Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

The luvvies’ Brexit letter only shows most people vote with their wallets

Simon Jenkins

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/20/luvvies-brexit-letter-eu-largesse


That our lucky stars of stage and screen benefit from the EU’s largesse should hardly be a clincher for anybody else


Friday 20 May 2016 10.07 BST




Clcokwise from top left: Benedict Cumberbatch, Paloma Faith, Danny Boyle, Helena Bonham-Carter, Dominic West and Sam Taylor-Wood are among the stars backing Britain to remain in the EU.



Who can possibly argue with 250 luvvies crying, “Remain!”? How can anyone reply when these gods cite everyone from “the Bard to Bowie” in their cause? They carry into battle Richard III, Sherlock Holmes, Elizabeth Bennet, the Red Queen, the Olympics, Love Actually, a dozen Hamlets and even the dear old Queen. They are actors, novelists, writers, directors, celebrities, names, all names, big names (who got left off?). The EU may be facing the darkest crisis in its existence, but never has it received such a dazzling testimonial.

It is indelicate to ask how an Equity card conveys authority on target two balances, optimum currency areas and the sheep-meat premium. But as Brexiters cite Napoleon, Hitler and “250 businessmen”, so remain’s signature harvest can rally celebrities to its flag under the golden rubric, “vital EU funding”.



Virtue by association is standard practice in lobbying. The UN and NGOs garner celebrities on the reasonable assumption that a headline with pictures does no harm and may do good. But in a debate now as hysterical as Brexit, it’s hard to see how 250 actors rate higher than 250 teachers, social workers, train drivers or waiters. I am sure the same might be said of commentators, except that some of us do at least try to read up on the subject.

A few lucky people have done well out of European subsidies. There is no reason for such subsidies to be decried. But that lucky people benefit from Brussels’ largesse is hardly a clincher for everyone else. It is also absurd to imply that British actors excluded from the EU would be “outsiders shouting from the wings”. Most do far more work in America anyway, which is outside the EU’s open borders.

They are hardly outsiders in Hollywood. These are bad, silly arguments. There is no open EU market in services and that is a fact. It is one of the EU’s many failures.

The luvvies’ letter, like those on both sides from sportsmen, scientists and cheap-jack employers, merely shows what we know: that most people vote with their wallets. Political argument is easier when couched, not in facts or predictions, but in fears and favours. We search the news for signs of comfort, not for reasons. When Montagues and Capulets meet at the street corner they do not swap statistics. They puff up their finery. They boast their allies and show their muscle.

Remain’s purpose today is to show the Brexit tribe as a bunch of outsiders, small guys, nobodies, people who cannot dream of “vital EU funding”. This can cut two ways. Perhaps Brexit should hit back with a letter from 250 people of whom nobody has ever heard.

2517GEORGE Send an email to 2517GEORGE View 2517GEORGE's profile - 21 May 2016 14:00 - 2072 of 2075

How convenient Fred 6 years ago, why not during the period your Labour party was letting in 2 million migrants with their open door policy.
2517

=-=-=-=-=-=


"215"

I am repeatedly informed that the con party can walk on water.

They have been in power for the last 6 years and if they had invested at the beginning of that period in the "infrastructure", even if that is subsidising "wages" it would have been better than paying "dole".

The economy would be in a better state.

Examine the "employment" and production figures, etc. carefully.

They may convince you, but they don't convince me.

MaxK - 21 May 2016 14:14 - 2075 of 2076

The luvvies’ Brexit letter only shows most people vote with their wallets

Simon Jenkins


Have a look at that "gentleman's" expenses claims.

I think a spell at HMP would be appropriate for him.

"John Mcdonnell targeting 100,000 council houses a year"

sounds good of course, but how would it be arranged, from where will the land be acquired and who will do the building .......
further, who will be eligible for these spiffing new homes? ........ those who have been contributing to the uk tax system for years, or those poor sods who just arrive homeless on our shores?

answers on a postcard

Austrian next president may well be from the far right Freedom Party

Reason?
90,000 or 1% of the population claimed asylum there last year


The current Hungarian gov't is also well to the right, so all sorts of interesting and potentially disturbing happenings beginning to arise across Europe


Merkel's 2 weeks of open-door madness is likely to have far-reaching, long-term effects

Well it seems who cares cynic , it all gets pushed aside for all the luvvies and builders who just think of themselves . Just wait 2 or 3 years down the line .

That Benedict Cumberbache sent a letter to Dave telling him he was concerned for the British countryside and buildings that they needed protecting , and there he is supporting possibly the biggest threat it will ever face , two faced tw@t .

I see the pathetic Haystack is back telling us what's guaranteed to happen , probably on to head office every morning with his latest forecast .

Your best agreeing with will i am or he'll start frothing at the mouth .

I think Hays has been outed... a trojan horse.

He always was.

His stated love of Call Me Dave should have tipped a few off to which way he leans.

Victim
Stop talking like a victim.

A minimum target of over 240,000 new homes a year is policy for all major UK political parties, dating away back before 2000. This is not something dreamt up by the EU. A blind rider on a galloping horse can see demand exceeds supply. It's not an in or out of EU consideration.
Just because you are comfortable in your palace doesn't mean we should now stop building houses for others.


Cynic
I agree. New council homes are badly needed. Since the right to buy something like 1 new council house is built for every 1500 sold off.
We are the 5th richest world economy so we can find a way to build them.
Surely one of the measures of a sustainable economy is that it is able to house the population in affordable homes.

David Cameron's disgraceful dishonesty over the EU is turning Britain into a banana republic

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/05/21/david-camerons-disgraceful-dishonesty-over-the-eu-is-turning-bri/?ref=yfp

I do like Cameron very much and I think he has been doing a good job. I wanted a Conservative government and predicted a majority. I think he got the best deal that was available in discussions with the EU recently.

However, I will still vote out.

Don't confuse my wish to leave the EU with my belief that the vote will be to stay in.

I had dinner last night with some Italian, Spanish and French friends who are all restaurateurs or who used to be. There were twelve of us and I was a lone voice wanting to leave the EU. It was interesting to hear the European point of view. They have all lived in the UK for many years and most now have dual nationality. They all want a federal EU and a United States of Europe.

Many Europeans are happy to have open movement and migration. They see themselves as European and not Italian, French etc. and not bothered about having their cultures diluted.

In the UK, we are very different from mainland Europe. Although it was 11 to 1 for staying in, the vote round the table was 12 to 0 that we would vote to stay in. Towards the end of the evening the discussion started to involve other tables and some of the staff. There were others who agreed with me and wanted to leave. A poll of the restaurant, including people who wanted to leave resulted in 100% believing that the public would vote IN.

Haystacks..."I do like Cameron very much and I think he has been doing a
good job. I think he got the best deal that was available in discussions
with the EU recently"


'Call me Dave has done nothing but break promises, do 'U' turns,
make constant sound bites, LIES, DECEIVES, and uses fear and
scaremongering...

Obviously some people are oblivious to the Bloomberg speech
that cameron made, when he defiantly declared that if he didn't
achieve his objectives then he would'nt hesitate to recomend to
leave the EU.

When all the preening and blustering was done and 'DAVE' came back
waving a piece of paper declaring triumphantly his success at negotiating
his 'reforms'...When in reality they were all empty watered down
unimportant tweaking...

If it wern't so important I'd be laughing my nuts off.....

That's it then. A multinational bunch of diners has decided. Let's hope that they are so convinced that they don't turn up to vote. Despite the Polly Toynbees of this world dismissing the Brexiteers as only having immigration in its locker, many are against the affront of an unelected european commission that originates all the laws and a jacked-up nobody called Junkcer - just Junk to those that know him, threatening us if we dare to vote out. Reasonable immigration is good but the wage differences between the UK and the former soviet controlled countries is simply too large. That clearly is a major draw to the UK, with the attendant pressures on housing, doctors surgeries and schools. When we vote out, that is not going to stop but it will certainly slow down.
The scare mongering about the £, prices etc is simply just that. Sure, there will be some wobbles where the usual culprits will make a lot of money but things will settle very quickly and we will be proud we did the right thing.

If the country are foolish enough to vote to remain, and the economy in the
EU continues to stagnate and if the UK do avoid being dragged into a
slow down, then even those so called 'highly skilled', or university educated
who think their jobs are safe might have a rude awakening if those 'highly skilled'
from struggling eu countries decide to come here and start taking their jobs...

But then again these very same people will just up sticks and move to countries
like Australia, NZ, USA...So its all right for them jack.......

Watch out Granny's boy and Vicky.

Every one gets to vote. The country decides.
If the majority vote in, that's it. You got to have your say, the majority disagreed with you. What's foolish about that.?

David Cameron : "Turkey joining EU is not 'remotely' on the cards"


Ho no..Then why is he giving 2 billion euro's to help fast track them into the EU????

He's a lying deceptive piece of s***.....