This board has been a little to quiet for while.

Is it time that Bush and Blair who is a close friend and confidant of Bush were tried for War Crimes?

Do you think the use by the American Administrations of renditions are War Crimes and committed with full knowledge of American and British leaders ie. Blair and Bush and they are ultimately responsible?

Also in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of Iraq are should their action seen to be as the provocation for the rising toll of British, American and Iraqi deaths.

As a result of the military intervention in Iraq do you think you are safer in Britain to-day?

Do you think one should expect government leaders and ministers who have been responsible for massive foreseeable casualties should visit the hospitals to meet the casualties they have produced directly or indirectly by their actions?

COMMENTARY:
The Iraqi Flim-Flam: Bush-Blair Lies Confirmed Again
Was this obscene war based on lies? Yes.
by CHRIS FLOYD
Carne Ross, Britain's key negotiator at the UN, said that during his posting to the UN, "at no time did HMG [Her Majesty's Government] assess that Iraq's WMD (or any other capability) posed a threat to the UK or its interests."Diplomat's suppressed document lays bare the lies behind Iraq war (The Independent, via rebellenation). Excerpts:
The Government's case for going to war in Iraq has been torn apart by the publication of previously suppressed evidence that Tony Blair lied over Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. A devastating attack on Mr Blair's justification for military action by Carne Ross, Britain's key negotiator at the UN, has been kept under wraps until now because he was threatened with being charged with breaching the Official Secrets Act.
In the testimony revealed today Mr Ross, 40, who helped negotiate several UN security resolutions on Iraq, makes it clear that Mr Blair must have known Saddam Hussein possessed no weapons of mass destruction. He said that during his posting to the UN, "at no time did HMG [Her Majesty's Government] assess that Iraq's WMD (or any other capability) posed a threat to the UK or its interests."

Mr Ross revealed it was a commonly held view among British officials dealing with Iraq that any threat by Saddam Hussein had been "effectively contained".

He also reveals that British officials warned US diplomats that bringing down the Iraqi dictator would lead to the chaos the world has since witnessed. "I remember on several occasions the UK team stating this view in terms during our discussions with the US (who agreed)," he said. "At the same time, we would frequently argue when the US raised the subject, that 'regime change' was inadvisable, primarily on the grounds that Iraq would collapse into chaos."

... Mr Ross delivered the evidence to the Butler inquiry which investigated intelligence blunders in the run-up to the conflict. It shows Mr Ross told the inquiry, chaired by Lord Butler, "there was no intelligence evidence of significant holdings of CW [chemical warfare], BW [biological warfare] or nuclear material" held by the Iraqi dictator before the invasion. "There was, moreover, no intelligence or assessment during my time in the job that Iraq had any intention to launch an attack against its neighbours or the UK or the US," he added.

Mr Ross's evidence directly challenges the assertions by the Prime Minster that the war was legally justified because Saddam possessed WMDs which could be "activated" within 45 minutes and posed a threat to British interests. These claims were also made in two dossiers, subsequently discredited, in spite of the advice by Mr Ross.

...Mr Ross says he questioned colleagues at the Foreign Office and the Ministry of Defence working on Iraq and none said that any new evidence had emerged to change their assessment. "What had changed was the Government's determination to present available evidence in a different light," he added.

Mr Ross said in late 2002 that he "discussed this at some length with David Kelly", the weapons expert who a year later committed suicide when he was named as the source of a BBC report saying Downing Street had "sexed up" the WMD claims in a dossier. The Butler inquiry cleared Mr Blair and Downing Street of "sexing up" the dossier, but the publication of the Carne Ross evidence will cast fresh doubts on its findings.

Mr Ross, 40, was a highly rated diplomat but he resigned because of his misgivings about the legality of the war. He still fears the threat of action under the Official Secrets Act.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chris Floyd is an American journalist. His work has appeared in print and online in venues all over the world, including the Nation, CounterPunch, Columbia Journalism Review, the Christian Science Monitor, Il Manifesto, the Moscow Times and many others. He is the author of Empire Burlesque: High Crimes and Low Comedy in the Bush Imperium, and is co-founder and editor of the "Empire Burlesque" political blog. He can be reached at cfloyd72@gmail.com.

Just a question about racism.

I always understood that white Aryans were a race, as were Negroids, as were Orientals etc. Now racismseems to be applied to French, British, Germans, Romanians etc. Surely there is no raceof Lithuanians? Or Romanians? Or Kenyans? Or Muslims???

Can anyone enlighten me?

I understand Tony Blair is enjoying the hospitality of Baghdad today travelling in an open top stretched limo through the streets meeting his adoring fans cheering him along the way rather a special moment for him I guess.

Racism is now a word applied to shut people up and try and ridicule them when they ask difficult questions about differences between cultures. It is now simply the rallying call of a discredited idea that all people are the same, regardless of beleif system.
It is increasingly obvious that varying religions / nationalities hold loyalty to fellow men / national law / religion / ideals in differing orders and that these cannot be reconciled by blandishments to treat everyone in exactly the same way.
To ask basic questions that go to the very root of problems of different races living together in harmony raises evidence of peoples differences, and the liberal regime of our country cannot provide an answer that effectively covers the points raised. Their response, therefore, is to try and discredit the question, and the questioner with a word that has become used as both an insult and implies bigotry.
For me, racism simply means accepting that races are different. Not biologically, but idealogically.
So to ask the question of a jew, "If infant circumcision were outlawed, would you still practise it?" is not racist. Neither is asking a Muslim "If wearing veils in public were banned, would you still practise it?". It is an attempt to show where peoples loyalties lie.
My belief is that the state and the welfare of the citizens transcends religious belief and ideology. I think most people agree with that, and that if there were any collision between the 2 structures, the state should override.
Personally, I do not give a damn whether people cut bits off their kids, or wear a veil, a mask or a basket of fruit over their faces. But when it causes problems for societies majority, it should be cast aside.
That attitude makes me be labelled racist. But that only means I accept there are differences, so it is a badge I will wear happily, for to not accept that there are differences is to shuffle the deckchairs as the Titanic sinks. It is foolish and is simply allowing our nation to cascade into greater problems simply to try and defend your own convictions.
Thats my take on racism, anyway. take it or leave it.
Though it has little to do with this thread.
Alan

I hear that Blair is in the Green Zone. Is it possible to arrange that he stays there indefinitely!

Just finished reading the Sunday papers. Wondering if Blair is hiding in the Green Zone from Levy, or the Police or the British Press.

It reminds me of that sixties tv programme Fred No hiding Place..!

8-) GOOD

hewittalan6,

Looking and observing the degree, or lack of, of mixed marriages give a good indication of how well, willing and able different races, religions and classes/casts can live with one another harmoniously.

Fred,

Blairs's repeated perfect timing of absence in time of troubles is uncanny. But he is still jsut a muppet and a puppet. As in tales oft told, one has to look and speculate much deeper and broader to guess who were and are selling the King his invisible new cloth and ran off with all the money ... some will probably remain anonymous for a long time. Getting an honour, a title or a position is just only the icing on the cake, so where and how big is the hidden cake ???

I wish Blair had, duringhis 3 terms in office, concentrating all his cunnings, time and energies on only domestic issue and improvements.

I see Brown and Cameron are groomed to be new Blair.

ADX,

I am married to someone of a different nationality. My wife believes in a God and adheres to her faith, while I am an atheist. I am told, by wife, that we have a stable and happy marriage. I wouldn't dare to disbelieve her.

I use to say that "anybody can say what they want to me, whether I agree with them or not is irrelevant, but I will object if they eat off my plate or pay out of my pocket."


I think that there are an important differences between Blair, Cameron and Brown.


The most important for me is that Blair and Brown are political spivs, while I think Brown still has integrity.

Why do politicians in trouble always run away and start meddling in foreign affairs which are of no benefits, only more risks and danger which they don't have to bear, to the ordinary folks?

PM calls for alliance over Iran

'Moderate Muslim states must form an "alliance of moderation" to counter Iran and challenge its influence, UK prime minister Tony Blair has urged.
...'

Just come back and millions of us will tell him the thousands of domestic challenges left unchallenges by successvie politicians ever eager to pass them on ...

Oh, what if the calls are reversed? ie.
'Moderate western states must form an "alliance of moderation" to counter Britain and challenge its influence, a Muslim leader, who is currently touring Europe has urged.'


:-(((

if blair ever goes to prison, he will get compensation of 6mil for being bullied..

apparently thats what prisoners get now!!!..

crime does pay..

so Blair has a big incentive

I not sure it would be advantageous to have the the puppet at home, he has cause so much chaos internationally that by now with more time at home Britain would have been in absolute chaos by now.

Fred, not sure. Blair would have done some good and make some meanful, more lasting progress domestically if he wasn't so vain and led-by-the-nose in those foreign entanglements. Not an isolationist but there are so MUCH need to be done here. In a way, it gives a good insight to the REAL interests, loyalties and priorities of political lobbists, from within and without the labour party, the parliament and UK.

Not you was it fred?


BIRMINGHAM, England - Eight terror suspects accused of planning a kidnapping were arrested in pre-dawn raids Wednesday, police said.


Police would not comment on Sky News TV reports that part of the plan was to behead a hostage and post the act on the Internet, and neither the Home Office nor West Midlands police could not confirm details of the alleged plot.

Officers raided several homes beginning at 4 a.m. in a predominantly Pakistani neighborhood in the city in central England.

To late, I moved from there a few years ago!!

But I would prefer Blair to be exposed as a corrupt immoral charlatan and have to live with that as his history, than to be kidnapped and probably killed.

But I am sure he will still believe he is winning the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Do not blame you..

They, the enemy are doing the job for us..........
The Real 2006
'Iraq Body Count'

Iraqi civilians killed last year by ISLAMIC Terrorists
16,791

Iraqi civilians killed collaterally in incidents involving Americans
(and Islamic Terrorists)
215*

Iraqis aren't
dying from war.
They are being murdered by
Islamic terrorists.

The sooner all politicians,lawyers and god botherers are rounded up, put in a field and thrashed to within an inch of their lives , before being placed in sealed tanks and fired into the sun- the better society will be.
Also given the vast reduction in the production of CO2,CO,NO2, that their demise would bring through not breathing or driving cars, inciteing hatred/mistrust , the more chance the rest of us will have to enjoy this planet without glowbal warming/dimming.
I live in hope for a society run by people who actually give a rats arse about their fellow man.
Still having moved near Manchester,won't be long before I can now rent out the house, prostitute the wife, sell the kids to medical science and put it all on BLACK for one spin of the wheel. Social experiment , my arse.
:-)

Whats the sun ever done to upset you??? (except you never see it in Manchester)

Did you see that program by Thoueaux whatever he is called about gambling in Las vagas, they couldn't care less about how much punters were addicted.