Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

I have to say the articulate and well informed comments by THE COUNT have highlighted the problems faced in this conflict with great passionfor others to make jokes on this thread is beyond beliefjust look at broken bodies of kids that only know trust
The post by bro sums what most think of your view cartoon boy :-

bro - 11 Jan 2009 22:53 - 151 of 191
Personal view, Gausie, I think the majority of readers read it with the distain merited.

You post a one off incident at a protest march here in your favour and totally egnore what Israel is doing... bombarding Palastine with USA ammo night and day! In fact you go so far as indicate which way people are looking in the film! Do you want some coverage of the Israli missile attacks???? Let us know?

Get real, we are not thick!
--------------------------------------------------
Just an observation.I dont seem to have read any post with you fighting it out in your own inimical cartoon boy way with THE COUNT. I wonder not don't ask me why?

My message.love in a peaceful world.

Morning Isaacs. Sadly you missed edited post. Sounded like Fred might have had a good one. He didn't confuse you with Ruth.
It was Hilary.
But you got the rest right. She is the one with big knockers who has a thing about dogs :o)

Why was I confused, Chocopops?

Summat to do with personal reality I think, Hiltops.

--->IainT

Thanks Iain, I've made the necessary adjustments.


--->GAUSIE

Thanks too Gausie.


Regards,

THE COUNT!

---> THE COUNT

Well I gave it a whirl ;)

Why do we feel so comfortable criticising Israel, but we never mention Hamas?

Oppppppps regroup!

http://fun.mivzakon.co.il/flash/video/2664/2664.html

choccie ...... i would have no problem criticising Hamas if the roles were reversed ..... while i would by no means condone Hamas's rocket attacks, it seems to me that not only is Israel's specific reaction disproportionate, but i also find Israel's general stance and attitude towards the Palestinian people as oppressive ..... if Israel gave up their settlements on West Bank as the UN has instructed, or even went some way towards it, then they might have some moral ground on which to stand

Cynic, I agree with you. I condemn some of the "daft" actions of the "Palestinians" in the past.

But this is where we are:

Extract from Voice of America yesterday.

Israeli Bombing Continues, Palestinian Death Toll Tops 900
Voice of America


By Luis Ramirez
Jerusalem



12 January 2009
Israeli warplanes have been attacking the homes of Hamas leaders in Gaza, during the 17th day of Israel's assault. Palestinian medical officials say nearly 900 people have died in the attacks, which are showing no signs of letting up.
The fighting between Israeli forces and Hamas raged on, as thousands of Israeli reservists entered the Gaza Strip.
Israeli ground troops battled militants in house-to-house combat, edging closer to the center of Gaza City.

Israel's attacks on Gaza appeared to be less intense, with military officials saying they carried out fewer than 20 bombings - compared to as many as 40 per night during the past few days.

Disproportionate?

Peple keep using this word. What does it mean in the context of responding to thousands of randomly targetted rocket attacks onto civilian villages and towns?

What would be a proportionate response? Do you recommend that Israel send thousands of rockets targetted indiscriminately back into Gaza? Israel tried to 'turn the other cheek' for the past 8,000 attacks and it got them nowhere.

There is no such thing as a proportionate response to terror attacks. What would you suggest to be the proportionate response to 7/7, 911, Bali, Glasgow etc etc etc?

Gausie, No I suggest the negotiating table and both Israel on Palestinians trying to stick to the contracts.

Look at NI. A reasonable negotiated settlement has led to a relatively peaceful NI, with benefit to the majority of the population. There has been "foolish" incidents and the criminal elements would prefer to return to the violent confrontation. Their attempts must be thwarted, but not by bringing in the "troops".

Hopefully, the future in NI will be peaceful.

Fred - negotiation? Israel only left Gaza a few years back after negotiating an agreement that would end rocket attacks. Fat lot of good Israel's concessions did that time around. And what is left to concede in a negotiation after they evicted settlers and completely withdrew last time around? Maybe a new prolonged occupation will give Israel a bargaining chip with which they can try a new negotiated settlement.

You ever heard the expression: "you can't negotiate with terrorists"? This is a classic case in point. Yet Israel keep trying.

Gausie ... the quotation is, "The difference between a wife and a terrorist is that you can always negotiate with a terrorist" ...... get it right man (lol)!

Gausie. I think at the moment the statement should read "Israel is Trying"! Bloody Trying!

Perhaps even "Trying Blood"!

Choccie: So you, like me, are a Spectator reader, then? That's us both marked for life on this thread at least ;-)

--->GAUSIE

Israel itself was created via the use of terrorism, so I'd be careful on how you selectively use the term. Previous Israeli leaders like Ariel Sharon and Menachem Begin were terrorists themselves. Menachem begin was happy blowing up British soldiers in the process....not just dirty Ayrab villagers.

And thanks for Israel being so 'understanding' that she actually forced, what were actually just a bunch of Israeli SETTLERS out of the Gaza strip.

SETTLERS....you do know the meaning of the word don't you? What were they settling exactly? What the hell were they doing there in the first place? Were we really meant to sympathise with them?

Oh, and over the week they were being evicted, how the propaganda machine here in the west went into overdrive regaling us of endless tales of woe on every news broadcast of those poor Israelis being evicted from 'their homes' in order to let those 'dirty terrorist' mussies in instead...oh, how reasonable was Israel being? They were ILLEGAL SETTLERS for fuck's sake....by any stretch of international law.

Yeh Gausie, I bet you felt really glad they were evicted didn't you?

But let's talk about how wonderful and serious Israel has been about getting peace in Israel/Palestine shall we?

While the Palestinians were trying to negotiate peace settlement after peace settlement, the US administrations still couldn't stop Israeli settlements spreading on the West Bank let alone further land seizures within Israel proper. How unreasonable were those dirty Palestinian terrorists, eh?

Negotiating still, despite seeing daily, new settlements going up on the land under negotiation. What other political group on Earth could have accepted such conditions to negotiate under...yet out of pure desperation, they still tried to do so? Some terrorists, eh?

Since 1967, there have been 223 Jewish-only settlements and outposts built on confiscated Palestinian land. Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

Since Sep 2000 and excluding the present conflict, 1,050 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis against 123 Israeli children by Palestinians. Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

Since Sep 2000 and excluding the present conflict, 1,062 Israelis and at least 4,876 Palestinians have been killed. Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

Since Sep 2000 and excluding the present conflict, 8,341 Israelis and 33,034 Palestinians have been injured. Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

During Fiscal Year 2007, the U.S. gave more than $6.8 million per day to Israel and $0.3 million per day to the Palestinians. Presummably, they at least gave a little morsel to the Palestinians in their capacity as 'honest broker' in this conflict (yeh right!). Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

Between 1955 to 1992, there have been at least 65 UN resolutions targetting Israel and the Palestinians have been targeted by none. Israel is always happy to mention the one resolution of the UN that legitimised it, yet has ignored all others since. Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

I have already said, in a previous post, that 1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 10,756 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel. Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

And again, I have already said in a previous post, since 1967, 0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 18,147 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel. Yet you label one side as terrorists, eh?

Perhaps it's time to start conceeding that they might just have a grievance, rather than just simply labelling them terrorists and being a further mouthpiece for the Israeli government, and stop the killing of a relatively defenceless population which, in itself, will just create yet another generation of 'martyrs' who will rise up and strike against Israeli targets and more worryingly for me, targets here in the west.

Israel is powerful today...and excessively so...but what a way to go on living...in the hope that Israel will always continue to be disproportionately powerful. Always is one hell of a long time.

They could instead start to stop labelling a whole peoples as terrorists like you have done, and start to allow them some basic dignity and human rights rather than shove them in the narrow strip of land that is Gaza, creating the most densely populated region on Earth, and then further blockading that so that they can't even live a pitiful existence in what is effectively a prison camp, and then cry wolf and bomb the shit out of them when they try to fight back by launching their own rockets, and further try to justify this by saying that they operate using their own people as shields.

If Hamas were such terrorists, why don't you tell us all just how many rockets they launched against Israel during the year long truce...a truce in which Israel still continued to blockade Gaza in a stranglehold it did well to survive in.

They are people too....deserving of some basic human rights, and a massive wrong has been done to them for over 60 years now. They too make great mistakes, but it should still not excuse what is happening to them at the moment.

I think we both know that the truth is that the present Israeli government is worried about elections coming up and chose a 'perfect' period in which to carry this out whilst the USA is in a transition between presidents.

I still like you though, but you make it extremely difficult sometimes. :-)

Oh, and as for that other little video just posted, I am still contemplating whether I should take quite a few more hours out to rip it to shreds, frame by frame, but I am once again under threat from the tax commissioners for a 125 daily fine for not doing my tax returns so I think I'll have to stay clear for now!!!!

Regards,

THE COUNT! .

Ta COUNT!!

Lovely rhetoric.

I believe your principle point (which you make beautifully) is that in your opinion it is Israel that are the terrorists and not Hamas.

But, what's in a name? I don't mind whom you label as terrorists and whom you label as innocent victims. I also don't see what difference it makes to the current conflict.

If you feel that Islamic fundamentalism and the palestinian terror it exports to the western world is soft and fluffy then that's your perogative.

If you're more comfortable getting on a plane with a dodgy looking Palestinian than you are with a dodgy looking Israeli then again that's up to you.

You are entitled to whatever opinions you wish to have, however distorted and silly they may be. You're even entitled to believe Spurs will win the premiership this season. Doesnt make any of it true though.

Vive la difference.