for more information about stanelco click on the links.

driver's research page link
http://www.moneyam.com/InvestorsRoom/posts.php?tid=7681#lastread
website link
http://www.stanelco.co.uk/index.htm

Cant understand investors piling into these no hope stocks when you can buy good snall companies around with better prospects and making lots of money now.

An example is EKT market cap only 13.5 million and has been making millions the last few years so much so the nett asset value has increased 7 fold. Its got net cash no intangibles and pays a dividend as well. Red Hot Penny shares has a price target of 25p as against 17.5p to buy. Check out the EKT thread.

"market cap only 13.5 million"... "making millions the last few years"

If it has been making millions, got net cash, no intangibles and pays a dividend and I assume, has wonderful prospects, why is the market cap only 13.5m?

The oily one

Hi all

MadPad. It sounds like you are talking about a specific product's own packaging - not the bags at the checkout or for the Pick/weigh your Own fresh Fruits and Veg.

OK, the bag or the bag materials are made in Italy (going there next w/e). Was it used for other products? Where were the apples produced & packaged? What sort of bag was it - cling wrap? or loose fill? or tray and cover?

I will reserve my initial thoughts until I hear. I hope you don't get indigestion from the apples!

Google has a number of pages on " Mater-Bi R ". Not ploughed through to see if it is from a subsidiary of Bio-tec!!

Oily.
Not so sure I like hearing about the stirring in your loins.

Tony ,loose fill organic Braeburn apples grown in New Zealand,packed in Italian GM free bioplastic.I said a few weeks ago that Sainsburys were totally commited to GM FREE even in their packaging ,HERE'S THE PROOF.Before any muppet asks the apples were great,now I wonder are they tax deductable being part of my research.

Master-Bi R is made by Novamont, who have been in the bioplastics field for years. I'm not sure that it can be thermoformed or extrusion blown like Starpol.

It's PLA by a different name. I can only guess that to satisfy sainbury's GREEN (LOL) concerns, the source material is GM free. They've got a variety of bags and other productsd similar to SEO (worrying) .
http://www.biorefineryworkshop.com/presentations/Bastioli.pdf#search=%22Mater-Bi%20R%20bioplastic%22.
LIKE I SAID, HAPPY TO HOLD. SEO NEED TO DELIVER.

Stanelco know Sainsburys have a GM free policy so why arn't they selling a GM free product to Sainsburys ,how come they have been pipped at post by an Italian co,who now have a foot in the door to sell other GM free bioplastics no doubt.Iwill endeavour to find out the answer.

Now heres a thought. Sainsburys have started using the Italian stuff. Yes its compostable and yes its degradable.
Is it Biodegradable and what are the composting conditions? (I don't know either). If there is a multilateral approach to sustainability, then surely Asda will be saying that non bio is worse than non GM. I am certain this was argued over 12 months ago. The upshot is that while SEO can quite easily change Starpol to non GM sourced for anyone that wants it, our Italian friends are going to take an awful long time to turn their product into a biodegradable one, that doesn't have to travel too far and can be used with greenseal / thermoformed / blown etc.
Put another way, if Sainsburys like the Asda stuff and ask if they can have non GM, the answer is yes and there are a couple of ways to do it. If Asda like the Sainsburys stuff and ask can it be made into trays and used on GS and be made biodegradable and meet the composting requirements and be supplied locally, the answer is yes, but can you give us a couple of years to develop it and put the infrastructure in place.
The Italian stuff sounds like a multitude of others that exist, and no doubt it has its uses, but on balance GS and Starpol still seem the better alternative. Its just that SEO need to offer the GM free alternative rather than trying to talk their way out of it. It exists, and for a supermarket of Sainsburys size, there would be sufficient quantity to allow their own production of the PLA needed. The cost would be higher but Sainsburys are obviously comfortable with that because they are no doubt paying over the odds for the Italian stuff to be GM free.
Finally, as Tweenie says. Its GM free and we can only guess it comes from non GM crops. As Terry pointed out to me, Starpol is officially GM free even though the crops that make it are not. It may well be the same with the Italian product.
Alan

Alan starpol maybe "officially" GM free but that is not good enough for Sainsburys,they have told me so.They need to be sold bioplastic derived from non GM crops.Forget all the arguments about the starch loosing the GM signature etc etc.Until they change their policy that is the way it will remain,THEY ARE THE CUSTOMER,and the suppliers must adapt to their needs.

have to agree with Alan. I see all this as only positive for the long term success of biodegradeable packaging. When PLA is sourced locally (europe)- the chances are it'll be GM FREE anyway- for UK market -so it's a win for SEO. As S'POL is greensealable,suitable for MAP (UNLIKE PLA) or non MAP applications, can be used for liquids etc- it's another WIN WIN for SEO.
I think the opposition will catch up but not in the next few years. If SAINSBURY's et al are that concerned about the environment (LOL, i fell of chair) as opposed t0o being the greedy money grabbing , life destroying, corporate 'bankers' i believe they are then they will put their money where their profit is . i.e. greenseal and starpol.

I really hope Starpol is ahead of Mater-Bi. Have a look at the name of big boys in Italy and in Europe already buying Mater-Bi from Novamont:

As from The Novamont website:

Elenco delle catene in cui i prodotti in Mater-Bi sono disponibili:

Italia: GS/Carrefour - Esselunga - Finiper - Il Gigante - Coop - CD'oro - Famila - Despar
Europa: Sainsbury - Tesco - Albert hein - Coop Norvegia - Migros

Maybe Stanelco has a lot to do to catch up with Novamont.

...and Mater-Bi wich is biodegradable (as stated on the web) can be used:

. Vaschette termoformate per alimenti (frutta, verdura, carne, etc)
. Film trasparente per il confezionamento di frutta e verdura

. thermoformed FOOD TRAYS (fruits,salads,meat, etc)
. blown into clear films

Sounds a big threat to our starpol!

MP,
Not disagreeing with you, just stating that it can be sourced from non GM crops.
A further question is now begged from the latest round of posts;
If Master-Bi is all that it says and has been around for some considerable time and is used by all these supermarkets, then why is it not used more greatly in the UK and USA??
Are we to believe that the UK and USA have never heard of it? Or is it more likely that it has serious drawbacks that are not apparant from our limited knowledge? Remember, while we crack on with green issues and the like, that is second to the biggest concerns of the supermarkets. Look, shelf life, seal integrity and sellability.
What I am saying is that if it seals 1% worse than conventional packaging or has 1% less shelf life, or is not available in a completely transparent format or one of many other things, then supermarkets will reject it out of hand, even if it is endorsed by Greenpeace!!
If it was as good or better than Starpol, Asda would not have wasted 18 months and God alone knows how much money trialling GS and Starpol. They would be aware of Mater-Bi, and would have tried it. Perhaps they have and did not like what they saw!! Add to this that if Starpol had the same qualities as make-up as Mater-Bi SEO would not have got the patents on it they did, then we have a persuasive case for it being fundamentally different. Better or worse, I do not know, but if it were better then we go back to the question of why it is not a supermarket standard.
Still not moved by this. It may be competition, but it may be competition in the same way that using paper to wrap veggies etc. is. Its definitely more environmentally friendly than the current plastic, but it may not fit the bill elsewhere in the list of criteria.
Alan

Yes we don`t know what is better; just want to point out that if Novamont states on its website that Mater-Bi is avalaible in: GS/Carrefour - Esselunga - Sainsbury - Tesco - Albert hein... it simply means they are alredy selling it and before them the same did Nature W. with its PLA.
Probably there is a risk to be left behind competitors which already produce and sell their product. If the money to be raised are to finance the production of starpol, it would be better to ask for funds as soon as possible because someone else out there, is more active and faster than Stanelco.

Apparently Mater-Bi is similar to PLA, and is permeable. Starpol currently is made with PLA and is non-permeable and, therefore suitable for MAP packaging, which is the market that Starpol is to be used.

In order to overcome the arguments about GM, I wonder if a version of Starpol could made using Mater-Bi. You would then definitely have a GM free version of Starpol.

Kind regards
Raymond

So there we go. Mater-Bi is no use for MAP packaging. One of the huge selling points of GS / Starpol is the longer shelf life and therefore reduced wastage. The trade off is that one is from GM free sources and the other is not. Sainsburys have made their choice, for the moment. If things were different and Sainsburys did a cost / benefit analysis, and found that GS / Starpol (GM Free) was a little more expensive but would increase shelf life to the point where wastage was reduced by a small percentage, they might be convinced.
Asda are arranging a sustainability conference which Sainsburys are attending. SEO will have the chance to argue this case there.
Anyway, the SP does not yet reflect an Asda contract (cos it aint happened), so I am not worrying too much over whether Sainsburys are interested or not. If they were, then that would be a major bonus, but Asda / WM should be taking priority right now, not trying to get a foot in the door with Sainsburys, until the bigger fish is caught, landed, gutted and GS wrapped in Starpol!!
Alan

Nothing from Oily today.

With flowers and chocys last weekend, he is clearly doing something better than me!

He must have now got lucky with that stirring in his loins...

Oi you, you mind your own loins, you cheeky bugger!

I'm not revealing what effect flowers and chocs have on my loins. If I did, you'd all be at it!

The oily one

PS Still concerned about the potential market for non GM starpol etc that seems to be passing us by.

Watch this space.

I'm watching.

From what I have gathered from digging and e-mails , is that SEO are aware and dealing.
This suggests an european source for PLA for those wanting GM free.
Hope this healps.