yuff.

Surely SW getting the boot is going to be bad news for shareholders, he holds so many that he will start dumping again, it's going to take over a year for him to get rid of his stock.

If TAD are a good bet then maybe he wont want to sell them straight away, after all they do owe him something like 15p per share. I am sure even Stig of the dump wont want to lose that much!

Looks like the initial reaction is a positive one.

M

mackem
I think SW is a loose cannon and is out to get what he can and us the shareholders need to stop him. He isn't worried about the sp only what he can get out of it. I think he thought he could get the whole company on the cheap either by kicking DL out or diluting the sp to virtually zero and then getting his vc buddies to buy the whole thing.
DL cottoned on to this and thats why he spat his dummu out, what he didn't bargain for was Nildes getting 10% support to get motions on the EGM for him to be kicked off the board.
He can hold the EGM over the company but it just gives the other 280m shares to side with the action group, all in all I see SDW either a accepting a performance related salary at the AGM next year or trying to buy the SD which I think we shouldn't allow.

ML
I don't think SW needs 15p a share he got them for nothing and any price is ok to him. 20m shares if Tad start performing will get eaten up easily.

yuff

Personally I am all for going the whole hog now and getting rid of SW and JD. Best to take the rotten apple out of the barrel.

M

Posted on thr TSG board by Nildes, long but worth a read.

M

Nildes,



I penned this a week or two ago, but sat on it for fear of making a fool of myself on the bb. Since I wrote this, posters have alluded to some of these points, eg Beau today.
Dont be silent for fear of making a fool of yourself. You cant acquire knowledge through osmosis, youve got to ask someone!



Speaking for myself here, I am a little concerned that, having no experience of company management, now that I have given my support to the TSG EGM proposals I am not too clear on what happens next should the TSG prevail in a vote.
If we ousted Messrs Westerberg and Dilts in a vote, out third motion was for Lee to appoint several new independent NEDs asap. David Lee would also have to decide whether to continue to allow Steig to run Streaming or to appoint someone else. Getting Steig off the board doesnt instantly resolve all the problems but it does allow the board to function in a proper manner.




I'm running this past you for comment in the first instance, rather than post it on the public boards and risk muddying the waters or compromising anything you or the group may be doing in the run-up to the EGM.
Were not doing anything in secret. Everything that we are trying to achieve is up there on the bulletin board. The objectives of the shareholders group are to disseminate information to as many shareholders as we can reach and to give them the opportunity in having a say in the future direction of the company. The EGM call and issues around who should or shouldnt be on the board are a sideshow, the main event is really about how the company funds its future.



There has been comment over recent months concerning the value of GSD, and the desirability, or otherwise, of letting the streaming side go and concentrating on the Geospatial side. I did not keep copies of, or references to, these postings and many interested parties may be in the same position. Would there be any mileage in re-airing this topic, to discuss the pros and cons of splitting the company? I have no idea how many holders out there have yet to show their hand, but it may help many bb lurkers to revisit the salient points in this period prior to the decision-making process.
Absolutely, debate is healthy and desirable. Perhaps Carta or someone would be prepared to spell out the arguments?



Please don't let this deflect you from the important matters at hand, but comments re any inaccuracies in my take on all this, relevance to the current situation, or anything else, would be welcome.
Weve come a long way together. Were grateful for the support that many fellow shareholders have given us. Id hate us to take anyone for granted. Im answering you here because Ive been asked a few questions similar to yours and this is a quicker way of communicating my thoughts.



A few points come to mind, obviously not exhaustive:-



- Someone, in the past, stated that a SP of around 5p would be fair price for the GSD alone. On last years profit of 0.85m this would mean a P/E of around 25, which may be asking a lot? Hopefully 2005-6 full year profit will significantly surpass 2004 (assuming 2nd half profit is proportionately as good as 2nd half last year).
Its worth remembering that GSDs contract with OS comes to an end later this year. Whether it will be renewed, I dont know. Even so, the constant flow of news suggests that GSD is continually gaining traction in its marketplace. Currently the market thinks that 3.5p is reasonable even with carrying Streamings losses and Steigs antics. So, progressing to 5p after divesting those problems doesnt look to far a leap?



- While the current impasse stems from the proposed method of re-funding the Streaming division, the GSD will also need ongoing research and development funds if it is to continue to stay ahead in the future.
True, and there is an argument for saying that, as a proven winner and money-earner, it is more deserving of continued investment than Streaming.



- How good is GSD? How confident are we that it will survive and prosper on its own. How long would it take to "settle down" and come back into profit?
I think its probably already in profit. I think, judging by the narrative that its well-positioned in its marketplace. I see no reason for it not to survive and prosper.



- Currently, GSD operates under the Tadpole "umbrella". What would be the cost of establishing the GSD as an independent company. Obviously, a new chair, finance director, NED, and secretary would be needed, and one assumes Mark Ketteman and the current sales team would remain key figures in this. Could we put some remuneration figures to the new team. Would GSD still be profit-making at the start of its independent existence?
What would be the point? Its currently an independent division of Tadpole and doing very well. If it aint broke, what do we need to fix?



- Is the current GSD base in Edinburgh exclusive to GSD, would it automatically become the new GSD company HQ? How much of the operation is currently in the USA?
GSD have an extensive customer base in the US. Likewise in the UK and elsewhere. Decisions on where the physical offices are based are best left to the management to decide Its not really a shareholder issue.



- How much would the non-profit making SD be worth? How would the current 400m Tadpole shares be split between the two divisions? Would we be happy to see the SD go for nothing, just to be rid of the problem, or should we expect to have a share in any future profit it may achieve? (I have lost track of the success, or otherwise, of the old Hardware division, in which we were supposed to share in the future profits?).
Whatever someone is prepared to pay for it. Ive no idea. What would you take? $10M? $20M? $100M?
There is no need to split the company or the shareholdings.
If Tadpole sells Streaming, the funds could be held and issued as a dividend, used to fund R&D in GSD or even used to buy a parallel company.
I think everyone wants to realise some value from Streaming. Theres no chance that itll be given away, problems or not.
Theres a chance of funding an investment partner and taking a share of the profits.



If SD and GSD were to remain under the same "umbrella" in Tadpole, with or without SW and JD:-



- What are the alternatives, if any, to the venture capital funding route currently mooted by SW? Posters have talked of finding a sales force that can "sell streaming", as though it were an off-the-shelf product.
Something that Greg Bolcer was having some success in before he was booted out and that Steig has apparently failed to do since he came on board .Its unlikely that Streaming has to funds to bootstrap any more selling effort, they might be able to make the existing structure more effective.
How many Tad holders (and voters at the EGM) understand the nature of software as a product. It has a very limited shelf life, often needs tailoring to the clients system, requires sales-engineers rather than salespersons, needs field support following a successful deal being closed, etc.
Sounds like you have a clearer idea of whats needed than Steig. Hes closed the door on most of that. Do you want a job? 80)

If SD has anything of potential value in the pipeline it will only be of value to a re-organised Tadpole if its creators "stay with it", and do not leave the ship. Do we know anything about the quality of the "worker bees" ( and the documentation eg. Is Tadpole an ISO9001, or equivalent, company?).
The workforce and not the IP is usually the biggest asset of any company. The question really is; are they poor achievers or poorly managed?



- Is there a case for GSD being "ring fenced" so that its profits cannot be plundered to keep streaming afloat.
I would argue strongly yes. GSD has proven itself and gone centre stage for Tadpole PLC. Its time it got the recognition and support it deserves. Its like were so used to failures that we cant recognise success when we see it.



In general:-

- If, as often stated, there are in excess of 20k small investors, the average holding is only 20k shares. Is there any way of estimating approximate figures for, say, holdings >100k, >500k, >1m?
I heard 40,000. I have a copy of Capitas list which lists all of the larger holders. Most of them are nominees but, my guess is that 20k would be a good average.
}

Ml

Couldn't agree more, SW has showed his cards and basically blown it, he should have made sure he had more than 10% to stand any chance of winning, shareholders are in control now, unless he pulls a rabbit out of the hat he will be kicked out by the agm, which could double as an EGM.

Has Steig had a change of heart over

1. Not thinking he has enough support to get rid of the chairman?
2. Thinking he will get removed himself at an EGM if the shareholders group have their resolutions included?
3. All of the above?
4. None of the above?

He will huff and he will yuff,
and he`ll blow his cardy off.
You`ll never beat the yuff`s record.

and that is why we have a soft spot in our hearts for all 96% losers, God love him.

"shareholders are close to the 39m shares needed to add our motions".

er quite, flushed with success then ?

no cartoon please snap, too much information!!!!

If the `revolting ones`, get their 10% to (at some time/never) call an EGM, the average holding is -allegedly- 20k shares, but several have boasted (guffah) of holding 1m,
Let`s guess that they are the vociferous 20 or so, so prevalent on bbs.
Twenty people then chuck in THEIR twenty million shares to vote, lets say 20 more with 500k each= 10m more, and 20 more with 250k each=5m ,that is that is 60 people with 35m shares between them, add another , oh lets say 50 with the average 20K,
BINGO an EGM.
Unfortunately for the Gang we live in a democracy- do you really think that Company Law allows 100+ people, who own 10% of a company, out of a contingent of 20,000 shareholders to virtually take over the management of a company worth (allegedly) around 16m?

You really must get some legal advice, or read a book- totally bonkers.
Next step- getting 75% of the votes to vote out a director, dear oh dear.

Poor old yuffer/puffer has thrown out his dirty cardy with his wallet in--ohh!!
Still , we can all hold out the hand of friendship in this Xmas period--

"Lets wish old yuff a Merry Xmas, and hope that he and ML will be very happy in their ` relationship`, I hear that respective wives are a little miffed, but , hey , this is 2005, and they must understand"

I give you a toast to` Yuffer and MLuffer`, the two BB intimates of the year, a relationship made in????? -wherever!!!!!!!!!!!!

Snappy

No 2 as Austin would say!

Austin7 is better,

yuff- yuffyuff!!!!,

lol, such a shame the poor old sod, no memory left at all, except about `B movies`, ah well, it couldn`t happen to a better person.

Hey blinger/olie-did you see me on the box last night-ain't I just a pretty old gal?

Well it seems as though SW has a fight on his hands-my money is on there being a settlement behind the scenes.
I still say SW should be voted off and once DL get a new NED on board this will happen.

Rather a sudden reversal in the sp this afternoon - serves me right for getting slightly optimistic - kicked in the teeth again !

lol pach

do you cover motoring law by any chance?

Has Steig been dumped yet?

not yet MM

what should be worrying Tadpole holders is what will happen if Steig gets dumped, will he in turn dump his shares in an unforgiving market.

snappy

More than happy for Steig to get the boot which is looking more and more likely.
He ain't going to get much for 20m shares at this price m and if he thinks his life's work is worth 150k good on him.
GTC
Stop flirting with blinger you know if he gets too close to Jamie's mum the sparks could fly now they have both admitted their problems!

There goes the GEM 1m then, 2p soon

lololol!!!!!!!!!!

No EGM told you, not by the cardies, that is for sure.

Poor old yuff and at Xmas too , more losses, does the brain hurt as much yuffer????