Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

kirky , i'm with you

Give me some good arguments why we should stay in.
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I invite anybody to try and convince me to vote to stay in.
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Nothing but nothing could convince me to vote in ,i have wanted out since the 90's and now 10 times more ...

What about the french aircraft carrier which we can borrow on the odd occasion? Presumbly that cosy arrangement will come to an end? Or is that a NATO agreement?

Fred I believe you are for staying in perhaps you can give an argument for staying, it would help give some balance as most on here seem to be Leavers. Serious question Fred.
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251,

I gave it 12-18mths ago.

I am not going "retype" or C+P it.

But, I think for the UK to leave the EU is madness and the renegotiations (at what cost) would take years and be ground down by the hostility of the remaining members.

I think it is time for some in the UK to grow up, stop behaving like spoilt kids who can't get their own ways. Also, consider the mutual advancements in the ECC, EU and the UK over the last 50 odd years.

There are minor problems with the EU. The UK should spend its energy on convincing
other members of the EU that the UK's conclusions are correct and modify the opinions of the others in the organisation.

All dynamic organisations have developmental problems which should be addressed.

Thank you Fred.

i don't agree with fred that "there are minor problems with the EU"
imo, they are pretty major and will get worse

i think i have set out in quite a balanced way in post 138 what i think is likely to happen if we leave ....... it is then up to the individual how he votes ..... in fred's case, i doubt that he'll break the habit of a lifetime

Nobody asked you Wally features -):

I also disagree with Fred and whilst there are no reasons given by him for staying in, in his post, I thank him for his response.
Many EU countries have large sections of citizens that are anti the EU and if the migrant problems, which are far from minor do not get sorted quickly, (no signs of that happening soon), then more will join their ranks.

As far as negotiating I believe the cost of staying in will be far greater than leaving and not just monetarily, DC's was hardly a negotiation, he capitulated. DC will not be the PM if the vote is to leave, so a stronger argument from a stronger PM should result.

Large parts of the UK have become 'no go' area's, this will get worse imo if immigration is not curbed soon. Too many councils pussyfoot around the Muslim communities for fear of racism allegations. Most Muslims seem to be law abiding and generally want to fit in, however there is a growing number who do not.

Our news reporters, royalty etc cover their head when in Muslim countries as a mark of respect, yet many when they come here want to continue as if still in their own country, (Sharia Law/so called honour killing/genital mutilation, for example).
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Where's TANKER when you need him ?

i think it is very unfair to have a pop at DC
imo, he played as good a hand as he possibly could given that he was holding only low value cards ..... but that is by the by

i think you're right that the number of immigrants coming into eu, and acquiring eu-citizen rights is going to create all sorts of problems, as indeed it already is even excluding germany

i have no real problem with communities maintaining their own identities, and with the best will in the world, it still takes 2 and probably 3 generations before there is any meaningful integration
i don't hear you chaps complaining about the jews in forest hill and elsewhere or the chinese and their enclaves
it just happens that the muslims (you lump together an awful lot of communities there!) are today's favourite target

the sharia law issue is different and only operates in uk where both parties are in agreement ...... oh really?
while i think it should be banned, it would be difficult to enforce as sharia law and its courts still have no legal standing

as for no-go areas, i doubt that you'ld feel too comfortable strolling around parts of brixton or ibrox on a saturday night
on the other hand, there's no reason why you wouldn't walk around brick lane or curry mile in manchester or china town in any number of cities

DC took the cards HE wanted to play, he refused suggestions from his cabinet colleagues.
Muslims are THE serious threat atm, and will be even more so when Turkey's 77m population is unleashed on Europe.
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cynic

i don't hear you chaps complaining about the jews in forest hill and elsewhere or the chinese and their enclaves
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The Chinese and Jews don't want to behead us and fly their flag over Downing St ,they didn't just attack Paris and they don't turn up in a country and rape small boys and women .

"Where's TANKER when you need him ?". on holiday I expect.

jimmy - nor do the vast majority of muslims ...... on the other hand, the ira and udf or whatever it was called, had no problem at all murdering any who crossed their paths

george - there was no point at all in DC going to brussels with all guns blazing

turkey's muslims etc
again, many if not most turks want turkey to remain a secular state, as it has been since 1919
however, it is the massive influx from turkey and all the bankrupt countries that are being welcomed into eu with open arms by germany (its the driving force), that will undoubtedly cause massive problems
it's not the ethnicity, but that they will have "freedom of movement" that will swamp uk and others where work and benefit conditions are infinitely better than "at home"

Suggest looking at the following commedy show from last night on bbc2:

Stewart Lee's Comedy VehicleS4-E2 ISLAMOPHOBIA


http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b073gp8d/stewart-lees-comedy-vehicle-series-4-2-islamophobia

See if you can recognise yourself!

jimmy you are getting The Muslim faith and Jihadism mixed up. Yes there is a connection, but not for the majority of muslims.

JB, is just mixed up!

I shall vote OUT

Being part of a planet is enough. A planet with hundreds of countries, most of whom are not in. We don't need to be part of a clique.

I never like unnecessary additional tiers of government; they all cost money. Money that comes from all of us and is soaked up by thousands of administrative staff and hundreds of plane flights back and forth by politicians. Hotel expenses galore. And so many committees spending thousands of hours making decisions that don't need making - just for something to do. Most people don't even realise how much their own MEP is costing in wages and expenses, and hardly ever hear from them.

Scrap the whole wasteful game.
It's just a huge gravy train.
Look at how much money ex-Labour leader Neil Kinnock and his wife Glenys both rake in from being part of the EU machine. Likewise so many others.

I know who my local MP is -- but without Google, I wouldn't know who my MEP is, nor even what territory their constituency includes. I find that most people don't know who their MEP is - yet we pay their wages and expenses for flying back and forth.

that seems a very shallow reason to vote "out", though each to his own

i still remain in the "out" camp, though with considerable concerns ..... and i would have just as many concerns if i voted "in"

for all that, i think my (an) "out" vote will be seen as more as a strong protest, for i do not expect that camp to carry the day

Again will vote out, not really understanding the consequences.