Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

No that is not a logical conclusion at all, kayak.
The point he made was that some people can only accentuate what they believe to be negative without being broad minded enough to see positives as well.

That is very illogical. It means one can't have a discussion about X without discussing Y as well. I can't say that the neighbour's grass is uncut without saying that his roses look nice. If I try to say that the neighbour's grass is uncut, I get a stream of abuse.

The point is that it doesn't matter if Jews or non-Jews think Celine is a good writer. He is still a good writer. He wasn't anti-Jewish, he was anti almost everyone. If Hitler, Stalin, or some other psychopath was a good writer then I would probably read them as well.

Your analogy is not appropriate.
When you have people saying a country is a rogue state which shouldn't exist and quote endless internet propaganda and display their own prejudice then it's entirely valid for others to refute that and provide positives to consider.
No-one is saying Israel is perfect, that is ridiculous, but to speak of good things as well as perceived negatives is fair and reasonable.
Now if the discussion is about the Gaza war, which was the original vehicle for fred's diatribes, then it is fair and reasonable to discuss Israeli failings as well as understanding their justification for it. However, as you know this has moved on to haymaker and fred and fahel saying a lot of other things which will not go unchallenged.

In the Land

You said,
"And how does religion colour your mindset
LOL"

"which implies that you think I must be Jewish. So not a misquote."

Of course it doesn't imply that I think you must be Jewish. I was just asking back the same question that you asked of me. You could be Muslim (unlikely), Hindu, Buddist, Christian. how would I know. Plenty of non Jews support Israel.

haymaker says
He (Celine) wasn't anti-Jewish, he was anti- almost everyone.
Not so, he was a great admirer of the Nazis and Hitler and wrote several years after the war and his imprisonment, that the Nazis'had been too soft on the "Yids" '
So, is he your favourite author?

Who exactly has said, on this thread, that Israel is a rogue state which shouldn't exist and quoted endless internet propaganda, apart from fahel?

No one has said that you shouldn't challenge other people's beliefs. That is the whole point of civilised discussion. By all means challenge Haystack and Fred.

In the Land
Do you always misquote people? I did not say that Israel should not exist. I said that Israel should not have existed. It does exist now, so we are all stuck with it. If I had the chance to change things then I would change the name of Israel to Palestine and remove all the borders between Israel and the Palestinians. It wouldn't be easy, parlt because of teh extremists on both sides.

In the Land of
Celine even called Hitler a Jew.

Do you like Dostoevsky? He was anti-Jewish as well.

How about Roald Dahl? "I am not anti-Semitic. I am anti-Israel." Dahl told a reporter in 1983.

What about T. S. Eliot, now he was anti-semitic.

Should we avoid all these and other authors?

April 9, 2010
Anti-Israel Protests Not Anti-Semitic
Happily, a Scottish court has made a very sensible ruling that anti-Israel protests are not anti-semitic and thus do not constitute "racially aggravated behaviour":

you are losing, haystack

why not just give it a rest

I never said anti-Isreal = anti-Semitic
It obviously doesn't.
Damn good cover for some though.............

In the Land
Every time anyone attacks Israel, you claim anti-semitism.

Your last post is simply untrue, haymaker. And you know it. You're just trying to to be Jesuitical or Talmudic.

Read what you like haystacker. It's still a free country. Relatively.
I can't help thinking that if a book was full of rabid anti-Jew or anti-Muslim or anti-Christian or anti-gay hatred, I personally would feel find it so morally repugnant I wouldn't want to keep on reading such material. Partly because I loathe intolerance and partly because SUCH BOOKS GENERATE AND ENCOURAGE HATRED IN THE ZEITGEIST OF A TIME AND A CULTURE. Just look at errr....... Celine........

Have you heard of, "by their friends ye shall know them"?
Maybe by their choice of reading matter shall ye know them........

I am not suggestting read anti-Jewish or anti any group literature. It is just that many of these authors are also anti semetic. Are you going to have a proscribed list of authors and books that cannot be read as does the Catholic Chruch.

Is it all right to like Wagner?

MM
Only if you don't know anything about him.

He was alright in the Austin Powers films, DelBoy, but Hart To Hart was cr@p.


:o)

I said read what you like. It's still a free country. No good trying to put words in my mouth. That's a technique poor debaters use. It actually has a name but I can't remember.
Does the Catholic Church actually have a proscribed list? I never knew that. I went to a Catholic convent school and they never told me that. I'm obviously pig ignorant (just trying to console you, haystacker).

As far as literature, music and the arts are concerned I think you have - just as in most aspects of life and living - to take things in the round, the whole, not dwell merely on what you feel or think are unsavoury aspects. Same with nation states, huh?
However, if something is suffused with prejudice and hatred then it can reach a point when that impinges on its validity or its enjoyment as you realise the artist has a warped mind set. It is a matter of degree, not absolutes.