Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

"We live in interesting times" has never been a truer saying at the moment Alf.

Your not wrong the EU like most large concerns does need constant reform which needs a will to do so which has not been seen to be there from UK governments of all colours, but maybe just maybe when we do continue our membership we will actually take more of an interest than we did before and lead that reform.

Just trying to catch up on the thread - some great posts from EL - took a while to read.

Post 10650 cynic - spot on - well set out reasons why we need a clean break now.

If we stay in the EU, then it is likely that due to May and Crew the UK will be on the "naughty step" for quite a while before they play a major role in new reforming negotiations.

The pain of stupidity.

good morning stan ..... i don't see how you can logically put the failings and self-servitude of the eu plutocracy at the door of successive uk gov'ts ......

to me, it looks to be at the very heart of the whole institution, perhaps best summed up by the fact that members are forbidden from criticising the regime or risk losing their over-generous pensions

the following link confirms
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/4996440/Lord-Mandelson-must-remain-loyal-to-EU-to-guarantee-pension.html

About time Le Taupe Cardies manned the barricades in Whitehall.

Hils , I'd press the button to unilaterally remain , then trigger article 50 again just to wind the buggers in Brussels up.

A 'Clean Break' with the EU with the UK leaving under WTO rules would be my own preference.

And with Theresa May ousted and with a new leader chosen from one of the following three likely contenders:

Dominic Raab (8/1), Jeremy Hunt (9/1), Michael Gove (10/1)

"good morning stan ..... i don't see how you can logically put the failings and self-servitude of the eu plutocracy at the door of successive uk gov'ts ...... "

I never said that but like any one or institution that tries to "manipulate" itself for some narrow benefits unless they are challenged they will continue to "try it on".

Which is why I made the point that now (assuming we don't actually leave) that who ever is in Government should now get together with other dissatisfied Countries and start to address those anomalies that we all think are not in the common long term interest of the vast majority of the EU members.

How many decades has UK sat on the sidelines and just criticised? Instead of trying to do something about it.. and keeping at it!

Will it be easy? of course not, is it needed - absolutely but the sooner we get going in leading the way in the EU the better!

Agreed.

i know that is one of the arguments for staying in except, as i pointed out, no one is allowed to criticise the regime ...... i suppose losing your pension is not as severe as the penalty for criticising the crown prince, but even so ...... "the club" is far too cosy and always has been, but is getting worse and worse

as i have said all along, i had grave misgivings about voting "out", and would have been content had the majority been to remain - it wasn't

"as i have said all along, i had grave misgivings about voting "out", and would have been content had the majority been to remain - it wasn't"


Somebody needs to develop a backbone and get splints for his knees, in order to stop his wobblings.

Theresa May aborts planned vote on Brexit deal

Theresa May has aborted a planned vote on her Brexit deal on Tuesday - according to several sources close to cabinet ministers - in a humiliating setback for a prime minister who was facing a heavy defeat in the House of Commons.
Downing St said at 11.15am that the vote was going ahead "as planned" but shortly afterwards the prime minister told her cabinet on a conference call it would be postponed, according to officials briefed on the matter. Number 10 has so far declined to comment.



don't see the point in postponing

But the "slim majority" were uninformed as I have indicated many times and that now after two years we must all be better informed.

We must have this now "informed referendum" ASLP in my and many other peoples opinion.

Manuel,

Postponing?

Needing time to get the funeral cortege organised for the shambling tory party departure.

I wonder how many cons will lose their seats at the next General Election?

-=-=-=-=
In, out, poke it all about.

i think the next GE will see yet another hung parliament

fred - better to cast a vote with misgivings than to pontificate from the sidelines and refuse to vote at all

We do not need a vote now to make a clean break - just let it roll till 29 March

ASLP... I looked that up since I am uninformed and found that it stands for "Age, sex, location, picture?" Have you been out with the dogs again?
ps. That slim majority is a lot more than Burnley have had in total attendance since it managed to claw its way back into the Premier League. Brief as it will be.