Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

a very good read - i actually managed the whole of it!

in fact, it just confirms my opinion that none of us has any clue what will happen once WA is defeated heavily in westminster on tuesday, let alone what will happen in the coming 18+ months, and then a further 5/10 years down the line

with great misgivings i voted to leave in the referendum, and i am almost sure i shall do so again if a 2nd referendum is foisted upon us

Maybe of help!

"The European Commission (EC) is an institution of the European Union, responsible for proposing legislation, implementing decisions, upholding the EU treaties and managing the day-to-day business of the EU.[2] Commissioners swear an oath at the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg City, pledging to respect the treaties and to be completely independent in carrying out their duties during their mandate.[3] Unlike in the Council of the European Union, where members are directly and indirectly elected, and the European Parliament, where members are directly elected, the Commissioners are appointed by the European Council and confirmed by the European Parliament.

The Commission operates as a cabinet government, with 28 members of the Commission (informally known as "commissioners").[4] There is one member per member state, but members are bound by their oath of office to represent the general interest of the EU as a whole rather than their home state.[3]

And so on.

Have a look at members of the "unelected" cabinet office "helping" to make laws and administrate the UK.

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I suppose they don't come round knocking on your doors.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission

roll on the 3rd uniformed referendum.

Martini,

What will you be wearing this time?

"Jankers!"

Manuel,

Her is your heroine!

I find it unacceptable this talk of a second referendum !.....this business of the MP's deciding the fate of what has become a complete Brexit mess by remainers is a total disgrace....and now oh !...we shall have a second referendum.....is the supposed answer.....need to send the gilets jaunes down to Westminster !....

RF.

Have a look at :

"Brexit
As Churchill saw, Britain’s glory is not found in isolation"



https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/09/david-lammy-brexit-is-a-betrayal

It is very concise.

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Interesting article

Also, well written and informed, which may be of interest to is "It' time for May to put her deal to the people"

http://guardian.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx#

Ooooops. The ECJ have ruled this morning on their chief advocate's advice from last week, and the bad news is that the UK can unilaterally change their mind if they want and stay.

Time to get the white flag out and surrender, Dilbert. Even the Currant Bun's most rabid slice of gammon is now admitting that there's no chance of Brexit happening.

:o)

the concept and indeed the actuality of EEC - a common market - was excellent

federal europe, especially as it has now evolved, is pretty awful on all sorts of levels
without some fundamental reform, it is far from impossible that eu will ultimately implode
unfortunately, those who hold the power within the governing body of eu show no interest in so doing

"We live in interesting times" has never been a truer saying at the moment Alf.

Your not wrong the EU like most large concerns does need constant reform which needs a will to do so which has not been seen to be there from UK governments of all colours, but maybe just maybe when we do continue our membership we will actually take more of an interest than we did before and lead that reform.

Just trying to catch up on the thread - some great posts from EL - took a while to read.

Post 10650 cynic - spot on - well set out reasons why we need a clean break now.

If we stay in the EU, then it is likely that due to May and Crew the UK will be on the "naughty step" for quite a while before they play a major role in new reforming negotiations.

The pain of stupidity.

good morning stan ..... i don't see how you can logically put the failings and self-servitude of the eu plutocracy at the door of successive uk gov'ts ......

to me, it looks to be at the very heart of the whole institution, perhaps best summed up by the fact that members are forbidden from criticising the regime or risk losing their over-generous pensions

the following link confirms
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/4996440/Lord-Mandelson-must-remain-loyal-to-EU-to-guarantee-pension.html

About time Le Taupe Cardies manned the barricades in Whitehall.

Hils , I'd press the button to unilaterally remain , then trigger article 50 again just to wind the buggers in Brussels up.

A 'Clean Break' with the EU with the UK leaving under WTO rules would be my own preference.

And with Theresa May ousted and with a new leader chosen from one of the following three likely contenders:

Dominic Raab (8/1), Jeremy Hunt (9/1), Michael Gove (10/1)

"good morning stan ..... i don't see how you can logically put the failings and self-servitude of the eu plutocracy at the door of successive uk gov'ts ...... "

I never said that but like any one or institution that tries to "manipulate" itself for some narrow benefits unless they are challenged they will continue to "try it on".

Which is why I made the point that now (assuming we don't actually leave) that who ever is in Government should now get together with other dissatisfied Countries and start to address those anomalies that we all think are not in the common long term interest of the vast majority of the EU members.

How many decades has UK sat on the sidelines and just criticised? Instead of trying to do something about it.. and keeping at it!

Will it be easy? of course not, is it needed - absolutely but the sooner we get going in leading the way in the EU the better!

Agreed.