose for them.

Some of the objections to the backstop may merely be technicalities. However, even as technicalities, they are important and require consideration.

Membership of the EU does allow member states to be able share security information. Leave and you aren't any longer a member.

eg. So a non-member has a potential lack of access to certain levels of (sensitive) security information.

Well, this might be a factual technical possibility but it can, does and will work both ways, if it has to.

But it does NOT have to work like that if it isn't sensible. Mutual sharing of sensitive security information need not necessarily have to stop - even though the backstop agreement analysis says it could.

EL, why do you think Colum Eastwood and Michelle O'Neill say the Brexit backstop must remain in the deal?

Sinn Fein want it to stay forever, with the deal - they will get their way imo.

As for security - why did the last minister resign? Have you missed that news.

From Day 1 the UK should have said - we are leaving - You do XXX amount of trade with us, we only buy X from you, these are our terms if you want us to continue to support you - not beg them for a deal - we should have dictated the terms fron day one.

Do you mean a little like remaining a member of the EU, paying your dues and sharing the benefits of membership?

You have made it clear that you never accepted the results that 52% vote to leave - do you not understand the word LEAVE Fred?

it amazes and amuses me that fred can rant so much when he can't ever be bothered to vote for what he says he believes

psst! i would guarantee that even the marxist brotherhood would not renege on its arms contracts with saudi on the grounds of righteous outrage against the kashoggi murder

Clocktower

You seem to be making quite strong personal attacks on anyone you deem doesn't see things exactly like you do. If you want to argue, debate or whatever, then "great". I think we all love doing it, actually, but do stop making most of your comments so angry or personal, please. :-)

Gove isn't 'back stabbing'.
Gove hasn't suckered me.
Fred does understand the word LEAVE (obviously).

Oh, and FYI, I do think TM has been a very, very poor negotiator and I'm a great fan of JRM and I do like the oratory of BJ.

I do accept, that JRM has reminded us, that under the backstop, it just might be that the EU levy some special taxes (on Ireland or whatever?) - which we might get to be on the receiving end of. Then we might get to receive "taxation without representation". Annexe 2. Article 3. Sub-section 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6FUeEOcApw

Nevertheless, some sort of 'backstop' is required. TM has not been negotiating well at all. She merely wants to coerce her way through her Brexit ministers, the cabinet and the EU too. She didn't seem to want anything back in return for her £39 bn. Nobody seems to know exactly what it is for.

EL - you and i choose to disagree, but no matter

Alf waffling is assuably a sign of his total inability to engage intelligently.

Exec.

Do you mean TM is a short-sighted stubborn incompetent?

Fred that sounds like a disciption of Alf 😃

Exec , there is no need of a back stop from a UK perspective it's there for the sake of the EU only.

We have said we will not put up a hard border so it's their problem if there is no deal and they know it. Ireland won't put up a hard border either so they get us to sign up for this crappy back stop deal.

Most of the rest of the deal I can live with for now but the back stop is one step too far.

I was not convinced by Gove's interpretation although the out comes he suggest are probably possible I think they are highly unlikely in reality.

If the deal gets passed you can bet your bottom dollar on us ending up having to use it or it being used as a major tool against us in trade negotiations.

Best outcome in the weeks ahead is May goes and the party gets behind a new leader who gives the EU an ultimatum that the back stop goes or we walk away on the 29th March with no deal and we start new negotiations from there.

Stan can stick his second referendum where the sun doesn't shine as whatever the result it won't solve a thing whichever way you vote.

Another leave vote and we are back where we are now and a remain vote and we spend another two years arguing about the terms we stay in on while leavers campaign for another referendum.

Really Dilbert, I did think that you'd know how these things work by now!!!

After the Great British public have returned the correct vote in the next referendum, that'll be it. You'll be staying in the EU, there won't be any more referenda, and you'll just have to get over it, because no prime minister will ever be stupid enough again to think the public are capable of making the right decision.

Lol Hils , if there was another referendum the question should be the EUs deal or clean break.

There shouldn't be one and there won't be one largely due to no one being able to agree on the question.

Both main parties only have a mandate to leave the EU and it'll happen in 115 days time one way or another.

And it's you who need to get over it :-)

On verra, Dilbert. ;o)

CNG - It is not about the decision now - it is now about credibility and accountability. Once you ask the people, then you follow their wishes, and not turn and twist to try to get a result that you think is best for the people because they never voted the way you wished they would, on the false basis that they were clueless (even if 48% were).

The public in my view think the EU is nothing more than a parasitic being, that has to be cut off regardless of the short term pain and damage to the body.

The parasite will live off of you, bleeding you dry, better to cut off a limb than be infected for life.

Are you willing to live not knowing if or when the parasitic being will ever leave, or would you rather cut off an arm and know your free from suffering for an unknow period of time, maybe for ever.

EL, I have nothing personal against Fred or any other poster but you cannot deny that Gove stuck the knife in the back of Boris, for his own ends. While he might be a nice bloke, I would not want to fight with him at my back, as I think he would be more likely to shoot anyone in the back than those they are fighting in front of them, if he though he could gain power by doing so, based on his past performance.

Speaking of Fred, he is at least consistent.