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Courtesy of dogbawls on the iii bb SEO are hosting at the Sustainable packaging forum in minnesota USA on 28/29th Sept.along with Tetrapack, I think this maybe old news but nonetheless if they are over there selling their wares cannot be all bad, After saying all that, these are certainly nail biteing times,Anyone buying now may get a very good result,as for me,well I'm screaming abit but have held in and out since 2001 so will hold on now.Regards to tonyrelaxes, runnett on iii, all the longtermers and Good luck to all holders.

Been thinking.
The only reason I can now really see for the removal of the Asda reference from the site is that the contract is now no longer applicable.
That can only mean that either Asda have walked away (but no RNS so I think not) or the contract is up (ie first machine is in).
What i could never work out was why the contract in the first place?
I mean, all it said really was "go on, as long as it takes no longer than a year, we promise you can have the first one". So why bother?
trying desperately to think of balanced answers for this but the only ones I can come up with are generally positive.
1) WM do not want Asda to hog it for a year. They want to be straight in and doing the same in WM stores. (I wish)
2) SEO are negotiating from a position of strength. they have others wanting to come to the party and have told Asda that exclusivity is now out of the question, but they will allow them to be the first.
3) Asda have gone all bloody minded and decided that now everything works they want to starve SEO of potential business in order to get a better deal. 12 months without cash generation, or the prospect of it, may make SEO cut the price, in order to get it moving.
Anyone think of other reasons for the daft contract in the first place?
Alan

Alan,

A bit far-fetched maybe, but could there have been a typo in the website announcement and instead od '2 months' (the expected extension) someone put in '12 months' by mistake and possibly made other errors? Thats a possible reason for pulling it a day after it was put on.

As you say, the 'ghost' announcement makes no sense. It merely says 'you can have the first one.' And if they were saying that, why have the time limit? 'You can have the first one' would have sufficed.

Alan ..... surely just as an RNS would be required if ASDA had walked away, one would equally be required if the first machine was now installed ..... both pieces are price sensitive

thought I would let you all know.

Watch out for an RNS this afternoon or after trading.

Please do not ask me for any other info.

Thats the confusing issue. Though it could be argued that since the contract has been mentioned in many RNS, there would be no need to RNS an inevitable first stage.
After all. A manufacturer who gains a contract to produce a million widgits, and makes this public knowledge is unlikely to RNS the first onee off the line.
Dunno.
Alan

Knowing that ASDA is going to walk, and the formal declaration that they are walking are two very different things. People close to the board could easily be suspicious of a possible situation without the company being forced into issuing an RNS.

I dont think this is a concern though. Its the question over operating cash thats concerning.

nor I ...... hope u have got this one right ..... though my money not involved as you know, i take no pleasure at all to see others lose theirs .... to be honest, i feel it more unsettling than not if an RNS is to be announced after hours, if that info is accurate.

Roll up, roll up for the great SEO book.
The odds for todays RNS are as follows;
4/7 We need more cash
11/8 Confirmation of the ghost web story
3/1 the first machine is in
4/1 Asda have left the building
8/1 No RNS issued
12/1 WM have ordered
12/1 Ciggy filters sold
12/1 Perseco have ordered
14/1 Bar

Just had another thought on this.

Once a solid deal is signed with ASDA, it would seem pretty likely WM would adopt Greenseal too. The decision will be made by WM for ASDA, not by ASDA, IMO. Hence once the decision is made it is likely to be a decision that WM will also also take Greenseal.

This means that WM's competitors would know in advance the route WM were going down in the States.

Is it possible that any deal is therefor being delayed until roll-out in the States to WM is ready so that an announcement relating to both WM and ASDA could be made at the same time, hence taking away the advanced warning WM's competitors would have if the ASDA deal were signed first?

According to another BB a poster has been told Martin Wagner is in the States.

I'm going for:-

3/1 the first machine is in
12/1 WM have ordered

I'll have a tenner on 'More Cash' please Alan. I wish I could push the boat out and put down twenty but after this month, I daren't!!

;) Ah good old Yorkshire humour, keeps us smiling even in our darkest hours!

in the past this SP has always gone up if good news is pending, someone somewhere always gets the nod, SP going down, not to hopefull myself. AMO

Worryingly, Pinnacle posts an RNS is out today and suddenly the sells are pouring in................HMMM.
Still, my chart shows me up 141150% on PCM today so I'm laughing.
Thats right, isn't it? What? Whats a consolidation? Oh Bugger..............

Alan,
I think the contract was needed to tie both Asda and Seo in.
It would have been a very risky 12 months if there had been no contract as either could then just approach another package innovator or package user at any time.
The exclusivity period suited Asda as it gave them the benefit of a lead on their competitors. The advantage to Seo was that they would not be able to supply sufficient machine adaption technicians to satisfy any other potential customer (as it turned out they had under estimated the time required re the Asda conversions as is was) so the deal suited them also.
You don't go looking for potential customers if you can't supply them with the goods.
To have an exclusive period, without said contract, I for one would not have been happy.
As to Walmarts possible link with Seo coming good, as Walmart own Asda, I cannot see how an exclusive contract between SEO/Asda would impede any deal.
Who would try to invoke any clause keeping Walmart out, not SEO or Asda, and of course any contract can be re-written if all parties agree.
As to Point 2 in your post (ok it is the best scenario) it does make the most sense.
Point 3, I feel is less likely. Asda also need to move quickly re environmental issues, also the time span lengthening will also cost them money. In the very cut throat world of the supermarkets, they must try to stay ahead of the competition.
If only we could get sight of the initial contract, as I am sure there are restrictions into avoidable delays on both sides, if not it's not much of a contract. So if Asda procrastinate without a valid reason re the commercialization I am sure Seo would invoke any clauses.
If anyone out there has experience of business contracts, their input would be appreciated.
Of course we could both be way off the mark.
Cheers Greek.

Martin Wagner is in the states. I was told by Sylvia this morning. Also recall someone posting over weekend that he was there but what specifically for we have no idea.

oblomov I had the same thought as you re. post 18287 in that Walmart may be delaying to announce a global rollout but thought that it could be a little too optimistic to hope for. An update on US Greenseal trial would help matters here.

Greekman. i agree that procrastination would be covered by the terms of the contract, but so would specific performance, and that is where the grey areas could be.
We should remember that the English language does not lend itself very well to contracts (though it is better than any other), and Asda would be safe in the knowledge that they could argue any point they wished, witha much bigger and stronger legal team, while SEO were getting more and more desperate to move on. It would be the old who blinks first game. if I were SEO CEO and had the choice of a 3 month delay and 250000 legal bill or taking a 500000 hit on the contract I know which i would take. Small companies are forced into this all the time by the big boys.
Anyway, i consider it the least likely of the 3, so it is probably academical.
Alan

Although the drifting sp seems to point to a different outcome, I still believe that SEO has sufficient 'irons in the fire' to be capable of delivering a pleasant surprise long before it has to seek more cash to fund ongoing activities. I am concerned about this company but not worried about it.

I'm offering a very generous 1000/1 that the RNS is a link up with ULT to supply their anti-depression software to all SEO holders.....;-)
Alan

Alan

I have ALL my SEO shares on that.

The oily one

With regard to Pinnacle's claim to know that there is going to be a RNS later this afternoon - I think he hinted at after the close - I can't see the sense of it.

If there is going to be a RNS release why shouldn't they wait for tomorrow morning as they normally do. What's the benefit of a release after the close today?

Any comments?

The oily one