starting this thread, which i hope will be short-lived, to keep the board up to date with latest reports gleaned from the net

thanks mate

NM.

I have sympathy for your positioning.

Pragmatism is often an excuse to excuse the actions you are carrying out.

However, sometimes it is reasonable to appreciate one's own limitations and act accordingly.

What is irritates me is the Gun Ho attitude to intervening in a situation like Libya, without realising the preparation necessary to interfere "effectively" and consider the reconstruction of the "state" organisation necessary for a functioning society in the aftermath.

Shooting off one's mouth and threatening somebody, such as a Psychopath like Gaddafi, before knowing one has, or getting international agreement is "grand standing", which is likely to increase the "bloodshed". Especially, when one cannot match the rhetoric with ones own resources.

I hope the present intervention will be successful, and eventually gainful to the inhabitants of Libya. How long Britain will be involve I dont know. But there is now a legal responsibility to the Libyan people for restoration of the country.

But, it does show the current weaknesses of the United Nations and that a faster mechanism for making decisions in problems like this, the removal of the "vetoes" mechanism and the introduction of a Military Force and also force suitable for intervening in other Humanitarian Catastrophes.

The coalition is now an occupation force, whatever the political rhetoric of some politicians.

.

the truth is islam is the problem

another muslim tribe fighting another

pop over you will see it

Some still wish the return of Hitler, Stalin or Maggie 8-(

Would agree NM that there's usually something in it for the west to get involved but if it helps the locals giving them a fairer crack of the whip then it will have been worthwhile -
Fred Not interested find it hard enough managing my shares:-)

M4,

You completely confused me.

Just caught up.

If you are successful in your management of your shares, can you help me manage mine?

Every time I look at the portfolio and smile, a B. big cloud closes it out.

C'est la vie, or at least we are still alive.

PS.

For Aids

C'est la vie is German.

MN + FRED - so come on then, tell us all what you would have done .... your rhetoric sounds wonderful, but having read it twice, it still reads like twaddle, and my suspicion is that you would have done nothing and wanted nothing done - i.e. they all made their beds, so let them lie in it and bollocks to the lot of them .... life isn't that simple except to simple-minded idealists

.

.

Its French , did you mean c'est la guerre

Aids,

Jesus, got it wrong again.

(I didn't.)

------------
C.

I suggest you read my postings again.

Firstly,

Brief revue of the some recent ME events :

Tunisia seems to be a relatively successful peaceful revolution, but as Bi Ca Essebsi said : We will see to it that this election be the first one in Tunisias history to take place in total credibility and transparency.

Also, I hope that a continuing egalitarian democracy results.
Egypt revolution appears relatively bloodless, up but I await the outcome of the proposed elections later this year.
I also await the withdrawal of the military force from its present governing role and the evaluation of the Judiciary.

I hope that the changes in society evolve quickly and bloodlessly into a democracy relevant to the needs of the majority of Egyptians.

Libya,

I have watched the revolution evolve and surprised that such a headless group of revolutionaries have been successful.
If the information that has been in the media is relatively accurate, I hope the revolutionaries are successful.

I would like outside agencies to help the majority of that country to succeed in removal of Gaddafi and move to democratic form of government representative of the wishes of the majority of that country.

Whether, the New Coalition with its United Nations mandate is the appropriate body, or not, I dont know. However, it does seem to be the only gun in town at the moment.

In that it has the authority of the UN, (the interpretation of the mandate is open to discussion) I accept it and I am glad but not happy for the military actions which are taking place at the moment.
The so called No Fly Zone is going to cost a far high death toll than is realised by many.

My anxieties are the outcomes of the actions and at what are the future costs, financially, politically and on humanitarian bases.
I dont know, it could turn out far better than I think.

Like NM I dislike violence for violences sake and would prefer a stronger UN with powers to intervene at earlier stages in such dilemmas.

Also, I would have prefer less delays before actions, but understand the organisation which was going on behind the scenes.

But, even with the removal of Gaddafi, the formation of a democratic government representative of Libya is going to be tortuous.

Again, why not Syria, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Israel.

--------------

I wish like NM that there were better ways of dealing with international problems and greed and power were not the motivators of actions.

Also, wish the hypocrisy of the "political" spokesmen and women was not so evident.

oh yawn .... try living in the real world nm and not in some airy-fairy make-believe place where all live by confucian teachings .... the lion has never lain down with the lamb nor is ever going to, unless he has already supped well

M

I find your musings quite interesting to read, but I must admit to generally failing to grasp the point you are trying to make. I do not delude myself to believing I am above average intelligence, or even just average (some would no doubt say below) but most of your posts seem an attempt to use bullshit to baffle brains.

As Cynic states you appear to be of the opinion the Libyan rebels (or patriots?) have made their collective beds and should therefore reap the consequences? Incidentally, every situation is different and I don't think useful comparisons can be drawn with China, Iraq, Bosnia, Zimbabwe, Rwanda or anywhere else.

Idealists bemoan kinetic action but have no alternative solution.

.

mnamreh

Are you perchance a/ex academic ?

i have never been an academic or similar, so have never lived in one of their ivory towers, and nor have i ever been in the services of any kind, though often i march to my own band ...... my band tells me loud and clear that MN lives in cloud-cuckoo land where they think his nebulous musings pass for wisdom

NM,

"It appears that not just testosterone is overly affecting the attitudes both you and Cynic are displaying - "

It seems to me they are over compensating for their own realities.

my testosterones are very comfortable thank you fred!