Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

The Scottish Tories are preparing to back a second Brexit referendum

Such is the disunity that the Scottish party may even declare independence from the UK Conservatives.

If Ruth Davidson weren’t on maternity leave, it’s tempting to believe the former Territorial Army Signaller would by now have commandeered a tank and be rumbling down the M6 with the gun pointed firmly in the direction of the ERG. Davidson’s contempt for Boris Johnson and his cohorts is absolute and withering. Her no-nonsense, pragmatic Conservatism does not allow for the preening self-indulgence of the Tory far-right.

But Davidson is with baby Finn, and this has left something of a hole in the Brexit debate, at both a Scottish and UK level. The leader of Scotland’s Tories broke her silence this week when she took to Twitter to praise Theresa May’s “cojones of steel” and pledge her full support for the PM ahead of the confidence vote, but otherwise her voice has been conspicuously, if understandably, absent.

This doesn’t mean the Scottish Conservatives are dormant, or that Project Ruth is in abeyance. The party at Holyrood remains fully signed up to Davidson’s liberal, One Nation stance. And if there isn’t a tank on its way to London, there are certainly a few rhetorical exocets being fired. “When I look at what’s going on down south, I feel appalled and embarrassed,” one prominent MSP tells me. “I hate the English party. I’m horrified at the support for no deal being expressed by party members. I’ve stopped reading ConservativeHome.”

If this sounds like a temporary huff, the fault lines run deeper. Senior Scottish Tories believe the UK is on a trajectory to crash out of the EU without a deal, and that this could be fatal for the unity of the United Kingdom. I understand that they will back any measure that prevents no deal, and could publicly express support for a second referendum – if May’s deal can’t pass parliament – as early as next week. I’m told both Davidson and her stand-in Jackson Carlaw are signed up to this position. “No deal would be disastrous and jeopardise the union so we will reluctantly have to go back to the country and ask them,” says a source.

The Scottish Tories would potentially favour a two-question referendum, along the lines of 1) Do you want to leave the European Union or remain on existing terms?, and 2) If you want to leave should we do so on the basis of the deal that has been agreed or leave without a deal?

There is tremendous anger that the party at Holyrood has been placed in this position, for a number of reasons. One is that support for a second EU referendum will make it much harder to argue against a second independence referendum in a few years’ time. “We would have to accept if there is a pro-indy majority after the 2021 [Holyrood] election there will be a second referendum,” says a source. On the upside, this would allow Davidson to frame the campaign as a binary choice between more constitutional disruption from the SNP or allowing the new UK settlement to bed down with the Conservatives.

The travails of Brexit have fractured the previous unity of the Scottish party. The group of MPs at Westminster were once seen as being loyal to Davidson, and to owe their seats to her popularity, but some have split away either to speak out against May’s deal or to support the more extreme end of the ERG position. “Project Ruth feels very much like a Holyrood project now,” says an MSP.

This may well have disruptive long-term consequences. Scottish sources say that if the UK party elects an English nationalist leader – ie someone from within the ERG group – it would strain the bonds to breaking point. It would also undermine the 2021 campaign – “if the Westminster Tories are as divisive and newsworthy at that point then it doesn’t matter what we do, we’re fucked,” according to a key member of Team Davidson.

This, in turn, could lead to a formal breach, with the Scottish party choosing to break the link with the UK party and become independent. “An increasing number of people at the top table think we need our independence,” says a senior MSP. The belief is that while Davidson would be unlikely to drive the split, she will leave the party in such a position that her successor will do so.

It remains unclear whether Brexit will destroy the integrity of the UK. But it will be a tremendous irony if one of the first institutions to fall apart under its strain is the Conservative Party itself.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/12/scottish-tories-are-preparing-back-second-brexit-referendum

JRM (and his mob in ERG) is a very entertaining and intelligent chap, but now he's had his say in trying to oust TM
At the very least, he should now shut up and better still, support the gov't in these very trying times for everyone whatever their hue

Nebula May has mixed her own poison, perhaps she should swallow it and move on into more hallowed ground allowing somebody more capable to take her place.

-=-=-=

I have sympathy with Scotland wish for independence, but not sure it is economically sensible at present, but of course, Scotland wants its own laws and to be self-governing and borders to prevent hordes of English immigrating to Edinburgh.

Perhaps. England could be ruled by Ruth Davidson and a small sensible elite in Edinburgh or Glasgow/

The clock is wizzing round, pass it on



Petition

Leave the EU without a deal in March 2019.



https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/229963

You need to give this a break Fred. It is bad for your eyes and clearly not good for the little grey matter you have left. You are becoming delirious. We are leaving. Get used to the idea and all your ranting won't make an iota of difference.

Happy days, Fred is moving to Scotland to fight for a re run up there.

Even happier days Fred , daughter that's in Iceland text me this morning saying she passed her final ACA exams.

Stan , ignored it a couple of days ago but up yours on your opinion of accountants and solicitors :-)

Don't tell me Dill I could have guessed it... your a poxy accountant 🧐

lol :-)

scotland could not remotely be independent
as crude has collapsed, so has much of its economy ..... aberdeen was never a pretty city, but it is now rather a sad place with a number of large hotels going out of business

What do you know Alf you only play golf up there...and your useless at that as well 😆

i agree that my golf is useless, but amazingly i have clients in aberdeen
have never had the courage to take up the open offer to play the trump course ..... i believe it's fantastic, but very long and difficult .... shame that buggies are effectively obligatory, or so i believe

...Ah yes I forgot about your "slippery connections" been to Aberdeen years ago possibly before we stuck oil on a Scotland tour, the granite city. CC lives up there as well I think.

gosh; had forgotten about him and yes he does
polar bears will be strolling the streets in a few weeks

Certainly brass monkey weather on the North coastal east side of the UK.

Max,

Your petition has 69k signatures. The Independent's Final Say petition had over a million signatures when it was handed in at Downing Street last week.

Even Nigel Farage is now saying that there WILL be a second referendum. He's getting the troops to dust off their Sovereign Shopriders and mobilise for action.

:o)

Dilbert,

Congratulations to your daughter. Dunno if I misunderstood, but is she in Iceland for her exams, or was that totally unrelated?

:o)

Dil,

Congratulations to your daughter, she must have an intelligent mother.

Of course her mothers intelligent Fred , she married me for starters.

Hils , I mentioned going to Heathrow the other day and Fred hoped I had a one way ticket to somewhere so explained it was to drop my daughter off as she was visiting Iceland so he was out of luck.

As for a second referendum , I don't think they've got the numbers even for that. She's definitely running the clock down and even after the meaningful vote she's got another 21 days to come up with plan B I think.

This is going to the wire.

Oh I see, Dilbert.

Any chance she could bring back a few packs of their frozen sausage rolls?

:o)