for more information about stanelco click on the links.

driver's research page link
http://www.moneyam.com/InvestorsRoom/posts.php?tid=7681#lastread
website link
http://www.stanelco.co.uk/index.htm

Oblomov,

First welcome back. Still nail biting times.
As to my post re Rockwell Solutions.
It is yet another example of the many similar products now out there compared to when SEO first mentioned packaging. I still think that in many ways that such products can be used, SEO are still out in front, BUT the lead is narrowing.
Supermarkets will only be driven by legislation and profit. The only way the green issue is a factor is due to none compliance costing them and if they don't change customers money will slide elsewhere ( so yet back to profit again).

I don't think the news re Rockwell, is really bad news, its just that any additional competition keeps that clock ticking, but it has to be taken in context with my first paragraph.

As to the prospectus...it was nice to see all the possible obstacles that may come SEO's way, without anything being glossed over. Hard facts for a change.
I am still SEO positive but my confidence I admit has been severely dented during the last 3 months as I am sure most have.
Greek.

oblomov,

I respect your answers, and the time taken to do them!!

However, I know a little more than you do- dare I say, and the contracts are dependent on finance.

Also greenseal does work as I have seen it and talked to the people who are going to use it.

We may all be surprised by who we see on the new shareholder list and the broader the list is the better.

Have a little more faith - I know it's difficult after seeing the price collapse from 28p, but the future this company has could be quite startling.

It is always difficult to bring products to market - they are now ready and I am confident that you will change your view in the coming weeks.

pinnacle,

I respect your posts and sincerity BUT
'I know a little more than you do' - 6-8 weeks ago I was invited to join a 'delegation' from this thread to visit SEO. I couldn't make it at the time, but three people went and one of them shared the experience with me by telephone and possibly with others. I hope I'm not breaking any confidences here - I dont think so.

If you take a look at the threads from around that time you'll see a lot of 'I know a little more than you do' posts - many here will probably remember them. I contributed to them. I genuinely believed 'I know a little more than you do'.

6-8 weeks down the line, I dont now think I did 'know a little more than you do', and I dont think the three attending the meeting did either, and I suspect they know that now. What we knew was what SEO wanted us to know and what they wanted the three to share to bolster shareholder confidence. I believe that this BB was being played like a fiddle (and I chose that analogy purposely).

If the knowledge you have that is 'little more than you do', was really important, it would have been released as an RNS.

I'm sure greenseal works, but I've heared it is slow compared to conventional methods. Does it work well enough to compete with conventional methods, and if so why hasn't it been taken up despite ASDA's statement 18 months ago that they expected 200-300 conversions within the year?

I've not seen anybody else challenge the strength of the IP or even consider it - yet it is the one most important factor between success or failure! A little late now, maybe, but I wish I had suggested to some of the shareholders on this BB that we took an independent appraisal of the IP.

Faith is something I've never been good at, especially when it comes to investing! The share price collapse isn't my major concern - check back over the posts and you'll see I've said that before and was rideculed for saying it!

What I am concerned about is:-

1. The lack of follow up to items in RNS's which at the time of the RNS made SEO look attractive. e.g. GS conversions, LOI's, contracts 'about to be finalised'.

2. The failure of SEO to answer questions on those items when asked by shareholders. I recently asked a perfectly reasonable question about the way the Patent schedule was laid out in the prospectus and received a totally unhelpful reply. I deduced from that that SEO do not want us to ask questions about patents.

3. The apparant weakness of IP.

4. The fact that contracts were iminent, didn't happen and then we were presented with the 'rescue package' which seems to me like a desperate last-ditch attempt for survival, without any real substance. 5 weeks ago we were close to 2 contracts being signed - the leak to the Times even mentioned it - now there are NO contracts in sight!

5. The excuses. It never seems SEO's fault that there are no contracts. In the case of GS it was the fault of the industry - not SEO. From the prospectus 'The delays have primarily resulted from the limited capacity of the food packaging industry to facilitate the conversion of machines.' The scene is set, presumably, to blame SPHere for the failure of Starpol to be taken up.

There is no doubt in my mind that what we have been witnessing in recent weeks is a fight for the survival of the management, not a fight for the survival of the company leading to profitability. A year down the line I expect to see more carrots and more calls for investment.

I believed in this company until recently - I now have the feeling of waking up from a long sleep.

Oblo,

Nice to have a reality check. I too thought the bb was regressing to the 28p rampy mode!

The LOIs IMO {guess} would have been dependent on finance as SEO were looking to split the cost 50:50 with the JV partner. The estimated cost of a MMP was $7m. The stated 2.8m for each MMP equates to ~$5m, so either:
a) The cost of building an MMP has fallen {not likely}
b) The cost of building an MMP has risen {possible}
c) The split has changed {possible}

Since the LOI announcments we have had news that there has been a falling out between SEO and Sphere. Most likely because SEO would benefit from the lion''s share of the revenue.

Oblomove
good to read your posts, i once thought SEO was best thing since sliced bread but have very different opionion now, won't be selling but wont be buying anymore either until orders are forthcoming
good luck all

Oblo,
been out all day so this is the first chance I have had to reply.
I did spell out the way i had arrived at 5p, and I did apologise if I sounded PM1ish, but I cannot escape my maths.
The LOI are indeed dependant on finance and the RNS states specifically that they are raising money for them. It would be misleading in the extreme if the finance were not for that. There is no reason it should not be. Though I cannot say why, I can say that I know WM are interested and wanting to try Starpol ASAP. You will have to take my word for that.
Each plant would be for a minimum of 20000 tonnes. That is RNS'd. I have every reason to believe that the ones subject to the LOI are larger. When you add a PE to this of reasoned proportions you will arrive at 5p. I have taken no account of GS or of potential. I have also chosen spring, based on a reply to my e-mail to Asda, which announced March as the start of their big push to "green bin friendly" packaging.
I have every reason to be confident of the prediction, and you will note it is probably the first prediction you have read from me that wasn't toungue in cheek.
As for my friend at Asda, I have not seen him since very early in September as the cricket season is long over. I had no reason to doubt him then and i have no reason to doubt him now. The only way I can be certain of his accuracy would be through an RNS, which is unlikely because it is unneccesary and SEO have stated that they will no longer issue "hyped" or unneccesary RNS, or by visiting and examining every Asda store in the UK and finding some GS products. He was, and is, in a position to know exactly what was going on and has no motive I can see for giving me poor information so I will continue to believe it until it is proven wrong.
Anyway, I do not disagree that we are in the wake of broken promises and shattered dreams, and I bow to your superior knowledge on the IP, but I do think that early November will see developments that might restore your faith.
Chin up,
Alan

oblomov,

Thanks for the post.

Time will answer whether you are right or I am.

Not long I think.

Enterprise value 987m ? LOL

Oblomov,

As a final comment on the matter - I am in the food industry and I can tell you that there is great excitement with the products Stanelco have.
So any RNS wouldn't come from them would it!!

Everything must be completed in STRICT order and we will see that the wait will have been worthwhile.

As I have said - Contracts cannot be signed until the finance is agreed at the EGM otherwise they would be criticised for jumping the gun - never mind it being illegal.

Surely you want Stanelco to succeed?

Believe me the industry does and the market for their products is huge especially in the USA.

And to confirm: It was the industry at fault RE: Greenseal and NOT Stanelco.

Many companies have patents pending and it does not affect the business model.

The Industry recognises that there is no competition apart from those I mentioned earlier and they are in a different sector.

I am not interested in another long analysis - as I believe in the information I have and as a result ready for future news.

Good debate though!!

Guys, briefly, I respect your comments as ever, but

1. On the question of the LOi's , the fact that they are not mentioned in either the prospectus or preceding RNS leads me to believe they are no longer relevant - i.e. the deals to which they related are not now on the cards.

2. No disrespect to Alan, who I know passed on the comments from his imaginery friend in good faith, but if GS products had been in ASDA stores at the time of the prospectus they would have said so.

Of course I would like SEO to succeed - thats why I invested Around 60,000 in them over the last 3 years. I didn't realise I was investing in a company that would duck and dive like Arthur Daly and put a spin on every RNS to mislead its shareholders, and I believe the prospectus is yet another example of just that!

Morning Oblo,
The prospectus does say the Asda stuff is ongoing and Asda themselves have told me that their own label organic stuff is being slowly implemented with full roll out in March 2007. I beleive the phrase that the money is to commission at least the first 2 MMU's refers to the LOI. My reading (though it may be wrong) is that the contracts are signed subject to the financing and so the LOI are no longer relevant, as they have moved on.
One of us will be right. Hope its me ;-)
alan

Alan, 'My reading (though it may be wrong) is that the contracts are signed subject to the financing '

Where did you read that? I can find no mention of either the LOI's or the contracts - only new plans to build the plants themselves.

And of course the ASDA stuff is 'ongoing' - that doesn't mean much. It can be ongoing forever (and it already seems as if it has!).

I mean my reading as in my understanding. That is why I said it may be wrong.
LOI are factual reporting in an RNS. If they were dropped, then the 12 million or so already pledged and the interest of the froggies and the miners would not be forthcoming. The only reason for not mentioning the LOI in the prospectus is that they have ceased to mean anything. I choose to interprete that as they are now signed, subject to finance. I think the prospectus implies that quite firmly when it talks about at least the first two. It would be very co-incidental if it were a different two, or two was a number plucked at random!!
As for Asda, ongoing means very little taken on its own, but when you add to that Asdas public pledge to make, as a start, its own label stuff come in green bin friendly packaging by March 2007, it adds up. What is implied by the idea that GS is going nowhere with Asda is the idea that Asda have decided to launch biodegradable packaging, sealed in a biodegradable way, without using GS or Starpol and without telling Stanelco to butt out, and that Asda are confident of being able to do this, from scratch in 4 months.
I freely admit that either your case or mine can logically be true, but I suggest that the scenario I propose is more likely, and other well respected posters to this thread have access to info I do not and they seem to think in the same way.
Inevitably, it will be a mix of the two views in the short term, and there will be delays and frustrations along the way. This is SEO after all. But I cannot believe the premise that Asda have dropped it and the LOI parties have called it a day while those privy to clearer information than us have stumped up 12 million. If those were the case, what exactly is there left to invest in??
As always, IMHO etc.......
Alan

Well I'm broke having brought a new house/kitchen/bathroom etc.
Oh and all the SEO shares I own.
Like most, I won't be buying anymore , unless there are deals signed and delivered.
The promise of JAM TOMORROW has left a very bitter after taste.
I think SEO have led us up the garden path re the way the refinancing has been handled.
I had an inkling and posted so several months back. I failed to follow my own instincts and am now sitting on as loss . Still if sp hits 3p I'm back in profit.
5p is reasonable. 28p seem a long way off at present and the 1 party does'nt even bear comtemplating at present.
I'm not as pessimistic as OBLOMOV nor am I from the PM1 camp.
We all know the potential, but only cash pays the bills and puts clothes on kids backs. SO :
SHOW ME THE MONEY , YOU USELESS BUNCH OF SOUTHERN JESSY'S, I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE.
;-)

'HA' 'HA 'HA'.
So I asume you did'nt buy a house in 'Happy Hampstead'.
Good Luck to you and All. SEO should come good.
{I thought "JESSY'S," was a useless Northern name}
Happy Sunday.

Oblo

Appreciate your posts but you do seem to be a little hung up om pm1.
The Board stated recently that 2 major contracts are being finalised. If they're lying then they are a gang of crooks! Seems unlikely.

Patience.

Nice to read some decent debate on a BB chaps.

My understanding of the Greenseal delays can be traced back to failures of SEO Management who either failed to consider the potential difficulties of on-site testing (as opposed to controlled laboratory conditions) or the issues that packagers might have in having to change lines and the downtime this would cause.

The tie-in to ASDA has with hindsight proved to be a disadvantage with take-up / Testing of the GS technology.

Time for a bit of honesty from the SEO board methinks. Just where does the buck stop?

Still in and likely to remain so as a long term hold. The original reasons for me to get in and accumulate over the past 2-3 years are still there, and much closer to fruition, but the sloppy inexperienced management worries me.

The risk reward with this share is keeping me in. Sentiment can change very rapidly in either direction- as we have seen in practice. A few decent deals could really set the fire under the SP again

A bit worried.

halfamil 'The Board stated recently that 2 major contracts are being finalised'

Keep up! That was early in September, then no news and nothing in the Prospectus. The contracts have evaporated like all past SEO contracts. You haven't listened to thing I've said, have you? lol

Alan, 'The only reason for not mentioning the LOI in the prospectus is that they have ceased to mean anything'

We agree, then.

We do indeed Oblo. The only disagreement is over why. I choose to believe that the LOI mean nothing because they have moved on to full formal contracts subject to finance, you believe the other parties have pulled out.
If your interpretation is correct, then why the line about commercialising at least the first two MMU's???
Alan