Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

I was taught to examine my food before I put it in my mouth and swallowed it.

The same applies too much of what is posted on this thread.

I think I spend more time questioning and challenging false beliefs or conclusions, rather than defending "my" undeclared opinions.

was unaware that i ever did ........ have been working and also pretending to do so by the pool in 42 degree heat!

having a closed mind, does not prevent someone being intelligent ...... fred just chooses to be tiresome which is a shame ......

if he bothered to ditch his socialist nonsense once in a while and post something non-partisan, then he'ld be worth reading
however, he admitted at some point that he had no wish to write balanced opinion and that is something in which he succeeds summa cum laude

How do you defend undeclared opinions , if people haven't heard them declared , if you see what i mean , ( i have been in the sun ).

Manuel.

You do repeat yourself,

Habit of the wandering old.

-=-==

I don't feel the need to defend what "I think".

Also, don't think my beliefs are or should be universally held.

But I have been around long enough to see things come and go.

Intelligence has nowt to do with it!

Once a Red always a Red!

Well there you go , I personally think the EU is bad for Britain I really fear for us and many other countries too . I find it unbelievable that anyone favours it in the slightest .A unified Europe maybe but this is getting out of hand . The stuff i'm seeing and hearing about the way its run is demoralising .

Vicky,

"I find it unbelievable that anyone favours it in the slightest ."

That to me could be read as "perjorative" and "disparaging" of those who hold such views.

Using absolute terms, which suggests anybody who holds that opinion is less than credible.

It is a throw off, but is not debating the others argument, but the other person character.

-=-=-=-===

That is what I dislike about media run politics and Crosby and Cameron smearing
of opposition figures, but not countering and defeating their arguments.


Not saying that is a virtue only of the right wing in politics and certainly I have some pleasure in using it as a tool.


But it is one of the reason so many are dissalusioned by public debate and politics.

Suggest having a viewing of:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-36306438

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-36306438

World on the Move: Richard Dearlove

Former British secret intelligence chief Sir Richard Dearlove speaks as part of the BBC's World on the Move day.
Share this story

Well if you explain to people what your point is on each subject you may get their approval . On the first bit i didn't think i was addressing a Court , if you have to go to that level it's not worth it is it .

It depends on what you value.

I did have a view of the debate re Richard Dearlove and basically as i have thought the Turkish situation is possibly a future massive catastrophe for EU . It was all very polite as these things tend to be but he came across as someone who is well aware of the EU's faults and failings .

Yes.

But it would seem sensible to address the problems of the Eu sitting at the table not walking away.

But, personally, I can't see Turkey being admitted to the EU as a full member within the next 10-15years.

But you cannot load them with all the problems in the ME and walk away, especially as many of the problems were provoked by actions of the "West".

Call Me Dave has been sitting a various tables for the last two years.

What has he achieved except a total humiliation?

On balance, I think he did a good job. They were never going to give him much. No one else would have got more.

Much as you might not like Trump he is right here ..

18. The world would be better off if Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddhafi were still in power. Trump told CNN that he believes the situation in both Libya and Iraq is "far worse" than it ever was under the two deceased dictators. While he concedes Saddam was a "horrible guy", he says he did a better job combating terrorists.

Tramp should blame his fellow Republican Bush then for that one.

So H/S what concessions did Cameron actually get?

Cameron's deal. There are a few technical items as well.

"The references to an ever closer union among the peoples are... compatible with different paths of integration being available for different member states and do not compel all member states to aim for a common destination.

"It is recognised that the United Kingdom... is not committed to further political integration into the European Union.

"Where reasoned opinions on the non-compliance of a draft union legislative act with the principle of subsidiarity, sent within 12 weeks from the transmission of that draft, represent more than 55% of the votes allocated to the national parliaments, the council presidency will include the item on the agenda of the council for a comprehensive discussion."

"It is recognised that the United Kingdom, in the light of the specific situation it has under the Treaties, is not committed to further political integration into the European Union. The substance of this will be incorporated into the Treaties at the time of their next revision in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Treaties and the respective constitutional requirements of the Member States, so as to make it clear that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom."

The Council would authorise that Member State to limit the access of newly arriving EU workers to non-contributory in-work benefits for a total period of up to four years from the commencement of employment. The limitation should be graduated, from an initial complete exclusion but gradually increasing access to such benefits to take account of the growing connection of the worker with the labour market of the host Member State. The authorisation would have a limited duration and apply to EU workers newly arriving during a period of 7 years.

A proposal to amend Regulation (EC) No 883/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council on the coordination of social security systems in order to give Member States, with regard to the exportation of child benefits to a Member State other than that where the worker resides, an option to index such benefits to the conditions of the Member State where the child resides. This should apply only to new claims made by EU workers in the host Member State. However, as from 1 January 2020, all Member States may extend indexation to existing claims to child benefits already exported by EU workers. The Commission does not intend to propose that the future system of optional indexation of child benefits be extended to other types of exportable benefits, such as old-age pensions;

Measures, the purpose of which is to further deepen the economic and monetary union, will be voluntary for member states whose currency is not the euro.

"Mutual respect between member states participating or not in the operation of the euro area will be ensured.

"Legal acts... [between eurozone countries] shall respect the internal market."

"The single rulebook is to be applied by all credit institutions and other financial institutions in order to ensure the level-playing field within the internal market."

Of course a future Labour government might tear up the deal and go for federalism.

It's four years before Labour get near power, If at all.

But that's by the by, those So called 'reforms' need to be passed
by the commisioners and the Judges with a very real chance that
they will be thrown out, will come before any change in government...

I speak for the €uropean Kommission ... Trust me, all will be well !


(just keep sending the cheques)