for more information about stanelco click on the links.

driver's research page link
http://www.moneyam.com/InvestorsRoom/posts.php?tid=7681#lastread
website link
http://www.stanelco.co.uk/index.htm

My information is that the green packaging agenda has been pitched for at least 4 and a half years.
On the plus side, this means that the SEO 1 year looks more reasonable and less of a management cock up by SEO. 1 year is also, apparantly, longer than others have stayed the course, but does reinforce boz's comments that SEO are not on their own.

Thanks for the post Alan and passing on your friends opinion. A good piece of information which I think has to be taken in context to what a 'senior' buyer is likely to know at this stage.

A couple of points.

1)I'm pretty sure that WM are on record as saying they would pursue the 'green route' even if cost was higher. Dont have time at present to locate the 'quote', perhaps someone will have it to hand.

2) Take the point that WM would be involved at ASDA if a major packaging change was to take place, however, irrespective of this, we have it on record that WM are trialling STARPOL themselves in the states. Again, would normally post the source, dont have time at present.

3) Issues regarding the transportation of raw materials will exist whatever material is used. I can see no reason to suggest that the existing materials used have advantages in this respect. The U.S. imports oil in huge quantities. It has the capacity to grow the corn, it doesn't need to import it. In the case of the U.K., the present oil-based materials must also travel a huge amount - the materials wont be made from North Sea oil.

I have no doubt that if Alan has posted this that the source is reliable, but wonder how much a senior buyer would know.

I would imagine that on a need to know basis, he wouldn't actually know much yet. 'Senior buyers' can change jobs - maybe at a months notice. WM are not going to be discussing this with him or other staff at his level at the risk he could be working for , say, Sainsbury's next month! He will be kept as the proverbial mushroom, no need for him to know anything.

He has given his opinion and although he is an employee of ASDA I dont see that his opinion is any more valid or fact based than the opinion of anyone, employed by ASDA or not, who isn't actually involved at a high level in the decision making at ASDA/WM .

I would imagine he knows less about all this than most of us. If it wasn't for his ASDA connection, i.e. if he were a new poster making the points that he has , I'm sure most of us would quickly disregard what he was saying.

One further point to add to the above - the question of GM free.

The U.S. is largely in favour of GM crops, this would not be an issue in the States.

For example, see:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1708257,00.html

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11896.htm

I really wish I could give more details of my friends function and responsibilities but he was very forthcoming about this up to the point I told him of my interest in SEO. He kinda clammed up a bit then, and made me promise not to reveal who he is!!
Let me just point out that, for instance, the fresh fruit buying team do not buy from fruit growers. They buy from fruit packagers and agree the packaging and display of the items. They do not order a billion apples from orchards. The sourcing of the contents is down to the packager.
This leads me to understand that he is more involved in packaging and presentation than you may think.
I cannot tell you any more about his position as he is a very necessary part of my cricket team, and I would hate to lose his confidence or his bowling abilities!!
Take it however you all wish, guys, but I cannot emphasise enough this guys seniority at Asda, and if you knew the pains Asda went to to employ him, you would understand. If I named him, you would take his comments very seriously indeed.
He did not say though (before I am accused of bashing) that the problems are insurmountable, just that they would have to be overcome for any significant orders to be placed. He gave me no idea on timescale or likely success and no further info other than the problems with my batting technique (cheeky git).
He also told me a very interesting point about the relationship between McDonalds and Coca Cola, and where that is about to head, but thereby hangs another tale!!!
Alan

Oblo,
While GM is not an issue in the US, WM are hell bent on world domination and it is everywhere else. The direction of food retailing is very firmly towards organic, natural, environmental and fair trade. WM are big enough to swim against the tide, but yearn to be seen as everyones friend.
In the states, apparantly, they are the most hated corporation. Given that the states include McDonalds, Disney and Microsoft, that takes some doing!

Come on Alan

You cannot make that statement in your last sentence and leave us all hanging and swinging in the wind! Unless, of course, you are being deliberately provocative.

Spill the beans about Coke and McD.

The oily one

Bosley, thanks for the info from Carclo, a timely reminder of one of the other many strings to SEO's bow.
Alan, many thanks for your report, I actually find it encouraging! It sets out a good reason for delay in forming a contract; as I have said before, WM are not going to make a decision until EVERYTHING is right, no matter how small, they have a very tarnished reputation and will do anything to put a bit of polish on it. As for your contact, it seems to me that you now have a bit of a hold on him, maybe you can get him to put in a bit more practise at the nets!
kim

Good post Alan ,dont take any notice of the children.My major problem with bioplastics is the same as electric cars.The latter would be fine if the electricity was produced by a dedicated renewable source but more than likely comes from a fossil fuel burning power station so what with transmission costs etc added the car probably does more harm to the enviroment than a small petrol saloon.As for growing of corn this uses huge amounts of fossil fuels,ploughing,spraying,fertilising,the production and transport of the fertiliser,harvesting,more transporting,probably drying,transport to end user, and thats before we even start with the production of the bioplastic which certainly wont be done with a water wheel.So the question I am posing is are bioplastics really as enviromentally friendly as people say?

No great secret, Oblo.
Coca Cola had done some research, many years ago, that showed they were the cola of choice among the 35+ generstion , but a long way behind Pepsi in the younger market.
Coca Cola decided that it would be a dying brand if the trend continued and addressed it by contracting that if McDonalds payed for the transportation and packaging, they could have their Coca Cola free of charge, in order to brainwash a generation of children into asking for Coca Cola, not Pepsi. It worked and while the drink is no longer absolutley free to McDonalds, the trading terms are a loss leader for Coca Cola and a massive cash cow for McDonalds. Coca Cola now believe that the balance of power between the two has changed and are addressing the issue of this particualr agreement as we speak. A real clash of the titans!!!
Alan

hi Alan,
based on your converstaions with this Asda person are you still in?

I'm still in.
I was given the distinct impression that the product is good and has passed its trials (note- impression. He did not say this outright), and that the points above are all that stand in the way of WM commitment.
He did know the product intimately but was not a part of the team that will ultimately decide. He was, however, kept in the loop because of the nature of the products he sources / buys, and their need to be packaged in the corporate style.
I am inclined to agree that the GM issue and transportation issue will probably be resolved by an environmental audit, and that no product will ever be 100% green. There will always be fossil fuels used somewhere in the production and that WM will go for the lesser of two evils, unless a serious and much better alternative arrives.
My contact has not heard anything about Wrap, though this is not surprising as it has no bearing on Asda, but he was bemused as to what could possibly be tested to any great degree on a piece of paper. He is of the opinion that this, too, will stand or fall on an environmental audit.
Alan

Oblo, re your comment "I'm pretty sure that WM are on record as saying they would pursue the 'green route' even if cost was higher. Don't have time at present to locate the 'quote', perhaps someone will have it to hand".

Don't have the quote to hand, but I can distinctly remember reading same, so you are correct.

Walmart as Alan said have been voted in a USA survey to be the most hated corporation after Microsoft, and if you peruse several of their reports, comments over the last year, as I am sure you have, they are determined to put this right by the biggest PR splurge re going green, ever. Note that Tesco are also going green mad, and have also stated cost savings are not a priority ( but statements like that are also good PR, and when it comes down to it, profit is the bottom line ). That will be the way forward for at least the near future with these massive conglomerates in the push for world corporate domination. Green is the new money push.

Alan, from your earlier post 17201:

"My friend would not be drawn on the success or otherwise of the trials, and would only smile knowingly when I broached the Wrap subject."

and from your post 17229:

"My contact has not heard anything about Wrap"

Me thinks someone maybe telling porkies here, please folks, make your own decisions and please don't believe too much on BB's. The chances of one of the few people who post on this BB actually knowing and chatting to a buyer in ASDA who just so happens to be involved with Stanelco's trials are so remote, you'd stand more chance of winning the lottery! DYOR folks!

Biscuit

How many counties will follow. ( For full article re copyright, see link ).
Revised law aims to curb Japan's plastic obsession.
Society's view of package as part of product will make reduction difficult.
By Hiroko Tabuchi THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

The world uses between 500 billion to 1 trillion plastic bags a year.
Wrapping-happy Japan is a major player, consuming some 30 billion about 300 for each adult.
Japan probably uses more plastic than most societies in the world.
The revised law was approved by Parliament on Friday.
Stores must be forced to charge for bags. That's the only way Japanese consumers can be persuaded to cut down on the plastic bags they use.
Japan is now trying to reduce plastic use with a law revision that lets the government issue warnings to retailers that don't do enough to reduce, reuse and recycle.
End of snippets from article.....Of course the use of bio-degradable bags would help.

http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060612/BUSINESS/606120311/1092

Biscuit,

I agree that the chances of a poster actually knowing and speaking to someone involved, or in the know is remote, but it can happen. For example, I have shares with KCOM, the Hull based telecoms company. When they started to develop broadband for residential consumers, I saw greatly increased activity at the connection junctions near to my house. In a general chat with an engineer, he stated that overtime was there for the asking, and they were having difficulty keeping up with demand. Sales were going through the roof. This was quantified when the official figures were released. OK I agree some big differences, but people do talk, and no matter what your position, such as a buyer etc, they do go to pubs and the like, and we all chat about our work to some extent.
I totally agree DYOR.

Biscuit.
Methinks you read things that are not there.
I broached the wrap subject and he smiled knowingly. I had mentioned it, but it is not within his realm in any way. he therefore knows nothing about it. He has heard nothing about it. his knowing and wry smile are based on what I had said about it and its trials. He is involved in many Asda trials and cannot understand what trialling a piece of paper needs!! It is a short term wrapping that will be in use for no time at all. He never intimated anything else and I have not posted anything else.
As for the equation with lottery chances, have you never played six degrees of kevin bacon?? Thought not.
Would it surprise you to know that the cricket club I am with also contains the chairman and 2 board members from NIC Hygiene, the manger of a Unibond league club, 2 ex-professional footballers, the head of a private investigation agency, the chair of a unibond league team, the chief exec of a private finance brokers and that I spend my Saturday mornings chatting with John Sheridan?
Would it surprise you to learn that I live within 3 miles of the Asda head office and play my cricket within 5 miles of there?
It comes as no shock to me that I am well acquainted with someone involved in Asda in a key role. Your comment is as silly as saying that someone living in Dover is unlikely to know a high ranking sea officer.
Take it or leave it, I don't care.

Biscuit, I noticed that little anomaly but frankly I do not think that Alan is the type to spread unfounded facts about, he has stated many times that he will hang on to SEO no matter what, so he really does not have anything to gain by telling porkies! The only danger here is that his friend might not have anything to do with ASDA but is in fact Blinger, in disguise!
kim

Unaware that I was giving evidence at the Old Bailey, let me clear this point up.
My friend is not involved in Wrap. As far as I know, Asda is not involved in Wrap. He claimed no knowledge of it, I mentioned it as part of the McDonalds discussion, and he queried why the trials for a piece of paper that goes on a burger and comes off again 2 minutes later. He was enigmatic and smiling over that fact, nothing else of which i am aware.
BTW. English is not his first language and there is the occassional smile exchanged over subtle misunderstandings, but this is not the case here, just for the record.
Any future discussions that take place between us will remain as confidential as he wished (and I now wish) this one to be.
I appear to be too stupid to know anyone in a position such as his, and I am definitley stupid if I think people will take true comments on here as factual statements.
Alan

Alan, apologies if my earlier post seemed a little aggressive - it wasn't intended but in view of some of the later posts I want to clarify that. I have no doubt that you made your post in 100% good faith and that your friend also made his comments in 100% good faith.

My own viewpoint, for what its worth, is that the decision whether to go ahead or not will be made in the U.S. and not the buying department of ASDA in Leeds. ASDA will be told to adopt or drop and wont necessairily be privy to the reasoning behind the decision. That is how U.S. corporations treat their 'satellites' in my experience.

Please keep posting any further info if you can without blowing your cover (cricketing pun intended) and thank you!

Seo get a mention here but not in a direct link to Delhaise. Still any publicity etc.

With Belgium-based supermarket Delhaize opting to adopt biodegradable packaging for prepared salads, retailer mandates are just around the corner.
Delhaize has been testing NatureWorks' corn-based packaging since August 2005 in one store. Now the chain calls the trials "successful", all Delhaize supermarkets in Belgium will be using the packaging for prepared salads. The mandate extends to external suppliers -- as well as organic

Another company competing in the biodegradable packaging market is UK-based Stanelco. The company markets a natural, biodegradable food packaging based on starch, called Starpol 2000

http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/news/ng.asp?n=68336-natureworks-delhaize-biodegradable