Why are we again at 10.5p bid?

It doesn't add up...

Good Results + Strong buying pre results + Christmas online buying soon = Price drop

Then again some companies that have debt for equity hanging in the balance, poor results and bankruptcy around the corner and they go up!

Why sell now at a loss?

Wont that be a kick in the teeth when we see 13.5p 14p again!

Best of luck all.

nice one Nitefly like your style, wish i,d some cash left to to buy in now paid higher :-(.........still optomistic :-) xfinger best wishes all

I bought in at 13p and then i found out Shares magazine tipped it!
I too though am holding for longer term so MM's playing games, well they won't get my shares anyway at this low price. I'll hold and hold until they reach at least 25p cos they will reach this eventually.
Agree with all comments above about niche market etc.

However, i'm fed up with the gradual falls over the last month or so.

Bye all

Hi all

2 L trades just gone through together they are over 1.5 million shares. These are Late trades but how are we able to find out if they are buys or sells, or does it matter?

I am confused. I use Sharescope realtime and I dont see those 1.5 million trades. I see 73,600 buys and 20,000 sells. Can anyone advise why I dont see these trades please?


Thanks

Javid

Hi Javidshaik

I have seen these on the moneyam trades link, there have also been another ten trades amounting to roughly 1million shares all traded at the mid price so they are falling into the unknown catagory. Am new to share trading so if anybody else has anything further to add it would be appreciated.

Martin

xfinger they are buys back in the blue anyway hasto good :-) douggie

re. money am 2.8 million shares all in 35mins !!!!!! xfinger D.

How come all these mid prices are they buys or sells. Help please. I use level 2 and cannot work it out.

I'm hoping that one or two of the institutions are coming back in. What does everyone else think?

Interesting view dalry. I am new at this and my understanding of the market is , if you want to buy/sell a larger amount than on offer then you get a less favourable price to the best sale or buy price. Am I right in thinking this.

Interesting...

Is it me or does RTD seem to be attracting bigger buys?They have had good newsThey have a niche marketThey have strong buyingThey have said good things are comingSo now its time for the price to return to 13p+ where this stock should definately be atm!Just take a look at Getmapping. They went up 150% over the last few days on absolutely nothing... Where as RTD got great news and fell like a rock... I don't see the logic sometimes... do you? Click here to view RTD Quick Chart

i agree nitefly but its the way of our crap market these days. No logic to it.

Brands licensing wasn't doing well and suddenly jumped from 8.5p to 20p in 1 day cos of contract with asda.

If RTD announce a contract like that, their price should reach well above 20p as they are in a much healthier position.

Scotinvestor,

That would be lovely! And of course a contract could be announced at anytime.

All these buys! There is definitely something cooking, expect an RNS any day now!!!!!!!!!

Not many sells and the one's that have sold are probably T10 traders that have to sell.

Its all a matter of time.

Yeah, you could get out, maybe make a bit elsewhere but then miss the rise here. This would be devastating as we have held for quite a while now.

There are no definates in the stock market! (IMHO)

I'm re-posting this post by Hunt for Value on Ample. It is one of the best posts I've read regarding RTD and for those that may have missed it, here it is:)

The question that this BB asks continually is what is the value of RTD shares? Is it 8p or less or 20p or more? How can the correct value be calculated? The best and most accepted method is to predict the future cash flow of the Company and discount this value back to the current day. If the discounted cash flow is better than the current value, you invest, if they are worse then you sell or do not invest. Trying to spot these cash inconsistencies, especially in high growth stocks such as RTD, is the fun, the buzz, the gamble we all take. So what is the outlook for RTD? One of the simplest methods is to look at EPS to represent cash flow, so long as the EPS figure has not been smoothed or tampered with. As many have pointed out on this BB, the basic EPS of RTD is only 0.16p, so the company looks over valued trading at 68 times earnings. However, to get to the true figure investors will have to look behind the numbers to understand the true cash flow potential in the future. The two areas which causes a great deal of argument is whether exceptional costs and amortisation should be excluded or included. Exceptional costs by their very accounting definition are unusual, one off items that distort the accounts from their true underlying position. For RTD some 700K of exceptional charges was posted to the accounts. We have been told that these costs relate to three items: 1 the cost of terminating two executive directors 2 the cost of a reorganisation in the US 3 cost of migration in Australia What is the effect of terminating two directors does it help future cash flow? Yes it does help future cash flow. In the 2002 set of accounts the two directors cost some 300k in pay and benefits without a bonus therefore, ongoing costs have been saved. The accounts do not disclose the amount paid out, but given that they were on a years notice, I would expect the cost to be at least the 300K cost last year. Therefore, say 350K should be added back to the Basic EPS, to allow for the future saving, so long as they are not replaced. Does the reorganisation help future cash flows. Again yes, actions like this are only taken to save future costs and must be material to the company to be allowed to be an exceptional cost. On a worse case basis the costs would have a payback of one year normally, it is around 9 months therefore say 250k minimum should be added back Finally, the final costs relate to Australia and a migrations/integration cost. Again these costs are targeted at making the business more efficient which again should save costs, and cash, into the future. Therefore it is suggested that all the exceptional costs should be added back to the EPS figure to get a truer underlying prediction of cashflow. Amortisation there is a great deal of confusion as to the treatment of goodwill and the impact it has on the future of the business. Amortisation is just an accounting entry it is meaningless to the future cash flow of the business as it just reflects a past cost that is being depreciated and will not be spent again in the future hence all city analysts remove the figure from their calculation. It is all good and well looking at the money spend in the past but that is an emotional attachment, what is important is what is going to be achieved in the future. If you think about it, the whole point of valuing a company is to work out what it worth now, and this cannot be related to what has been spent in the past the errors of the past cannot be undone. For everyones information, from 2005, when the new international accounting standards are introduced (huge impact for companies), amortisation of goodwill will not be allowed it will be replaced by a straight impairment test, thus companies that are performing well will not have their goodwill amortised. So there will not be any amortisation figures to adjust for in the future. Therefore, to get a truer or normalised earnings figure as quoted by city analysts the basic EPS should be adjusted for both exceptional items and amortisation. Hence, why the Company has published the figure being 0.69p for the first six months of the year. Okay so how reliable is the EPS figure in the accounts of RTD what scope is there for adjustments. Looking at the balance sheet, the company has few assets to manipulate most being intangible assets and debtors and creditors. Auditors are very sharp on "manipulation" of these items. The Company does not have large fixed assets, which are normally the areas where manipulation can occur, and it does not seem to capitalise development work again an area of potential for adjusting the p&l. Therefore, the EPS figure would give a fairly true reflection as to current cash flow. This assessment is further backed up by looking at the consolidated cash flow statement with the trading operations generating 3.3m excluding exceptionals - in cash before working capital adjustments which would be of a one off nature (2m positive) and tax and interest and tangible investments. So what is the EPS going to be in the full year? The Board has given some very careful wording that the second half will be less than the first half, due to the one offs but even if the second half is down by 10% (300K) the EPS will be approximately 1.2p for the full year (also cash per share of 1.2p). At this level the company on a forward multiple of only 8/9 not the 60 times that have been bounced around this BB. What about future growth? All on this BB agree that the company appears to be in a strong, growing market revenues are up 11% already so lets say they fall to 7.5% growth, given the wording on operational capacity in the CEO statement, most of this would fall to the bottom line giving a faster growth in EPS. For every 1.5m in additional revenue some 0.1p would add to EPS, if 50% falls to the bottom line before tax. If this 5% growth is projected out for say 15 years, and discounted at say 10% (we would all like to get a 10% return on our money) then the value of the shares would be around 20p each Can this value be justified by looking at other companies? RTD is pretty unique, however, the most comparable companies around are Datacash in the UK (AIM: DATA) and Cybersource (Nasdaq: CYBS). Take Datacash its current market value is some 24m on turnover of 4m for 2003, and a small operating profit. Therefore it is trading at 6 times revenue or 50 times operating profit! RTD on the same multiples would be worth 180M (60 p per share) plus, and RTD is a more robust and balanced company. Take Cybersource it has small turnover ($5- $6m per quarter) and is loss making its market value is US$180m and has a real problem history. If you strip out its cash pile (which is dwindling) then it has an enterprise value of $130m or 80m. Again on the same multiples, RTD would be worth 40p + per share. Either RTD is massively under valued or the other two are over valued you choose? How does RTDs value compare against other PE ratios for technology companies? Looking in the FT, the average is around 30 but due to some high one offs if you look at individual companies stripping out the large ones (FTSE100), then the average is around 16 18 times. This would give RTD a price of 23 26 p now. There are other examples to justify a higher price, all leading to the same conclusion recent tech company sales at a multiple of revenue, etc Therefore, on the basis of the above RTD looks a screaming buy so why is it not still powering ahead? RTD has a chequered history, it came to market in the boom rose massively and has been falling since. PJ Birks well written note demonstrated the history well, the $64,000 question to be answered is Is the past behind them? Some are betting it is some are betting it is not. The share price has excellent fundamentals indicating a price of 20p plus in the short term, hence the rampers are right, but the reality is the share price is held back by reputation, the doom-mongers are right and the share price is down at a low 8 times multiple 10p. On balance some where inthe middle is going to be right, so long as the company does not make any more gaffs. For all those who are wondering, yes I am now a holder of RTD shares I have bought in during the last year and I am sitting on a nice profit. The amount I hold will not make me rich, but if I am lucky will allow me to take some profit and buy a decent holiday for my family. Enjoy RTD, it is fun to try to predict what will happen next it is a gamble, an interesting challenge and an opportunity. I have not bet my shirt, no one should ever do that, and I think I will at least get my money back if it goes really wrong, but momentum should take the company higher. Please feel free to post this note onto other BB, which I do not subscribe to. Please do not slander me for giving my views, and most of all. DYORClick here to view RTD Quick Chart

this is what i enjoy about reading up stuff on this website, a full and frank discussion from real people.
well nitefly, my wish is for you to make as much profit as you can and take your family on a long holiday!
i do own shares too but was sxxxxxenough not to sell, i'm just trying to make up for money i have lost.

Some good buys today (the bigger ? trades were buys) I think we'll tick up again tomorrow.

Onwards and Upwards!

Is it now that we will see a rise back to 13p+? Prepare to be transported to the land of profit... Only time will tell. Lets hope the saying "Patience Pays" really is true? Best of luck to you all!Click here to view RTD Quick Chart