Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

And also:

Apparently, we can cancel Brexit. That’s what the advocate general to the court of justice of the EU, Europe’s highest court, advised this morning.

The advocate general, Manuel Campos Sánchez-Bordona, said that the UK can cancel its article 50 notice unilaterally. This means that if our own parliament decides that our interests are best served by remaining, the EU cannot stand in our way.

His decision is not certain to be followed by the full court – which has yet to announce when it will give its judgment – but courts follow their advocate general in the overwhelming majority of cases. And if it does here, we are much more likely to stay in the EU.

You forgot to mention, Doc, that following one of last night's votes, if Maggie Dismay loses next week's vote as is widely expected, Parliament now decides the next course of action rather than the Government.

That effectively means that the Gammons' No Deal is no longer an option. Quelle dommage!!

Andrea Leadsom says it is her firm political opinion that, since the backstop is so detrimental to the interests of the EU, that it would not be allowed by the EU to kick in anyway.

She says, the whole problem now is that there is no particular clear majority for any deal. This is because the whole problem of leaving the EU is so complicated.

Thus, on March 29th, it's either:

1. The PM's deal or
2. No deal

because there are no other deal son the table.

Posts cross....

Ha ha ha.

:-)

Dominic Raab says we should merely put (cobble) our best deal together, go to the EU and tell them, "Take it or Leave it'.

I thinks that's the best answer now. Parliament does a series of votes, etc, etc.

Somebody should tell Dominic Raab that major political battles are always fought and won on the middle ground, and that extremist views of one persuasion or another have no place in modern society.

Quite right Exec. The EU Withdrawal Act is law. Therefore we leave. No amount of parliamentary motions will change that. Yesterday was just a chance for the unruly remainer nutters to let off steam and the leaver tories to put pressure on May to review the backstop.. The only useful outcome was that the government will publish the full AG opinion. Change the backstop and the Government is home and dry. Don't and we leave with no deal. Either way suits me but the former is clearly the better option and the EU Commissariat know that.

"UK services PMI hits 28-month lows of 50.4 in November, a negative surprise
By Dhwani Mehta
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The services sector activity in the UK economy deteriorated unexpectedly in the month of November, surprising markets to the downside, a fresh report from Markit Economics showed on Wednesday.

The services PMI dropped to 50.4 in November versus a 52.2 reading booked in October. Markets predicted 52.5 last month.

Key Points:

Marginal expansion of overall business activity.

Employment growth moderates to four-month low.

Business optimism weakest since July 2016.

Chris Williamson, Chief Business Economist at IHS Markit, which compiles the survey:

“A sharp deterioration in service sector growth leaves the economy flatlining in November as Brexit concerns intensified. Measured across services, manufacturing and construction, the survey results suggest that the pace of economic growth has stalled. With the exception of July 2016, when business slumped in the immediate aftermath of the EU referendum, November saw the worst performance since February 2013.”

“The surveys are so far consistent with 0.1% GDP growth in the fourth quarter, thanks to the expansion seen back in October, but growth momentum has since been lost and risks are clearly tilted to the downside.”

“A contraction of service sector business activity in November was only avoided by firms working through backorders to an extent not exceeded since 2009. As such, unless demand revives, a slide into economic decline at the turn of the year is a distinct possibility.”

“Both the slowdown in current business activity and the deterioration in business optimism were primarily caused by an intensification of anxieties over Brexit. Uncertainty in relation to the withdrawal agreement and the possibility of no deal was often reported to have caused companies and customers to cancel or postpone spending and investment decisions. Clarity in relation to Brexit arrangements is therefore urgently needed to help ensure the current stalling of growth does not translate into a downturn.”

Wow Fred , being the economy should have gone into free fall over two years ago and house prices tumbled by 30%+ with mass unemployment sweeping the country then you must be rather pleased with those figures.

How do the EU figures look in comparison ?

Hils , that's not an extremist view it's quite sensible and long term would be good for the country. Just ask the EU what it wants to agree on which are beneficial to both sides like security , citizenship , etc then have an amicable no deal exit.

When the public that voted to leave up and down the country do not get to leave, I think you will see an even greater degree of unrest over everything from public services to pay - the pound will suffer far more than it would have under a no deal, which may have caused a short sharpe shock but that would have been it.

Turmoil , disorder, uproar and mayhem will follow as Parliament will have let down 52% of the people - the only way out now is another vote - Clean Break or In being the only two questions.

Outers...have you not heard of trends, well obviously the trend is for that informed referendum that I and others have been banging on about for Christ sake how long.

You forgot plague of Locusts CT

Lol M , and the horsemen

Stan only trend in Burnley is bell bottoms and tank tops.

The atmosphere in No 10 must seem similar to the last days of the Reich in the Führerbunker, with its little soldier boys shouting on the street.

There will not be another referendum. The fact that people like Fred didn't vote or that Stan didn't read the 18 page propaganda document from the government is no excuse. It even provided an easy read version for those like him that have difficulty in understanding words of more than two syllables.
You forgot that Burnley is also trending out of the Premier League, Dil. The atmosphere in Burnley must be bad, Sean Dyche is losing his voice. He needs to move back to the clean air in the south.

LOL M -maybe I should have also warned of pandemomium, mayhem, chaos and a host of other states of social disorder we may find ourselves in as anarchy might rule the day before long. We already have no go areas in various places in the country due to a lack of policing and various religious quarters that act like a tribe that demands self rule and undermines and subverts and destabilizes the country.

Role on the day when the UK takes back control.

It.

Your certainty is truly amazing.

Is it the basis for a new cult religion?

CNG - pretty much agree with you


Dubai - the only thing that goes cheep here are the birds, though if you know where the locals eat, it is certainly a fractionof what you get charged in tourist traps

I think tons of people, MPs included, are forgetting one vital thing:

As soon as we go back to tell the EU, that we want to remove the backstop, the EU are going to want something for doing it. If it is removed, it is going to cost us big time.

Just had some early Christmas wishes by way of the usual seasonal letter from a now retired friend of mine who now lives in Germany and was a previous head of the British Council out in the middle east. In it he explains how he has lived more in Europe than the UK. He has really been around and sorta kinda knows what he is talking about and spent a lifetime working for peace and international understanding

Main thing politically from him: He is so sad that the EU 'has lost us' and primarily blames the likes of the 'egotistical types like the buffoon Boris Johnson'.

I kind of agree with my friend about Boris, and more so after BJ's haphazard mish-mash of a performance yesterday afternoon in the Commons, when nobody really wanted to listen to him any further with tons of MPs speaking over him and now treating him with much disrespect. He will now never become PM.

I kind of disagree with him though, in that the EU was not democratic and we could not ever be able to adequately influence things. Unlimited movement of people was fine and noble - but not when you are an island already loaded up with a great free NHS and are already chock-a-block with your roads and pollution and schools.

My friend explains and feels, that our electorate has not properly understood how close our ties with the EU have been with our indispensable reliance on free movement of people for our services, hospitals, agriculture and industry.

He misses, possibly because of his travels, our national great feeling of 'being taken for a ride by the EU and by its lack of democracy and impingement of rule'. We solidly thought we were made to be rule takers by it and not allowed at all to be rule makers.

I don't think we have to bin in the EU to have a peaceful relationship with them. Albeit, that I do worry about our loss of the 'EU Security Systems' - resulting in us being made to be starved of 'quick data searching'. (Could we recruit Assange to hack into it for us? Hmmm?). How miserable of them!

Now the full legal advice has been published -it is clear that more MP`s should sign up to the no confidence motion and get TM out ASAP.