Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

from what i understand, there is actually a willingness on both sides, but it seems to be the mechanics that are so difficult

If you wrap a turd in Christmas Paper it remains a turd, and that is all TM will at best bring back. Let them keep their Xmas wrapping and stick it!

If TM runs the clock down and labour caves in to her deal rather tha get a real Brexit then JC`s days are numbered.

so tell me albeit in an amateurish way, exactly how you think "your" brexit could be put together and to work from day 1

LOL cynic, In the same way as the likes of Mogg & co. i.e. Put nothing down on paper then you can declare that eveything is going to plan, and anyway it was always TM`s fault for not planning for a clean break. Hey Ho, within weeks you would have 17.2 million people Happy.

oh, so you think that at day 1 she should have told the other 27 to stick their club up their arses and uk goes on its merry way with no repercussions or anything else?

I think the gammon here are forgetting the little matter of Dominic Grieve's amendment which was voted on last week and passed.

If/when Maggie Dismay comes back empty handed from Brussels, and goes to the house without any significant amendments to the withdrawal bill before 21st January which get voted down, then it becomes the power of Parliament to tell the Government what to do next. Seeing as the Brextremists are in a significant minority within Parliament, then the no deal scenario that everyone here likes to bang on about will no longer be an option. You'll be looking at options such as a second referendum, an extension of Article 50, or even a total withdrawal of Article 50.

The EU will have done their homework and know this already. From a position of strength they won't offer her anything new, but I wouldn't be surprised if they offer a sweetener to stay.

:o)

Oh, and I hope Maggie told Moggy last night to stick his coffin where the sun doesn't shine!

:o)

hard to know, and i confess all well beyond my limited mental capacity, even if i wanted to spend my time mulling over this murky soup

i am really cross with dominic grieve
he is our local mp and the referendum result in the constituency was firmly to leave
imo he therefore had an obligation to fight that corner and not pursue his own questionable agenda

Cyners,

The Government need to be accountable, so well done to Grieve, I say. They've been poncing about for the last 2 years, only coming up with a plan this summer, and they've carried out naff all no deal preparations, so they can't be allowed to steamroller their way through with threats of Maggie's Deal or No Deal.

And the perverse side of my nature makes me think that Maggie sprung a trap on the Brextremists last night by suckering them into submitting their letters and thinking the time was right to take her down.

I hope Maggie hasn't come back to life.

i accept what you say, but nevertheless at no point has grieve ever fought for the wishes of his constituents in this issue, and surely that is why you elect an mp

Fred,

I know I keep you amused but I feel I'm being used.

he's old enough to be your grandpa

Yes, it's mid December and I really should be back at school.

careful or you'll get fred overexcited :-)

"Certain MPs will go further and invoke solemnly the words of Edmund Burke in his famous speech to the electors of Bristol (1774):

Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.

There is sense in this approach."

For a moment I was confused by Cerise's innocence.

“cynic Send an email to cynic View cynic's profile - 13 Dec 2018 17:00 - 10831 of 10833

i accept what you say, but nevertheless at no point has grieve ever fought for the wishes of his constituents in this issue, and surely that is why you elect an mp”

Interesting as quite a lot of MP,s have done just that put their constituents first if only to protect their own jobs at the next election but you say that Grieve has not.

Well that clearly suggests that like Mogg he is putting his own self interests first, now I wonder what they could be.

He’s your MP so what exactly did he do before becoming and MP?

he was a barrister and subsequently qc so hardly unemployable!

Ceries.

Not for Manuel.

If I was only a week younger!

In Your Arms - Poem by Azura Cerise
When I lie soft in your arms
I forget the rest of the world around me
No other sound reaches my resigned ears
Save racing beats of heart
Yours or mine – all the same.
You pierce your stunned eyes through mine
And all I see through my resigned eyes
Is myself in your eyes.
Your lips touch mine
Kissing me like a baby
And your hands struggle with my clothes
And win a victory…

And then I cannot distinguish myself from you…
Azura Cerise