Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

You mean the Labour party of principle and integrity, M? Long, long gone.

"I once voted for". Is that as in voted ONLY once for?

Copied.

What I would like to know is, the amount of money which Israeli groups are giving to the various political parties, and what they are expecting to get in return?

Perhaps, a light slap on the wrists.

Unfortunately, Israeli lobbying is embraced by all three major parties.

What does Israel get from it?

What for, do they consider different allegiances when legislation?

I am referring to the Cons. Labour and Liberal. Friends of Israel.

wrong thread.

Friday, March 19

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The Dark Face of Jewish Nationalism
9/11 - The US Military Knows Israel Did It
Audio interview below
By Dr Alan Sabrosky



March 19, 2010 "Redress" - -Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu once remarked to a Likud gathering that "Israel is not like other countries". Oddly enough for him, that time he was telling the truth, and nowhere is that more evident than with Jewish nationalism, whether or not one pins the "Zionist" label on it.

Nationalism in most countries and cultures can have both positive and negative aspects, unifying a people and sometimes leading them against their neighbours. Extremism can emerge, and often has, at least in part in almost every nationalist/independence movement I can recall (e.g. The French nationalist movement had The Terror, Kenya's had the Mau Mau, etc.).



But whereas extremism in other nationalist movements is an aberration, extremism in Jewish nationalism is the norm, pitting Zionist Jews (secular or observant) against the goyim (everyone else), who are either possible predator or certain prey, if not both sequentially. This does not mean that all Jews or all Israelis feel and act this way, by any means. But it does mean that Israel today is what it cannot avoid being, and what it would be under any electable government (a point I'll develop in another article).



The differences between Jewish nationalism (Zionism) and that of other countries and cultures here I think are fourfold:
1. Zionism is a real witches' brew of xenophobia, racism, ultra-nationalism and militarism that places it way outside of a "mere" nationalist context for example, when I was in Ireland (both parts) I saw no indication whatsoever that the Provisional Irish Republican Army or anyone else pressing for a united Ireland had a shred of design on shoving Protestants into camps or out of the country, although there may well have been a handful who thought that way and goes far beyond the misery for others professed by the Nazis;




2. Zionism undermines civic loyalty among its adherents in other countries in a way that other nationalist movements (and even ultra-nationalist movements like Nazism) did not e.g. A large majority of American Jews, including those who are not openly dual citizens, espouse a form of political bigamy called "dual loyalty" (to Israel and the US) that is every bit as dishonest as marital bigamy, attempts to finesse the precedence they give to Israel over the US (lots of Rahm Emanuels out there who served in the Israeli army but NOT in the US armed forces), and has absolutely no parallel in the sense of national or cultural identity espoused by any other definable ethnic or racial group in America even the Nazi Bund in the US disappeared once Germany and the US went to war, with almost all of its members volunteering for the US armed forces;
3. The "enemy" of normal nationalist movements is the occupying power and perhaps its allies, and once independence is achieved, normal relations with the occupying power are truly the norm, but for Zionism almost everyone out there is an actual or potential enemy, differing only in proximity and placement on its very long list of enemies (which is now America's target list); and
4. Almost all nationalist movements (including the irredentist and secessionist variants) intend to create an independent state from a population in place or to reunite a separated people (like the Sudeten Germans in the 1930s) it is very rare for it to include the wholesale displacement of another indigenous population, which is far more common of successful colonialist movements as in the US and perhaps a reason why most Americans wouldn't care too much about what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians even if they DID know about it, is because that is no different than what Europeans in North America did to the Indians/Native Americans here in a longer and more low-tech fashion.
The implications of this for Middle East peace prospects, and for other countries in thrall to their domestic Jewish lobbies or not, are chilling. The Book of Deuteronomy come to life in a state with a nuclear arsenal would be enough to give pause to anyone not bought or bribed into submission which these days encompasses the US government, given Israel's affinity for throwing crap into the face of the Obama administration and Obama's visible affinity for accepting it with a smile, Bibi Netanyahu's own "Uncle Tom" come to Washington.
The late General Moshe Dayan, who Zionist or not remains an honoured part of my own Pantheon of military heroes, allegedly observed that Israel's security depended on its being viewed by others as a mad dog. He may have been correct. But he neglected to note that the preferred response of everyone else is to kill that mad dog before it can decide to go berserk and bite. It is an option worth considering.

Alan Sabrosky (Ph.D, University of Michigan) is a ten-year US Marine Corps veteran and a former director of studies at the US Army War College. He can be contacted at docbrosk@comcast.net

CLick Here...VVV
9/11 - The US Military Knows Israel Did It
The Ugly Truth Podcast

fahel- a meaningless post-what are you trying to say?

Fred-they dont give as much as the unions do to the Labour party-and they are still hellbent on further bringing this country to its knees with demands for more and more strike action-makes me puke.

Yuff,

Be careful that you don't choke on your own vomit.

I think Fahel is referring to the blinkered, intransigent stances of the present Israeli government.

It appears their thinking is in a time warp.

Is yours?

--------------

Fahel,

I read posting 1445 a couple of times.

It is bleak

My feeling is that Israels present leadership is digging a bigger and bigger hole for itself.

I don't see Obama, as an Uncle Tom, and suspect that he hoped for a more rational approach to national government, rather than the Ya Boo type of government we are seeing in America once again. (It has been similar, for far too long in this country. Cameron had a chance to rise above it, but didn't have the courage to do so.)

Obama has a hell of a problem to extradite USA from Iraq and Afghanistan with a reasonable outcome. (The cost of its wars is sapping the USA economy and the will of the American people.)

(That doesnt even take into consideration its own future internal economic problems. )

I think over the coming year we will see a rewrite of American Foreign policies, with a flexing of Obama's muscle. (I think it is already beginning to happen, in spite of the right wing of the Republicans attempt to derail his policies.)

He has already intimated that Americas previous stances in the Middle East will be modified, and this will be possible, as he and the Democrats will be less indebted and dependent on the "Israeli" lobby, for future financing of his elections.

One hopes, that there will be similar mood change in Iran and some of the more militant Middle East Countries. (Having a more moderate government in Iran would be useful, but they should be left to decide that for themselves, unless they become an actively aggressive state.)

Unfortunately, I think for now, one has to ignore the use of its CIA techniques in bordering countries.
I hope that the Israel present administration is replaced by a more moderate government, with a fresh new negotiating approach, which recognises its responsibilities to its neighbours needs, as well as its own.

Moderation by all parties is needed at present, which could lead to advancements for all concerned.

Fred1new,

you are right of all of your previous posted, yes indeed israel needs moderate gov. to start real negotiation.

Israel has a moderate Govt that will negotiate ,but will also look after the interests of its own people.

Its israels neighbours who are shall we put it politely,less than moderate.

My thinking is not in a timewarp Fred,rather more cautious than yours.

For mediation, a responsible government has to take into consideration all parties, and not those to whom it has a simple tribal allegiance.


The Israeli government, at present, is considering fore-mostly, their own internal wishes (not "needs") and is demonstrating "short term self interest".

I think, it would be wiser to consider the long term consequences of its actions.

The present tory leadership, in this country, has similar problems.

Fred

Your wistful concerns for israel's future are touching. Or at least they would be if they came from somebody with a balanced view and no axe to grind. Every one of your posts on here makes it clear that you have an anti-israel agenda that is far from balanced. Your apparent concern is just a pathetic mechanism you use to try to appear reasonable and to try to hide the bigoted two faced naive twat that you are. It doesn't work. Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining.

As I suggested months ago, after which attempts were made to howl me down.


The gulf is widening, worth reading the whole extract.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8585979.stm


Differences remain between Israel and US - White House


White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said the talks had been straightforward


Differences remain between Israel and the US, following Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's visit to Washington, the White House has said.


President Obama urged the Israeli PM to take steps to build confidence in the peace process, during "honest" talks on Tuesday, spokesman Robert Gibbs said.


Mr Gibbs added that the US was seeking "clarification" of the latest plans to build homes in occupied East Jerusalem.


Mr Netanyahu's trip came amid the worst crisis in US-Israeli ties for decades.

Etc.

Just to add to Gausie's eloquent comments, consider the following.

In a world of RealPolitick, the United States is not about to ditch their lifelong alliance with Israel. Neither are the rest of the NATO countries. There may be public tiffs and disagreements, but there is simply no way that the U.S. (or even the wimpy NATO allies) are going to ditch their nuclear proxy in the Middle East.

This is not to deny that the Palestinians have rights. I have long held that things aren't helped by Israel becoming the bully of the Middle East. At the same time, you have to see their problem. If you lived in Israel and had all the crap raining down on you from Gaza and Lebanon, knowing it was provided to Hamas/Hizbollah by the bloody Syrians and Iranians (an unholy alliance if ever I saw one - Sunni Ba'athists and radical Shias), just how long would you take it before saying "Enough, already!" and hitting back? I'm only surprised that the Israelis didn't at least threaten to nuke 'em.

When someone took your house your land what do you do?. do you just look at it from far away and pray that this person leave it or you try to defend your right and do whatever to make them leave it and go away.

he hit me and cried ,he raced me to complain
http://quietube.com/v.php/http:/www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgzVE-PzCaY

Obama will be worse than Bush

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DIO4T-OjGU&feature=youtube_gdata

Fred1New...you have summed everything up in one sentence..

"The Jews are not the only group who has been persecuted, but themselves are now becoming the persecutors."

Oh My God !!!
I left the premium section ages ago - no-one trading US shares - and have a peep in here in the "investor's room" - and what do I find?
Freddy boy is still going on and on and on and on ad infinitum and ad nauseum with his pathological hatred of Israel, Jews and everything related.
There must be some love somewhere in that twisted embittered soul of yours.
Or perhaps not.
Get a life - or get help from http://www.ocduk.org/

My God - you need therapy.

For those of independent minds, have a look at this program DATELINE London.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006m93g

Very interesting discussion for some.

Why Are Jews Persecuted?(an excellent article)

By Jayne Gardener
2-19-2008
http://www.rense.com/general80/whj.htm

I always used to wonder what it was about Jews that made
people throughout history despise them. If they were indeed
"God's chosen" I thought, they had to be the
unluckiest people in the history of the world.


Why were they persecuted throughout history?

Why had the Nazis herded them into cattle cars and taken
them to "extermination
camps" to dispose once and for the entire Jewish
problem?"

I suddenly recognized that if Hitler had developed a
"Final Solution" to
the Jewish question, that there had to have been a
"Jewish Problem." Could the Jews have in any way
behaved in such a manner that would make the countries in
which they resided turn against them, or were they just
unfortunate, innocent victims?


I set out to find answers for my questions, mainly turning
to the Internet, but also reading various books on the
subject. What I found became increasingly disturbing to me.


I had not known that throughout history, the Jews had been
expelled from 79 countries, some countries more than once.


I had not known that many of the claims they made about the
Holocaust that I had believed unquestioningly for so long
were in fact fraudulent.

The books I had read and the movies I had seen about the
"Holocaust" and wept over were nothing but thinly
veiled attempts to garner unwavering sympathy for the state
of Israel and an excuse to extort billions of dollars from
Germany and 1.25 billion dollars from the Swiss banks.


I discovered that a book I had read many times as a
teenager and cried about, Anne Frank's Diary, had been
at least partially written by someone other than Anne Frank.


I learned that the confessions at the Nuremberg Trials and
the executions of so many German "war criminals"
were extracted under torture and the defendants were being
tried, judged and condemned by their very accusers.


I learned about the "false flag" operations,
especially the Lavon affair and the tragedy of the USS
Liberty, an American ship that was attacked by the Israelis
during the 1967 war. 34 young American men were killed and
many more wounded.


To add insult to injury, the Israelis claimed that it was
simply an unfortunate case of mistaken identity, something
the survivors of the Liberty have always vehemently denied.
They, however, were threatened with court martial if they
were ever to tell their stories.


I learned about the Jonathan Pollard spy case and other
incidents of Israeli Jews spying against their supposed
"closest ally."

I became shocked and horrified as I learned about the
treatment of the Palestinian people in the occupied
territories at the hands of the Israeli Defense Forces and
the Jewish settlers. Israel purports to be the only
democracy in the Middle East, but it's only a democracy
for Jews. Non-Jews are not considered equal.


I was saddened to see pictures of innocent Palestinian
children burned beyond recognition or suffering from serious
gunshot wounds after being targeted by the IDF for no other
reason than that they are Palestinian.


I found out about the Jewish history of avariciousness,
larceny, lying, manipulation and their questionable and
usurious business practices.

I learned about their roles in the radical homosexual
movement, the radical feminist movement, the pornography
industry as well as their over-representation in the
abortion industry.


I discovered their role in organized crime, in the slave
trade, in the civil rights movement and in Communism, an
ideology that is responsible for the deaths of untold
millions and the repression of many millions more.


I learned that it was Jewish supremacists behind the war
against Christianity and Christmas. It is they who want God
out of the Pledge of Allegiance and all symbols of
Christianity removed from public life.



They have driven Christianity from the public schools
despite Christianity being the majority religion.

They have taken Christmas out of the public school calendar
despite the fact that it is a statutory holiday and it is
named Christmas.


I read about the anti-Gentilism and hatefulness of the
Babylonian Talmud and their utter disrespect for, and
hostility towards Jesus Christ, the Virgin Mary and
Christianity and Christians in general.

I learned about their "chutzpah" in claiming that
Gentile lives were worth no more than the lives of barnyard
animals but that they considered Jewish lives to be akin to
God Himself. It's okay to steal from a Gentile or to
kill a Gentile, but Jewish lives are sacred.


I learned of their control of the majority of wealth, the
media and academia despite them making up less than 2% of
the population (even lower in Canada).

They are behind the ridiculous political correctness
movement and hate crime legislation that was drafted so as
to silence anyone who might figure out their agenda and
attempt to shed light on it.


Men like German Rudolf, David Irving and many more,
previously recognized as great historians, were arrested,
charged with hate crimes and incarcerated simply for having
made academic inquiry into a specific period of history.


Other so called "revisionists" or "holocaust
deniers" have been intimidated, harassed, assaulted and
smeared simply for trying to get at the truth.

I found out that the Jews are responsible for our wide open
immigration policies that have created the nightmare we call
"multiculturalism,"
"diversity," inclusiveness" and
"pluralism."


It is mostly they who push for race mixing and
miscegenation, knowing full well that it would eventually
lead to those of white European descent being minorities in
their own countries and the eventual extermination of white
European DNA.


It is patently clear that the war in Iraq is due solely to
Israel wanting to hobble her enemies by destabilizing their
governments in order to achieve hegemony in the Middle East.


It would be unthinkable for Israeli Jews to die for this
cause, so they manipulated
the US into the war with the help of the Jewish Zionist
"Israel firsters" in the Bush administration in
order that the blood of way
too many young American men and women is shed instead.

It is they who control the Middle Eastern foreign policy of
the most powerful country in the world, the USA. It is they
who control congress, the senate and the puppet president,
George W. Bush.

They have such control in movies and television that we are
now subjected to endless programs and Hollywood movies that
mock Christianity, Christian values and degrade the
traditional family.


After sober reflection on what I had discovered about
Jewish supremacy and Zionism, I had to abandon all my
previously held notions as to the history of Jewish
persecution.

What I have trouble understanding is why they continue this
behavior in whichever society they live, knowing that
eventually they will overplay their hand and their perfidy
will be exposed yet again. Has history taught them nothing?



As more and more people become aware of what is going on
and who is responsible for it, anger is going to rise as it
already has in the former Soviet Union and eastern European
countries.

They may control television, movies and the print media,
but they don't control the Internet. At least not yet.
Blogs and websites devoted to "outing" the Jewish
supremacists will ultimately be their downfall.


If everyone who sees this information passes it on to at
least one other person, the crimes and misdeeds of the
Jewish supremacists and Zionists will be exposed and they
will have nowhere to run or hide (except Israel).


Posted by Jayne
Gardener