I felt a thread should be started on the role of Piers Morgan in the 'picture allegations' which are being bandied around the world.
Whether or not these pictures are real, I would like to see this man hauled across the coals!! I feel very strongly that the position he has taken has put the life of british soldiers and foreigners (especially those working in arab countries)in jeopardy.
As far as I am concerned, he is just a jumped up gossip columnist who is out to make as much money as possible with little regard to the actual consequences.
In my opinion, the british government were wrong to participate in this war, but it does not change the fact the Mr Morgan has been , and will be, a large contributer to further british, australian, new zealand, south african and other westerners deaths in arab countries, with his ill thought out publishing of these pictures.
I also feel that this will just fuel the terrorist cause.
If I had to describe Mr Morgan in 2 words, they would be 'dangerous' and 'greedy'..

EDIT....and now unemployed!!!!

Those photographs are a load of bull. There is no way on earth that they were taken anywhere near an operation. They are perfectly exposed, clearly focused, and well framed. The 'soldiers' are clean, no tat's, no tan, no muscle tone, no grime. It takes about 3.1 nanoseconds to draw that conclusion. Bad things have happened for sure, but nothing in comparison to what was happening under SH.

I'm no war apologist - without the sanction of the UN the war is illegal and should not have taken place. The longer it goes on in current form the more likely we are to see regime change at home and in the U.S.

Whatever the underlying political motive for the war, and whatever your views on those motives, I do hope that you see dead british soldiers and Iraqis as a bad thing. And that you can see the link between those photo's and further conflict. And that by extension publishing the photos was stupid.

Ho hum.

Yours, Ghengis Khan.

P.S. - Did you hear the one about George Bush and Tie Rack ?

PPS: We lived in a bi polar world for 50 years, and now we are being driven back by religeous extremists. I am very glad that I do not have to live in the States.

And another thing while my blood is up.... Did anyone see the free financial makoever article in the weekend FT - a couple with combined earnings power of 250,000, still claiming 16,000 a year child benefit. Doesn't it make you proud to live in the land of the free.


got that off my chest.

A bit.

Take deep breaths.

Thanks Jules,

I am enjoying to-day. The majority of my shares are blue. (Thank anybodies god for me.) And I have place to rant and rave without be told "DAD!!!!!!)

Personally, I think it would be daft to turn ones back on technical advances or any of any advances, which are useful or may have useful returns.

But that is not the same as taking advantage oneself limitlessly at the disadvantage of those you are screwing, which seems to be the position you are advocating.

It seems the crude American policy of today, unfortunately followed by the British government is to treat the resources of other countries as their own.

The problem is that at the end of the day the have nots get p****d off with not having and start becoming awkward. This was one of the social remnants of the Thatcher period and perceived policy. This is what under lie the eventual political changes and the gaining of controls of extremists who go to war or use the methods they find appropriate ie, terrorism.

The attitude of many Americans and British is still of patronising arrogance to the Arabs, and other less organise societies.

Very much like the Master to Slave or landowner to servant of old.

The oil or other resources belong to the country of its origins until sold on the free market to other purchase or countries and should be marketed for the proportional advantage of that country.

I personally hope that Iraq develops a democratic secular government, but I fear as a result of the intervention, what will be developed are religious thiefdoms, privately funded and supported by American gangsters, milking the resources with little or no respect for the people of that country or individual freedom within that country. This is partially what is provoking the present conflicts. The only problem is that the more ignorant or lesser mortals will not benefit from the actions and are at the moment are suffering. (I think they are being misled or utilised by their leaders. (The same applies to many Americans and British, although there seems to be more enlightment.)

I think the UN should call for a withdrawal of the Coalition Forces within a 2 year period and the removal all American and British Bases from Iraq and other Middle East Countries. That this should be done under the authority of the UN but as a deterrent for future insurgencies of this type at the expense of the countries initially taking part in the Coalitions action.

P. Morgan and his "weapon of media deception" ain't the problem ... in my opinion, we should see EVERYTHING, unsanitised, bloody and as gory as hell ... blood, brains and balls!

What Morgan and his "peers" dish up is far worse than Jules could ever imagine. We're being fed a veneer of reality, a superficiality, that, were banks, traders, the market, to dish up, there would be an outcry so huge, it would bring the country to a stand still.

A photo (whether a re-enactment or the real deal) is just that - only a photo - it's a poor reflection of the real EVENT ... before, during and after.

What we need people like Jules to do (sorry Jules) is to inform oneself - think about the EVENT, not it's recorded documentary merit, or whether it should be published in a paper or not. Break free of the herd (Soham springs to mind and the appalling vilification of that poor woman - perhaps we should shoot her in the back of the head and satisfy the herd's lust for retribution). Folks really seem incapable of rational thought of late - we've regressed back to SALEM!

If we want to put a bullet in the back of her head ... ok, so be it, say so ... but don't be duplicitous about it ... simply put ... be nice or be 'orrid ... but don't be self-righteous, all dressed up as moral superiority.

We're outraged that a paper wants to show some piccies of abuse ... someone being pissed on ... hold on ... what about all the dead women and children? Who is watching Afghanistan? Kosovo? Serbia? Remember Kenya - where British troops were directly responsible for the genocide and torture of 10's of thousands of men, women and children, some of whose heads were bashed-in under boot in front of the mothers to coerce infomation out of them? Where's the outcry - there weren't any cameras to document this event? But this doesn't negate the EVENT itself. Unfortnately, Morgan wasn't there either, or we'd being paying compensation and reparations right about now.

Who allows this - a complacent, uninformed, silent lazy majority who abrogate their responsiblity to a handful of wannabe "messiahs" / sociopaths - Bushy Bliar, the Straw village idiot, and one man and his dog, et al.

The minute a soldier puts on a uniform, by definition, he's the walking dead. And we decide "democratically" whether we're going to use him/her as a killing resource. U cannot have it both ways ... as an ex-soldier, I always understood this when I wrote my "last letter" to be posted, were I to fall in the course of my "duty" to country! A country that won all it's battles, but lost the war - viva Mandela, and rightly so!

And yes, I've witnessed atrocities that will make one's toes curl ... but so few "serve" today ... their battlefield is the markets. So few have an insight into what it's like to wear the uniform and how fast things go awry. WE're all suffering from "future shock" ... 3 steps removed from reality.

My view is that ANY soldier guilty of an atrocity should be court-martialled and shot at the stake and buried head first. And any politician that is complicit in the "spirit" of the offence ... ditto ... remember the policy of "SHOCK and AWE"? Now describe the "corporate culture" behind this statement and the shared vision that engenders. Write the story. There's no surprise ending.

These politico-wimps have no honour or sense of responsibility ... but will prosecute soldiers at a whim. The worst that happens to the leadership and these sociopathic MP's is they resign, unscathed and take up a post in some blue-chip company Board - protected by the market.

Jules wants to shoot the messenger ... I say ... leave Morgan alone .. he ain't the problem - we are - let's kick those bully boys in parliament out and take back our civil power. And yes, it will be hard to manage ourselves once again, opposed to being managed. But, what are U (plural, ablative tense) afraid of? Reality? No apoligies for the rant ... awaken within!

Why would you bury them head first ?

to leave somewhere to park his bike

Good ole Piers, you gotta love him :-))

too awful to even discuss now, the Tower awaits

With this messenger I am not unhappy how one deals with him. But don't forget the message or that until now the content was not "known" or mentioned by this goverment!!

I wonder if Piers had a son or relation out their, not that they wanted to be or agreed with what was going on. but were sent by the government. If he had I feel sure he would have given a bit more thought to printing them photo's It dosent matter if they are fake or true, we all know about backlash, May God look after any of out lads, that get caught. To me P M and his crappy paper wants, well I cant think of anything bad enough to do with them. I will not be getting his paper ever again, (not that I ever bought it ) mojo

mojo
The truth is in what you have said. People like PM are responsible for backlash. God help the family of the American who was beheaded!

It's such an intolerable situation ... it's kinda true what Osama d***head had to say, when he defined terrorism ... terrorism is a balance of terror ... U bomb us, we bomb U, ad infinitum ... U abuse detainees, we behead (innocent, brave) young americans .

Interestlingly, though understandable, the media hasn't fully quoted these hooded criminals ... here's a piece of the translation of the video not reported on:

"As for you, mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the American administration to exchange this prisoner for some prisoners in Abu Ghraib, but they refused. We tell you that the honour of Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and other (prisons) are more noble than blood and lives. And you will only get shroud after shroud and coffin after coffin slaughtered in this manner.

Crisis diplomacy seems dead and buried ... were it my son ... I'd have emptied all the prisons! Tough call! Yet, having said that ... this brave young lad died on Friday ... and the americans released 15 Abu Grahib prisoners on sunday ... kept quiet all week, until Wednesday. Is this a deal that went wrong? Remember the other american who "escaped" last week from these captives? Interestingly, again, a few days later the americans withdraw from Faluja ... another deal?

May this brave young man's parents find peace! And may these hooded criminals also find themselves buried head first!

T was talkong to a son of a relative who fought in Iraq, and he said that they were often hampered by , literally hundreds of media people , desperate for the sight of blood, how come these carnage prostitutes are allowed in a war zone?

i hope someone gets legal advise
like this murder of the innocent american it has been associated with pic taken then blown out over the world of abuse in prisons in iraq
the press have to take some stick for this murder
abusing the prisoners was well out of order and thoses ppl will pay(belive me)

but what is the real abuse cutting someones head of or slicing it of bit by bit with a knife

did not see any brits or yanks doing this did we hmmmmmmmm

how can you be nice to an ememy who would rather cut your head of for humiliating him

sarcasim would stop dead in the west if we adopted there rules imho of course

i belive in freedom of speech(western culture not eastern or middle east)
but i also belive in the right of duty to ones country and putting the lives of our service ppl in more danger by publishing dubious pictures(imho) was very silly indeed(imho)
if as in the americans beheading the murder is put down to these pictures then as i said in the begining (imho) ppl should be made to pay and i hope ppl look at the legal system to make them pay for there fool hardiness of putting our boys in even more danger just to make money (imho)

I cant understand how or why the media wont be allowed to show photo's or give any news of Maxine Carr. (Against the national interest so we are told ) Not that I care if they put her on the next rocket to Mars And yet they were allowed by our government to print papers for days with them photo's of abuse that were totaly false, shouldnt someone be jailed for fraud or something. and when things go wrong in a company the first head to go should be the BOSS. Important earthshattering news like that should be checked out and double checked out and a lot of thought put into it befor it is printed . So Ops sorry we got it wrong isnt any excuse. It didnt work for Carr when she said I didnt know, Their is something I am am not getting here, or is our mr P Morgan going to get a way with the lot of it after taking all the extra money he made from the papers, well he will just take a good long holiday some place nice and warm, and come back refreshed

Nice little piece on Radio 4 this morning suggesting that Morgan may be held responsible and that Fidelity, who like the old corporate governance thing, may just push for his resignation. (Have resisted the bad taste pun)

The jumped up little gossip queen resigned... fabulous. Can we now try him for manslaughter, and then all those other twats that started this war?????????

jules,how are you getting on with this thread??%wise
as for maxine carr,,,not as daft as she makes out,,,or is she?

Shoot him.

Regards

Nice sub- header in the Torygraph-"End of the Piers Show"

I dont suppose that the danger to American and British Troops in Iraq is in any way the result of the misdirected or indisciplined actions of the leaders and some of the soldiers on the ground.

Some of these actions were seen on ITV and BBC news programmes well in advance of PM. Similar brutalities were shown of the actions of Americans in Afghanistan and Guantanamo.

IMO These actions reflect the value systems of some of the American hierarchy being passed down to those on the ground, that is, a greater valuation of our boys compared with a son or daughter of an Arab. (The same type of disregard of other human beings took place in some of the actions by British Troops a few years ago in Northern Ireland.)

I can excuse violent, ugly inhumane actions in the fury of battle, although I wish it could be different, but not when these actions are carried out in a relatively safe situation with unarmed prisoners.

I certainly dont advocate the actions of the Iraqis slitting the throat of the American. I found it appalling. But likewise I found it appalling when we were bombarding the Iraq targets from 5miles up in the air with disregard for civilian population.

If Blair, Bush, and Rumsfeld etc. had visited not only the troops but also the hospitals and seen the children and other non-combatants, dismembered or mutilated I think they may be more circumspect about their actions.

I am not a pacifist, but I do think the Iraq Fiasco was unnecessary and the Sadam Problem could have been resolved in a different way. Again, I do expect that the decencies of a relatively civilised societies like Britain, France and in general, the West, should be observed by their troops if we are occupying another peoples country.


As far as the Mirror and PM is concerned I think it is wrong to have printed false evidence knowingly. Similarly for Blair and WMDs. Both should fall apologise and fall on their swords, hopefully blunt ones, in PMs case, to the readers and if the bases behind the allegations are not true, to the troops.

In Blairs case, the apologies should be to the British people, United Nations and Europe. Until the United Nations is involved in supervisory role, I can see the Iraq problem and World Instability increasing. This is reflected by the oil prices and world markets at the present time.