One of the Lloyds Insurance Brokers and trading derd cheap on a p/E of only just over 4. There is of course a reason for this and it was the termination of talks with Highways Insurance Holdings Plc (late april) were both parties jointly terminated a possible combining of their respective businesses.

Investors took this as a negative sign with Cox and the shares plummeted and have been well oversold.


The plusses are that you can snap this up at a P/E of 4.2

2 Directors have bought into the recovery

The share trades at a large discount to the sector

Last results were excelent

The forward statement is very encouraging and business is well on track

The share is in uptrend and has been for 4 consecutive days.





please DYOR.

cheers GF.

For those posters on the thread bears or bulls and who are not out to deliberately mislead, re- to tax, please see RNS 17th March 2004, results for year ended 2003. Alongside the annual report and accounts this also clarifys, note the present and future tax postion of the company.

cheers GF.

Just ticked up a penny, NICE. Way undervalued on a P/E of just over 4.

cheers GF

Guys,

This dispute has rumbled on for some time now and there is obviously a certain amount of bad feeling here.

I have received complaints from both sides about different posts and posters and myself and Mike have taken action where we have deemed it necessary.

It is obvious that from time to time there will be disputes of this nature when views conflict. I would ask that we now return to sensible debate.


Ian

This is one reason I see also for the low rating:
From the RNS 17th March:

Calculation of inwards reinsurance claims remains subject to further subjective
assessment because the Company must rely on estimates of loss provided by the
intermediate insurer or reinsurer.

Reinsurance recoveries represent the amounts expected to be recoverable from the
syndicate's reinsurers in respect of reported gross losses. As currently
estimated, gross ultimate claims will exceed the vertical limit of the Group's
whole account reinsurance protections. Calculation of such recoveries is
particularly sensitive as to whether or not reinsurers will follow direct
writers, should the courts deem that the attack on the WTC constitute two losses
rather than one. After taking legal advice, management consider that the likely
treatment from reinsurers should not prove disadvantageous to the Group. It
remains difficult to reach a final decision prior to resolution of the dispute
and establishment of a legal ruling regarding the underlying claim. Should
reinsurers argue successfully that the reinsurance policy should respond on a
one event basis only, even though the inwards claim was deemed to be two losses,
the resulting net loss to the Company would increase materially from the
estimates currently provided. The amount of reinsurance recoveries also remains
sensitive to potential insolvencies of reinsurers, with a current assumption
that there will be no major default.

Whilst the directors consider that the loss estimate is the best that can be
made on the basis of information currently available, it remains subject to
uncertainties as described above. Further information could be received which
may cause the estimate to be adjusted, either upwards or downwards. The cost or
benefit of any such future adjustments will be reflected in the Financial
Statements for the period in which the adjustments are made. It may take a
number of years to resolve these uncertainties.

IanT,

Thank you, I hope you will continue to take action, more often even. I am often so fed up of seeing certain names crop up I don't even read the posts. The main reason I renewed my membership with Shares is to read the sensible information packed BB and wish that some folks would mind their manners and find other ways to pass their time.

There, been wanting to say that for a long time.

angi,

I appreciate your comments. A little tip to help you filter out any poster whom you do not wish to read would be to use the squelch facility. therefore, you can read through the posts you want to read unhindered.

Ian

IanT

Thanks again, I don't know why I didn't think of that before, it's amazing.

third eye posting no 15

posting no 20 gives you a part response. however it is also the case that one just does not know what insurers are underwriting and how adequate are their reserves. many insurers do not even have a 'wing and a prayer' i have an active knowledge of this scenario. over the decades most insurers have priced for turnover and not for profit. for instance when INDEPENDENT went down AXA and ROYAL SUNALLIANCE took on automatically all former business of independent which was offered by insurance brokers. complete madness...it turned out that,for example, royal sunalliance was nearly broke solvency-wise and could well have been forced out of business

as regards the pension fund of COX my point is that there is so much funny business within pension funds coupled with their liabilities that the trading company can be ,in reality, a pensions office. all trading companies can or will encounter severe difficulties with a final salary pension fund . bradstock is a fine example....and the shareholders of W.H. SMITH would be in a more favourable bid position if their pension scheme had not given so much power to the trustees of the final salary pension scheme. thus one even should examine the pension deed itself which really no one is able to do. i hope this helps goldfinger and third eye. i shall obtain a copy of cox accounts and look at what they have currently to say about their pension fund...with a pinch of salt.

Can we insure against problematic insurers ? lol

Thanks mpw777 the notes in the accounts re: 17 March are well worth reading

Just to put things straight and out in the open so that at least one bear who is intent on giving out misleading information (yet again)but yet I feel knows the truth...........................................................

Cox Insurance Holdings PLC
14 June 2004



14 June 2004


For immediate release


Cox Insurance Holdings Plc ('Cox')

Clarification Statement re terminated discussions with Highway Insurance
Holdings Plc ('Highway') and robustness of reserve position


The Board of Cox has become aware of a press report which suggests that Cox may
be insufficiently reserved to meet its existing and future claims and which
speculates on the reasons behind the termination of Cox's discussions with
Highway. The Board of Cox wishes to correct a number of material inaccuracies
contained in the press report, clarify the events leading up to the Board's
withdrawal from the Highway discussions and confirm the robustness of the
Group's reserves as actuarially reviewed and included in its audited accounts.

Termination of discussions with Highway

On 30 April 2004, the Board of Cox announced that it had terminated discussions
with the Board of Highway regarding a possible combination of their respective
businesses, having determined that a transaction with Highway would not be in
the best interests of Cox's shareholders. At the time, Cox did not divulge any
background to the breakdown in discussions. However, in the light of misinformed
speculation, Cox now believes itself to be obliged, amongst other things, under
the UK Listing Rules to make some clarifying comments.

The termination of discussions with Highway was initiated by Cox after its Board
concluded that, although a combination with Highway could have delivered
substantial synergies, a transaction would not be suitably accretive either to
Cox's net assets or earnings based upon the expected amount of retained
business, reserving, and the need to conform accounting standards across the
combined group.

After becoming aware of Cox's concerns, Highway presented its draft views of
Cox's reserving position including comments attributed to EMB, Highway's
actuarial advisers, which purported to show that Cox's reserve position was
inadequate. At no stage prior to this presentation had Highway or EMB discussed
their views of Cox's reserving position with Cox's management or actuarial
advisers. On receiving this presentation, Cox promptly examined in detail each
of the statements relating to its reserve position and shared the presentation
with its own actuarial advisers. The Cox Board was fully advised of this
presentation and management's analysis and concluded that there was no substance
to the suggestion that Cox was under-reserved.

Robust reserving

Cox reaffirms that its own reserves position is robust. The audited consolidated
Group accounts of Cox include its share of the claims reserves held by Syndicate
218 at Lloyd's in respect of claims notified and claims incurred but not yet
notified to the Syndicate. The Syndicate's actuarial advisors, Deloitte
Actuarial & Insurance Solutions, reviewed the level of reserves required and
confirmed on 27 April 2004 that the amounts provided were adequate as at 31
December 2003. Cox confirms that the reserves included in its audited
consolidated Group accounts at that same date, which were audited by
PricewaterhouseCoopers, are adequate to cover its claims exposures.

As Cox stated in its announcement of 11 June 2004, a prudent approach to
underwriting and reserving is the fundamental characteristic of the business
philosophies of Cox and Syndicate 218 at Lloyd's and is the major factor behind
Syndicate 218's unparalleled success in delivering over 30 years of unbroken
profit.

Cox's track record, and that of Syndicate 218, demonstrate that their
methodologies for estimating claims liabilities are prudent, combining thorough
analysis of historical experiences and expert assessment of future trends,
taking into account the particular characteristics of different classes of
business.

Future development

On 11 June 2004, Cox announced the appointment of a new Group Chief Executive,
Andrew Fisher, to spearhead the next phase of the company's development. The
whole of the Cox Board, including the two principal shareholders represented on
it, are enthusiastically supportive of accelerating the delivery of enhanced
shareholder value by actively seeking out appropriate acquisitions and by
growing Cox's strong portfolio of businesses. With a strengthened management
team at the helm, the company is very well positioned to achieve its goals and
build on its position as a leader in the UK retail insurance market.

ENDS

Enquiries:

Cox Insurance Holdings Plc 01277 200111
Peter Owen, Chairman
James Morley, Finance Director

Hogarth Partnership Limited 020 7357 9477
Rachel Hirst/John Olsen

EXCELENT, what more do you want for a P/E of just 4.

Cox Insurance Holdings PLC
17 March 2004


Cox Insurance Holdings Plc
Unaudited Preliminary Results for the year ended 31st December 2003

2003 2002
Operating profit on ordinary activities before tax and
amortisation for continuing operations * 58.0m 52.6m

Profit on ordinary activities before tax 52.1m 42.7m

Earnings per share 18.6p 11.2p

Dividend per share 1.0p Nil


* On the basis of a longer-term rate of return


Highlights

Most successful year in Cox's history
Profit before tax increased 22.0% to 52.1m (2002: 42.7m)
Underwriting profit on continuing business, up 32.7% to 52.7m (2002:39.7m)
Motor Operating ratio of 86.3% remains one of the lowest in the industry
Targeted cost reductions on track
Commercial run-off performing in line with expectations
Earnings per share increased 66.1% to 18.6p (2002: 11.2p)
Recommended dividend of 1p per share
Market remains strong, Cox well positioned to exploit growth opportunities

Peter Owen, Chairman, said:

'We have laid firm foundations upon which to develop our future growth and
profitability. We have a strong team and proven strategy which is delivering
positive results and a track record in underwriting that is unparalleled. We
believe that the underwriting climate remains favourable, particularly in our
chosen markets where both volumes and premiums are showing encouraging signs of
growth. I have every confidence that we will continue to build on our impressive
performance going forward.'

For further information, please contact:

Cox Insurance Holdings Plc 01277 200111

cheers GF.

Up again today, not a large rise but Ill take it.

cheers GF.

You can't mislead just posting the facts, check this note in the accounts:

2. The Lloyd's Agreement

On 11 April 2002 the Company and certain of its subsidiaries entered into an
agreement with Lloyd's relating to the proposed restructuring of the Group's
activities.

As a consequence any further economic exposure of the group in respect of the
liabilities of CDCM Limited ('CDCM') estimated at the balance sheet date from
its participation on Syndicate 1208 should be limited to the aggregate of the
Isolated Assets namely:

Remaining covenanted Funds at Lloyd's

Underwriting earnings from the 2002 and prior underwriting accounts

Any value realised by Cox in respect of CDCM's tax losses.

875,000 of financing charges

If the liabilities of CDCM were to deteriorate beyond this limit CDCM could
become insolvent as the Company will not provide any further support to its
subsidiary. Should CDCM become insolvent, subsequent to the appointment of a
liquidator the Company would no longer consolidate the assets and liabilities of
CDCM. However, until this time any future underwriting results and other changes
in the value of assets and liabilities of CDCM will be reflected in the Group's
profit and loss account.

At 31 December 2003 the value of assets recognised in the Group balance sheet
which are subject to this exposure are estimated to be 50.4m (31 December 2002
- 17m).

I prefer to stick to historical facts and the facts are this the company at last results had positive assets of 50.4 million 31/12/2003 re- CDCM the previous year they had liabilities of 17 million 31/12/2002.

Also note, from the accounts the reorganisation (in other words ERS in the reorganisation as taken on all new business of CDCM and please remember their assets in the balance sheet will have to be revised greatly upwards on next results, CDCM will cease to write any new business)..........

Cox Syndicates

Cox Insurance Holdings Plc conducts its underwriting business at Lloyd's via two
dedicated corporate Names - CDCM Limited (CDCM) and Equity Red Star Limited
(ERS) both of which are wholly owned subsidiaries of the Group.
CDCM was the single largest name on motor and personal lines Syndicate 218 until
30 June 2002. With effect from 1 July 2002 ERS took on the motor and personal
lines business arising from that date. CDCM is the only Name on composite
Syndicate 1208 and ceased to write any new business as at 31 December 2002.


We could discuss the 62 million Tax Shelter it as, and why there is continuing talk of US re- insurers taking a look at this one. Why it as just had its most sucessfull year to date with records broken in various departments. The bear argument just gets weaker and weaker, why would one of the top Investment fund managers in the country take a considerable stake in this one.

cheers GF.

Trading update.........

Cox Insurance Holdings PLC
20 May 2004


20 May 2004

Cox Insurance Holdings Plc

AGM Trading Statement and Announcement of Outsourcing Agreement

At today's Annual General Meeting of Cox Insurance Holdings Plc ('Cox'), Peter
Owen, Chairman, will give the following update on trading and comment on the
outsourcing agreement referred to below:

Underwriting

The year has started well with business volumes continuing to increase. Rates
are largely holding and we have managed to achieve increases in some sectors in
recent months. By focusing on those market sectors that offer the best potential
for healthy returns, we are confident that our underwriting business will
continue to be a major driver of growth for Cox in 2004. We anticipate that our
combined ratio will remain at the forefront of the motor insurance industry.

Broking and Insurance Services

Our focus on profitable growth and our actions to drive costs out of the
business are expected to result in a further improvement in underlying
performance in 2004 despite strong competition in the marketplace. Our
businesses are well positioned to exploit the significant trading opportunities
that exist within the consumer and business-to-business markets.

Outsourcing Agreement

Cox has entered into a ten year outsourcing agreement for the management of its
IT services with CGI (Europe) Limited ('CGI'), part of a group which is a
leading provider of IT services with a particular focus on the financial
services market. The outsourcing agreement takes effect from 20 May 2004 with
planned service commencement on 17 June 2004. Cox has already made good progress
towards its stated cost reduction target of 15m per annum by the end of 2005
and this agreement represents a significant element. The CGI agreement is
expected to become earnings enhancing in the 2005 financial year, when it is
estimated to deliver annualised pre-tax cost savings of approximately 3.8m
(equating to 0.8p per share based on Cox's current issued share capital and a
tax rate of 30%). Based on current IT spend, the agreement should deliver
savings to Cox in the region of 40m over the term of the contract, representing
a reduction in Cox's IT operating costs of almost 18 per cent.

Isolated Business

We continue to make good progress in the run-off of the commercial business in
line with expectations.

Strategy and Outlook

Cox remains committed to its strategy of underwriting for profit, not market
share, with the objective of consistently growing the business throughout the
underwriting cycle. In pursuing its growth strategy, Cox will continue to
exploit organic growth opportunities as well as explore suitable acquisitions,
applying a similarly disciplined approach to the evaluation of investment
opportunities.

We have seen a positive start to the year and are confident that our strategy
leaves Cox well positioned to build on its impressive performance in the current
year and beyond.



Enquiries:

Cox Insurance Holdings Plc 01277 200111
Peter Owen, Chairman
Neil Utley, Chief Executive
James Morley, Finance Director

Who's right Haighway or Cox?
No smoke without fire?
Why is the rating so lowly valued by the City?

Cox rubbishes notion it has under-reserved


Cox Insurance, the Lloyd's underwriter that ousted chief executive Neil Utley last week, courted fresh controversy yesterday when it said suggestions casting doubt on its level of reserves were "not worth a row of beans".


Cox chairman Peter Owen fiercely rejected claims relating to the acrimonious breakdown of the company's takeover talks with rival Highway.

Cox, Britain's seventh largest motor insurer with a stock market capitalisation of 200m, was widely expected to buy Highway after the two entered talks in March.

Both specialise in motor insurance - a sector rapidly consolidating - and are based in Brentwood, Essex.

However, Cox ended the talks in April, declining to give details. Yesterday, it issued a statement after being stung by suggestions it had been spurned by Highway because of concerns that it may have under-reserved against future claims.

According to a report, Highway became concerned after actuary EMB said Cox's potential exposure to motor injury claims could be 70m higher than an estimate by Deloitte, another actuary.

Mr Owen stormed: "This question of who walked away from the deal. It was us. This suggestion that Highway got last-minute nerves - that was not the case."

He said Cox decided against buying Highway because it would not add enough to net assets or earnings, based on expected retained business, reserving and the need to combine accounting systems.

After Cox voiced its concerns, Mr Owen said Highway gave Cox a presentation including comments attributed to EMB that "purported to show Cox's reserve position was inadequate".

"Our folks went through it line by line," Mr Owen said, "and it was not really worth a row of beans in terms of our reserving. I have no idea how they came up with it and you could not see it within their presentation.

"There was no arithmetic determination that leads to 70m. It was just a number that was in there. The board is comfortable with our reserving and our actuaries, auditors and our regulator are also comfortable with it."

Highway is led by executive chairman Ross Dunlop and chief Andrew Gibson and valued on the stock market at 66m. It declined comment.

Mr Owen said the Highway episode had no bearing on the decision to replace Mr Utley with former Coutts chief Andrew Fisher.

Just to put things straight and out in the open so that at least one bear who is intent on giving out misleading information (yet again)but yet I feel knows the truth...........................................................

Cox Insurance Holdings PLC
14 June 2004



14 June 2004


For immediate release


Cox Insurance Holdings Plc ('Cox')

Clarification Statement re terminated discussions with Highway Insurance
Holdings Plc ('Highway') and robustness of reserve position


The Board of Cox has become aware of a press report which suggests that Cox may
be insufficiently reserved to meet its existing and future claims and which
speculates on the reasons behind the termination of Cox's discussions with
Highway. The Board of Cox wishes to correct a number of material inaccuracies
contained in the press report, clarify the events leading up to the Board's
withdrawal from the Highway discussions and confirm the robustness of the
Group's reserves as actuarially reviewed and included in its audited accounts.

Termination of discussions with Highway

On 30 April 2004, the Board of Cox announced that it had terminated discussions
with the Board of Highway regarding a possible combination of their respective
businesses, having determined that a transaction with Highway would not be in
the best interests of Cox's shareholders. At the time, Cox did not divulge any
background to the breakdown in discussions. However, in the light of misinformed
speculation, Cox now believes itself to be obliged, amongst other things, under
the UK Listing Rules to make some clarifying comments.

The termination of discussions with Highway was initiated by Cox after its Board
concluded that, although a combination with Highway could have delivered
substantial synergies, a transaction would not be suitably accretive either to
Cox's net assets or earnings based upon the expected amount of retained
business, reserving, and the need to conform accounting standards across the
combined group.

After becoming aware of Cox's concerns, Highway presented its draft views of
Cox's reserving position including comments attributed to EMB, Highway's
actuarial advisers, which purported to show that Cox's reserve position was
inadequate. At no stage prior to this presentation had Highway or EMB discussed
their views of Cox's reserving position with Cox's management or actuarial
advisers. On receiving this presentation, Cox promptly examined in detail each
of the statements relating to its reserve position and shared the presentation
with its own actuarial advisers. The Cox Board was fully advised of this
presentation and management's analysis and concluded that there was no substance
to the suggestion that Cox was under-reserved.

Robust reserving

Cox reaffirms that its own reserves position is robust. The audited consolidated
Group accounts of Cox include its share of the claims reserves held by Syndicate
218 at Lloyd's in respect of claims notified and claims incurred but not yet
notified to the Syndicate. The Syndicate's actuarial advisors, Deloitte
Actuarial & Insurance Solutions, reviewed the level of reserves required and
confirmed on 27 April 2004 that the amounts provided were adequate as at 31
December 2003. Cox confirms that the reserves included in its audited
consolidated Group accounts at that same date, which were audited by
PricewaterhouseCoopers, are adequate to cover its claims exposures.

As Cox stated in its announcement of 11 June 2004, a prudent approach to
underwriting and reserving is the fundamental characteristic of the business
philosophies of Cox and Syndicate 218 at Lloyd's and is the major factor behind
Syndicate 218's unparalleled success in delivering over 30 years of unbroken
profit.

Cox's track record, and that of Syndicate 218, demonstrate that their
methodologies for estimating claims liabilities are prudent, combining thorough
analysis of historical experiences and expert assessment of future trends,
taking into account the particular characteristics of different classes of
business.

Future development

On 11 June 2004, Cox announced the appointment of a new Group Chief Executive,
Andrew Fisher, to spearhead the next phase of the company's development. The
whole of the Cox Board, including the two principal shareholders represented on
it, are enthusiastically supportive of accelerating the delivery of enhanced
shareholder value by actively seeking out appropriate acquisitions and by
growing Cox's strong portfolio of businesses. With a strengthened management
team at the helm, the company is very well positioned to achieve its goals and
build on its position as a leader in the UK retail insurance market.

ENDS

Enquiries:

Cox Insurance Holdings Plc 01277 200111
Peter Owen, Chairman
James Morley, Finance Director

Hogarth Partnership Limited 020 7357 9477
Rachel Hirst/John Olsen

cheers GF.

Scandinavian software that as an excelent track record shows COX to be a buy.



Anything over the red line is a strong buy.

cheers GF.

i feel that the natural reaction of cox and their profesional advisers would be to justify that their current claims basis was correct............and indeed that was the actual action of both cox and their actuaries..

perhaps we could dream that both cox and their actuaries would indeed re-examine the claims figures and then say 'thankyou HIGHWAY for revealing your concerns .we have re-examined our files and looked at the nature and financial strengh of our re-insurance arrangements and you are correct. we are thus revising our claims reserves and these are now quite close to your figures.'
as stated this is just a dream.

i back that the approach of HIGHWAY is correct. i have some knowledge of insurers and their claims reserves. quite frankly it is all built upon sand and i have little confidence in claims people.see the mess of insurers who all trade for volume and not profit
some where there is a flaw in their[cox] motor claims estimating and highway have found it.
it may be that the reinsurance arrangements do not stand up....or reinsurance recoveries will not be made with certainty.

what i anticipate will happen is that cox will quitely tighten their appproach to claims estimates and so we shall see one or more adverse results arising as that approach starts to bite.

if cox have not got their claims figures right then one bad result is that cox is currently charging premiums which are to low. thus cox will have to put up their premiums by an extra margin. then what happens is that new business reduces and a higher % of their better policy holders move off elsewhere. the poorer quality policyholders tend to stay. the next consequence is that expense ratios increase and claims ratios get worse and so premiums need to go up more sharply again . so the wheel turns again and again. i have closely seen the cox experiance again and again over many years. i continue to hold a substantial number of cox shares because i anticipated that wood would do a purchase in view of his friendship with utley. i still feel that cox will be a target...always proving the pension fund trustees cooperate and that the actual hole in their pension fund is not too severe.