Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

I had a neighbour whose kid was a bloody nuisance for 2-3 years. I asked his parents to stop him firing his catapult at my glass house. I warned him time and time again.

I was fed up. The police didn't want to know,

Finally, I went round one night, set fire to their house and as they came running out broke their legs of the kids and one parent with my baseball bat.

Put a stop to that.

Only problem is that I find difficulty in sleeping at night because they threatened to kill me.


Its OK because my kids are now grown up and they also have catapults and baseball bats.

Chocolat, I suggest you read the Irish history of the Catholics rights over the last 50 years. This may bring a different opinion of the craziness in NI.

Fred, I'm sorry to be so direct, but your invented analogy is nothing short of pathetic. And I'm thoroughly familiar with the history of Ireland and its relationship with Britain with all the sadness it entails. But none of this justified the acts of the Provisional IRA in the late 20th century.

All their leaders wanted was political power -- and now they've got it. And what a price they paid with other people's lives to get it.

Oops, Fred, I nearly overlooked your last unintentional truism.

"I think America is forgetting, that at the end, economies win wars not armaments."

Which is precisely how Ronald Reagan won the Cold War. He out-spent the Soviets in strategic armaments. The whole Star Wars thing was the most magnificent scam in history. The USSR folded its hand when Gorbachev saw the game was unwinnable and negotiated rapprochement with the West with Margaret Thatcher. Gorbachev is one of my heroes, a courageous man who saw the future, with all its uncertainties, and embraced it.

MM, I am not advocating violence as a method for change. But go back to the employment "rules", voting "rules" an the political bias against the Catholics in the 50s and 60s in NI, one can understand the IRA rising to "power" due to this frustation.

The analogy is representative of the disproportionate force that Israel is using. In my mind similar to what was used in the South of France by the Nazies at during the end of WW2. ie. disproportionate force and used indiscriminately against the civilian population.

It will not solve the problems. Improving the economy might.

Your opinion of Regan and Thatcher is expected. Surprised a little that you have a similar opinion of Gorbachev. But again this was again a missed chance by the "West" and Thatcher and Regan, gloated and saw it as an oportunity to plunder the "USSR".

I think Economically we are seeing Russia's revenge with gas. I await more unification of the Middle Eastern countries and the turning of the oil screws.

Fred,

Russia's a busted flush and, imo, whilst nobody can see it just now as everybody's got him down as sfb, in the years to come I think that Dubbya might well be looked back upon as having done the best possible thing for the Middle East (if not the rest of the world) by invading Iraq.

MM, Have a look at this site.

During my wanderings I visited this village. It summates the futility of war.

http://www.oradour.info/images/catalog1.htm

The Germans were offering the same reasons as Israel is giving today.

" O will they never learn"

Didn't Israel withdraw from Gaza a few years back, after promises that the rocket attacks would stop? Looks like they got done over.

Gausie, Check how many United Nations' Mandates have be ignored by Israel over the last 40years. America and Britain have colluded with these actions.

The mass destruction of a country's infrastructure and "mass murder" of children, and civilians is unjustifiable.

If you have a loaded gun and pull the trigger you are responsible for the result of that
action.

Edited after SKinny.

Fred do you mean concurred?

Fred,

Please don't be offended, but I've got to ask. Do you post as maestro on the freeview by any chance?

:o)

Fred

Please tell me what you think Israel should do to protect itself against any country or organization that has in its 'manifesto' the destruction of the state of Israel?

I would encourage anyone interested in this to have a read at the very thorough Wikipedia entry on 'Gaza'

I also found a very clear article on the current situation, which was written by Martin Kramer at http://sandbox.blog-city.com/israels_gaza_strategy.htm

And of course, since Hamas are in power somewhat illegally, then any negotiations with them also have an undesired effect of legitimising Hamas.

Importantly, one of Israel's prime objectives is to de-legitimise Hamas and get rid of them. Kramer's article does a good job of explaining as to why this is the case.

Fred (or anyone else), my question was: "Didn't Israel withdraw from Gaza a few years back, after promises that the rocket attacks would stop? Looks like they got done over."

If that's true then Hamas haven't kept up the payments and it seems repossesion is in order.

Skinny, Meant colluded. Have edited.

Hilary, No I am not Maestro. But the level of you argument on other threads suggest that you remain Hilary.

Stable and Exec have a look for a starting point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

and see the mandates which have been ignored by Israel.

That underlies much of the discord in the Middle East plus the imperialistic attitude of America and the West to a lesser degree.

Gausie
Hamas was a democratically elected government which did not suit America or Israel.
The economy of Gaza has been strangled by Israel and USA.

Even if you don't agree with the positioning of Hamas, you have to recognise and negociate with them. They are representative of a large portion of Gaza.


The initial government of Israel was made up of "terrorists".

Fred
as expected u do not answer the question, and revert to old chestnut about un resolutions, which we have over the years recognised that they have no importance to those of many nations who wish to ignore them, not just Israel.
I want to know how You would deal with the situation that Israel is in. If Hamas has no intention of recognising Israel, how can Israel recognise and negotiate with Hamas?.

No nation will ever stand idly by and allow an illegal organisation to daily fire rockets at it's population. Hamas are indiscriminate in their targetting and care little for civilian casualties on the Israeli side of the border.

Whilst it may be that Israel's response is heavy handed, the targets they are after were sited by Hamas in densely populated areas, which means they are either ridiculously callous or naive to the absurd degree if they thought that the Israelis would not go after the firing platforms irrespective of location.

Hamas could stop firing the rockets, but they seem hellbent on escalating the conflict, presumably in the hope that others will be drawn in, are they acting as puppets for Iran?

Stable, by sitting at a table and talking with (not to) the leaders of Hamas. Both sides of the table compromising for the benefit of the people bototh groups they are supposed to represent.

This is preferable to sticking to the bigoted ideology, which is prevalent at the moment. Also recognising "bullying tactics" used by Israel and America are not sustainable. This is the recognised opinion of the majority of the world opinion. Hence the general world outcry.

It would also need aid to enable the Palestinians to have an economically viable, independant state. This would have to be supervised by the UN.

That would mean stopping the abuse of the UN by members of the Security Council by its members.

There has to be reform of the UN. to give it authority,

Wildrover, Let us have a clean fight. Palestinians can use swords while Israel can use guns.

I think part of what Hamas is up to, is bringing attention to the world to it broken economy, due to strangulation by Israel and also bringing attention to the mandates which Israel continually ignores.

It is difficult to condone the Palestinian rockets, but it is easy to understand why the resort to them.

Iran, What a shame America couldn't impose a "democratic" government there.

"It is difficult to condone the Palestinian rockets, but it is easy to understand why the resort to them."

Fred - I dont think you've yet made a single convincing argument - and this one was probably the worst of them all.

ps - did you wish to declare an interest?