Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Asprin? :-)

I feel that any religeon should be questioned, but not mocked as that only causes trouble.
Got slightly caught up in a demo in Sharm el Sheik last night, shouting and placards, but no violence.
Could still get very ugly though.
Religions cause more problems and wars than anthing else.
Aythists forever!

The political and militant islamists are behaving in a similar manner to the Catholic church in the middle ages. Their leaders are linking all of life to religion and will not tolerate any adverse comments. The best way to stop it is to confront it it. We need to show that we have free speech and it is not our goverment's place to stop comments about religion as the Islamists would want.

At the moment our leaders say how terrible that these comments, cartoons or films have been made. We need to tell them that they have to put up with it and be less sensitive. Religion attempts to make itself a special case. It is NOT a special case. It is just a bunch of people who believe in a paranormal being despite evidence to the contrary. There is a constant fear of offending people in a number of situations. Our lives have become so safe regarding crime, illnesses etc that we have to concentrate on anything that inconveniences or upsets us. Being offended really is pretty trivial. So long as we are not descriminated because of some aspect of our behaviour then a certain amount of ridicule for silliness is to be expected. If I had a pet hampster and said it was the son of god people would quite rightly laugh about it at the very least. Exactly the same is true of all religions.

The confrontation of what has become a type of holy war is just as much a war as other wars. At the moment we are doing a sort of Neville Chamberlain job on the problem. Appeasement never has worked.

RF

“I don't mean films that are humorous, there is a difference.”

The problem with that position is that what one considers humorous or “funny” another finds “insulting” or “offensive”. The difficulty with censorship is how far one leans, to what side and the more problematic is why the “censorship” is introduced.

Look at the Fascist state of Hiller and the "Communist" state of Stalin.

I remember, my kids, when they were kids enjoyed “The Life of Brian”, at that time , even as an atheist I thought it was being deliberately “offensive”, didn’t like what I viewed, but let them make their own minds up. I would not have prevented it being shown.

Censorship is problematic, but “all” I think should be questionable and open to discussion if “individuals” wish to discuss or view the products.

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Hays,

I agree with much of your statements.

But would suggest you pronounce with zealousness.

Also, many a theories or models, which we operate on throughout our lives later, prove to be false.

Those theories or models were strongly believed in and allowed functionality. Those using them, believed them as strongly as any beliefs and don’t like them refuted, even though later thought and theories have proved them wrong.

I wouldn’t consider mocking Newton.

I wouldn’t mock you for holding you political beliefs, or your reliance on or your
political beliefs.

(Not sure about that. 8-))

I would prefer a purely “secular” state and agree that fantasy beliefs should not give “privalages”.
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The said film seems to me to be deliberately provocative and has produced the "wished" for responses.

It plays into into the hands of those who wish to provoke "physical" confrontation.

After the "wars" and "killings", "talking" takes place.

It is a pity that "talking" is to often proceeded by "murder".

I very much agree with your post 18222. CC.

Pity the two subjects Religion and the Hillsborough Disaster are crossing on here but there we are.

On Religion, some good points well made on the here, but one point always seems to be forgotten when religion is discussed and that is that in this country (at least) some Religious organisations effectively "work for Free" in a number of areas in our society and Governments know this and are loath to upset them to much for obvious reasons.. It saves "them" paying people and therefore Governments don't have to raise so much Tax to.

The "Right to Die" is a constant and pitiful example of successive Governments not wanting to upset Religions to the extent that they fear the "Free labour" lessens or may disappear.

Stan,

The problem with "Right to die" legislation are fraught.

I think any "sane" and "mature" person, after "truthful" and "realistic" evaluation of their circumstances, have the right to dispose of their own life as they see fit, as long as the method is not deliberately offensive to, or endangering to their society.

However, if the act of killing depends on the acts of others (doctors, nurses, etc.) and by the given permission of others, such as relatives, doctors, or the courts then the legislation has to be carefully drawn up. The latter may be where the reluctance is.

Personally, I think I have the right to self-termination.

Fred,

Yes obviously safeguards should be in place but I still think the real reason is the cheap labour one, no Party Politician will admit that of course.

While we are on this subject , let's bring a bit of sanity back to the debate.

http://www.davidicke.com/

Stan - Religion in my very humble opinion, should be for the individual to decide, if it provides comfort, hope, inspiration whatever then so be it for that individual. But that should be where the line is drawn, unfortunately if you are a Jehovas witness then you are right and no other. If you are Roman Catholic then you are right and no other, if you are Church Of England you are right and no other etc etc. and never the twain shall meet. And each one of every religion has the right to express and believe those views if they so wish. And Then there are the atheasts who hope Burnley win the Championship and Everton win the Premiership. :O) Sorry had a few beers soon be winter and the nights will be drawing in, cracking day in Aberdeen today, golf was shite but you can't have everything, As Dave Allen said 'May your God go with you' Have a cracking good weekend.

My two basic views:

1. People's belief should be respected, especially religions. However, all religions are fundamentally good, they are being misused, so the real fundamentals are obscured and misinterpreted. What we know about Islam differs from each other (Shia, Sunni, Wahhabi, Bahia, etc ...) , the same is true for other religions… you name them.

2. Religion should not be mixed with politic, they cannot be mixed or matched. It appears that religious governments are the most corrupt governments in the world. They will (are being) changed as internet makes people aware of the real facts and smooth out the differences.

'Well-rehearsed attack'
More details have emerged about the attack on Camp Bastion, which the Taliban said was in retaliation for a film mocking Islam made in the US.

In a statement, Nato said the attack had been carried out by 15 insurgents dressed in US Army uniforms who "appeared to be well-equipped, trained and rehearsed".

"The insurgents, organised into three teams, penetrated at one point of the perimeter fence," it said.

As well as the six AV-8B Harrier jets destroyed, two were significantly damaged. Three refuelling stations were also destroyed, and six aircraft hangars were damaged.

Fourteen of the insurgents were killed, Nato said, and one was taken into custody. Nine coalition personnel were wounded.

10 year's on and this is what is happening, Let's face it we have lost this war. Was it worth the blood of a single British soldier , has it made the UK any safer ?

religion is only for the uneducated simpletons who can be used .
religion is a weapon againts these poor uneducated.
religion is EVIL and anyone with a brain can see this.

aussies looking at deporting the people that did damage and hurt police officers .
yes kick them out send them to a life of poverty.

Remember, your views is as important as their views. You cannot change them, they will change but gradually. These people beleive in something and are happy to die for it.

If the film maker is procecuted in public, everything will be calm afterward. It does not matter if what shown is correct or lies, it is against one of the most important religions in the world.

Those who paid to make the film are responsible for all the losses.

Ahoj,

I don't think one person can be responsible for the self evoked actions of another.

The "thought" preceding the action belongs to the individual who carries out the action.

Whether it is justifiable or not is another argument.

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I am very sensitive about my roses and anybody who mocks them or denigrates them is looking for trouble.

Depends on who the culprits are as how painful to them my response will be.

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(Bad example, as the majority of my roses has rust.)

The publishing of the material in order to deliberately provoke "problems" is difficult in practice, but the best way could be self censorship. (Needs a better educated mass.)


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Tanker,

Are you a paid up member of UKIP, the BNP or both?

the leaders of the western world have let down there people big time when are they going to take action to stop the muslims taking over the world .
because that is what is happening .it is time to take back the west and deport those that want to harm the west . our leaders have no balls .
and if you did NOT know the muslim countrys are at WAR with the west
time the west took action . instead of turning a blind eye

I am A TRUE TORY and was proud to say so .but this pair of wimps have turned my views vote UKIP OR BNP. for a tory to post this it is bad news for a once great party .
that these liars and wimps have destroyed. mark prithard says he is a right wing
then it must be at football . he is a total wimp .a 5 year old girl as my balls.than this shower in power.

Tanker.

This coalition cabinet is just a bunch of immature, under-educated self interested, politically naive, posh boys and girls.

They don't analyse their "bright" ideas before rushing to the press. That is why they will be remembered a U-turn government and failures.

But the UKIP and BNP have the same traits, but in diamonds. (Personally, preferred Spades.)


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Back, to the charts.

Don't know why I feel so reluctant about taking a few more gambles in the market?

fred it will end up with a WAR of the west verses the muslims it is just when.