Has anyone got any ideas why VLR continues to fall? They are one of the few Fuel cell company to have actually successfully comercialised their product and the potential for future growth is huge.

Rumours usually start somewhere!!!

On the move up once again after the retracement

UPS (Added by Master RSI on Tue 15 May 01:37 pm)

VLR - Mid 26.25p
Reason - Retracement after each rise and now into an UPTREND, Indicators now rising from oversold. Company has cash close to share price and the Fuel cell has successfully demonstratedthe working of a complete prototype system

Is now on the move up with volume as there was a "T" trade of 80K

Is now continuing with the rise

online prices
buy 28.50 for 5K full price on small size

sell 26.50 for 25k premium and size

Thanks for the update - with regard to your last post could you tell me what that signals/means?

Yes, a nice little move up today. It would be good to see that continue tomorrow.

G D Potts

online prices is the real prices for buying an selling, instead of bid/offer

when is not posible to buy in big size it means the Market Maker are short of stock so do not want to sell too many at the price

so the oposite is on selling, they give premium 26.50p, when bid is 26p and big size 25K, so they want your stock.

Very positive on the trading front

MMs hod back on the bid yesterday, after the large seller, but today they let it go from the start.

Looking good on the L2, but so far is not realized on reported trades.
Could be another "T" trade?

An encouraging update just released today:

Voller Energy said it has achieved its Q2 2007 milestone by installing prototype 1kw fuel cell systems in all three of its target platforms - construction site cabins, sailing yachts and recreational vehicles.

The company reiterated that it is on track for commercialisation of systems by the end of 2007.

An encouraging update just released today:

Voller Energy said it has achieved its Q2 2007 milestone by installing prototype 1kw fuel cell systems in all three of its target platforms - construction site cabins, sailing yachts and recreational vehicles.

The company reiterated that it is on track for commercialisation of systems by the end of 2007.

So good it got posted twice!

Just bort in queen1, can you explain why cfu seems to be better supported, vlr looks too cheap to be true?

Anyone any idea what the unit price of VLR's power packs will be, i.e. will it be competitively priced c.f. mobile generators etc??

No idea silvermede - but if their tryig desperately to make it as competitive as possible then i doubt it will be priced to far over exisitng similar products.
Suprised the SP hasnt reacted more positively to the news - would have expected 25%.

Hi,

OK, just got back from the product launch/demo at Swanwick Marina.
It was a well-organised affair, with plenty of Voller staff there, in company polo shirts. They had laid on drinks & canapes, so the whole thing had a professional feel to it.

There was a steady stream of visitors, who seemed to be mostly from the press & industry. So the main purpose of this event seems to have been to generate publicity & commercial interest in the finished product.

Firstly the RV (Recreational Vehicle), was a 260k monster American motorhome - the type with slide-out sections. It has a Voller 1kW unit installed in the rear boot. I didn't particularly dwell on this one, as personally I don't see the RV market as being prepared to pay the 12-15k cost of the first units.
But this could be a future growth area particularly in the US, for top-level RV's.

The marine installation interested me the most, as a boating chap myself. And this looks to be a big market for the fuel cells, IMO.
Guests were invited to step on-board & see the 1kW Voller fuel cell in operation. It was installed in one of the side compartments on deck, and is a fairly big unit (a bit smaller than 1 metre cubed roughly I would say).

We've discussed noise of the units before here, so I raised that issue with Voller. Basically it makes a noticeable humming noise, but that is purely down to the air cooling system. Boat owners will be familiar with the bilge air pump that you switch on for a minute or so before starting your engines. This is to remove any gas/fuel vapour which may have accumulated in the bilge area of the boat, that could explode when you start the engines.
Well the Voller fuel cell uses the same air cooling ducts & motors to cool itself, so it just basically sounds just like a bilge air pump in operation.

They explained that there has been no particular attempt to remove the air pump noise, as it's a relatively minor detail that can be engineered out in due course. The main unit itself is silent, so I don't see noise as being an issue.

Certainly there is no comparison at all with a diesel generator - the Voller unit is much quieter & there is only a very slight vibration.

There is a big weight saving benefit (of around 200kg) compared with a diesel generator as well, so that should appeal to the racing yacht fraternity, where weight reduction is crucial to winning.


As regards cost, what Voller is saying is that the capital cost of installing a Voller fuel cell is higher than a conventional diesel generator, but if you look at the lifetime costs, it works out cheaper.
This is because the Voller unit has no moving parts, and requires no servicing (other than changing a filter once in a while). This compares with the considerable amount of servicing of a diesel generator.

They also say it is much cheaper & more efficient on fuel than a conventional generator, because rather than wasting power, it switches on & off to top up batteries.

The product is being launched at trade shows in November 2007, and shipments start in Jan 2008. Production will initially be low volume at Voller's Basingstoke premises, but the intention is to sub-contract production out when volumes rise.
I got the impression that short term profits are some way off yet, and that it all really depends on being able to generate enough customer interest.

Fairly risky as an investment then, as it's always been, but for 6m mkt cap my feeling is that the company is intrinsically worth more than that to an acquirer.

I chatted to quite a few of the Voller staff there, and one of the technical people made an interesting comment that, as far as they are aware, there are no other companies targeting the same niche as Voller - i.e. fuel cells powered by readily available Calor Gas.

Going back to the marine installation, on a Beneteau boat purchased by Voller. This boat will be used to constantly do PR & drum up sales orders. They have a guy who comes from the boat industry who is working on promoting this area of sales, and he sounded upbeat about the sales opportunities. There is apparently quite a bit of interest already emerging from the marine industry.

We touched on emissions too. Apparently the Voller unit emits about the same CO2 as one person breathing. Not bad going. So it's clearly a very green product, which in these days where the middle-classes are all trying to be "greener than though" can't be a bad thing.

They reckon they can move up to 3-5 kW products in the next couple of years, which is getting to the point where you can power an entire house. There is a huge potential market for this in countries where Calor gas is widely used to power home heating systems (e.g. Southern Europe).

They pointed out that for every kW of electricity generated, a Voller unit generates the same amount of heat. So it can be used to provide electricity and heating/hot water for various places. All fascinating stuff.

So overall, I came away with the feeling that the company has made massive strides in the past 18 months since I've been a shareholder (100w to 1kW working units), but that commercial take-off is still clearly some way off.

That said, the same is true of the fuel cell industry generally, yet there are some amazingly racy valuations elsewhere. So we only need a bit of that to rub off on Voller for the mkt cap to multi-bag from a 6m starting point. That's why I'm here as an investor, in a nutshell.

Just my personal opinions, DYOR as usual.

Regards, Paul.

paulypilot - 11 Jun'07 - 19:11 - 2190 of 2198


Hi,

Oh forgot to mention about the other Voller unit, installed in a little portakabin things, that apparently are used as a small staff room on building sites.

That one was also pretty impressive. It seemed a lot quieter than the one on the boat, possibly as it was housed in a separate compartment. I didn't notice any noise or vibration at all in the main area of the little portakabin thing.

Apparently it runs for about 3 days on one cylinder of gas & provides electricity & heating. There is no maintenance required, other than changing the gas bottle every few days. Again they say that the lifetime cost will be actually lower than a diesel generator, whilst admitting that the initial capital cost is higher.

I'm wondering if it might be worth Voller teaming up with a leasing company to hire the products out for a fixed monthly fee, rather than requiring customers to fund the capital cost ?? Just a thought.

Voller said that a diesel generator would cost about 4-5k, but require about the same amount per annum in servicing & fuel costs. He says that the Voller unit is much cheaper, requiring virtually no maintenance, and being much cheaper on fuel. So the lifetime costs are lower, so they claim.

If that is borne out in practice, then the commercial case for using a Voller unit becomes a lot more compelling than we perhaps thought.

Safety - because it uses standard Calor gas cannisters, there are no safety issues other than for any other gas-fired appliance. So Giltspur is quite wrong in suggesting that there are special handling issues for the fuel. There is nothing of the sort.
It has also passed the approval process, and is type approved for sale.

Voller are confident that they have strong Patent protection for their Reformer technology (i.e. converting Calor gas into hydrogen), and their control systems. So there could be significant value in these Patents, were a competitor to find them an impediment.

All very speculative, but it's nice to see a Blue Sky company actually demonstrate a working product that's on-target time-wise, and ready for commercial launch. Yet the technology is valued by the stock market at nothing.

Regards, Paul.

Paul - thank you for such an excellent and fascinating post on your experiences at the product launch. I think you've summed up extremely well the inherently risky yet exciting nature of VLR and its product porfolio. canada1 (welcome on board!) asked a question earlier today about the comparatively lowly valuation and I think you've covered that well in your post. The market hasn't valued the technology yet and if (or more hopefully) when it is fully proven, shares in VLR should motor through the roof. This one really does have the potential to be very big and as its products are intrinsically green we will all be able to feel very pleased with ourselves on many fronts as the company goes from strength to strength.

Thanks queen1, I'm thinking of selling now I know why the price is so low, pp must have too many shares.

We'll just have to hope that no other companies come up with a better solution in the time frame - i.e 2 years of high risk until product becomes comercially sound.

Am happy to hold but will also be investing in ITM soon, think they're close to a bottom. Bought Ceres at 99p a while back and sold a few months back so hopefully we're in before the rest on this one.

Good post Paul - have spoken to a few sailors myself who trialled a fuel cell in their boat a few years ago - with very poor responses. All hated it. Lets hope this does not impact their receptiveness to Voller's ideas.

Any idea on the progress re. the military application of Voller 's products, i thought this could be one of their most profitable markets. If we're killing people we may as well do it without creating emissions.

I'm in ITM as well G D Potts although unfortunately not at these low prices. Both firms have excellent prospects and neither appear to be fly-by-night blue-sky chancers.