Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

skin you do notneed any bait to hook CYNIC the plonker

Fred, you have over estimated your abilities in once again!

"The conservative strategy is to set social care at a level that we can afford."

Let us reword that statement to :-

The conservative strategy is to set social care at a level they wish to afford for others, but availing themselves of better care based on the past or present productivity of others.

One of the features of past tory periods even based to some degree on ideology is that they were pragmatic and forward thinking and realised that the good of a nation depended on the good of all members of that nation.

The other points you make have some relevance but the inferences you make are outmoded, or outdated and need to be modified for the more complex organisation of a present day society, which is not prepared to be dependent on the benevolence of those think themselves to be their betters.

Sit back and imagine starting a small company, or business and the different pathway to increasing it size (success).

Think about some of the most successful companies have done it.

Look at Cadbury’s (Taken over) or perhaps Unilever as models for making profits and distribution of those profits.

Think outside your box.


--------------------------------


T,

Suggest wash before you contaminate others.

You are thinking is at the same level as Hays does.

Hays,

I don't think you will, I will try listening to Neil Diamond singing "Slow it Down";

Might mean something to you:


Pick it up. Hurry up son. Eat on the run if you wanna get done.
Greed, speed, where does it lead you?
Wanna succeed? You thinking you need to?
But are you really sure?

It's a lot to endure, but I got me a cure.
Slow it down! Slow it down, yea.
Slow it down.
Take your time and you'll find your time has a meaning.
Easy now.
Catch those sounds of your heartbeat before it's leaving.

Another lyric, which I doubt you will comprehend:

"Home before dark
Before the day deserts me
I looked for my truth
Knowing the truth might hurt me
Been traveling light
Just ahead of the night
To be getting home right
Before dark"

I am all of 35 and only seventeen and been a soldier for a thousand years and the man who must decide who is to live and who to die .

fred - i for one have always been a great believer of profit-sharing with employees, and it is something that we have practiced ourselves for many years ..... of course, we only have a very small number of employees, so it's quite easy to administer as we (the directors!) think fit ..... a bit parochial maybe, but so what :-) ..... of course, employees would not be quite so keen to share the losses in the years when things were not quite so stable!

you're right about cadbury's (and salt's in yorkshire) about setting up betting welfare systems for their employees ...... but don't forget that that was also in their personal gift (not gov't ordained), and was at a time of appalling exploitation and child-labour etc .... whether or not that "welfare" extended to free medical care, i do not know, but i rather doubt it

conveniently moving onto private health care (and schooling), i see nothing reprehensible in it at all .... if you can afford the premiums over and above your statutory obligations, then good luck to you .... even labour has not wanted to abolish that right

no one would deny that the NHS can be absolutely appalling ..... however, it is also true, that in an emergency situation, whether it's terrorist bombing victims or heart attack or similar, there is no difference between the care given or the consultants involved, whether you are a private or NHS patient

can the country afford - or does it even want to afford through massive tax increases - a rolls royce NHS system or even pensions in similar style? ..... the simple answer would be a resounding NO!!

is that fair to the lower (not lowest, who will always get state benefits of one kind or another) income earners? ...... easy to argue that it is not, but i for one am not prepared to tolerate say 75+% taxation levels, and for that matter, nor would 99.9% of other tax-paying individuals

can the system be tinkered with to drag in more revenue - e.g. no heating allowances for pensioners living in spain? ...... of course, but that will not do much in significant real terms, even if it will please certain of those who vote (that excludes you of course)

Fred
Unlike you, I have never taken song lyrics seriously. They are based on thinking of a singer without any credentials to make comments on anything. I am not suprised that you take this form of pop culture as a philosophic signpost. Why not ask Gazza or Rooney for their deep thoughts on life.

eric cantona will apparently let you have them for free - e.g. "life is a sardine" or similar - :-)

Germany rejects Romania and Bulgaria's bid to roam Europe without passport amid fears of 'immigrant invasion'

Romania and Bulgaria expected to apply to join EU's Schengen area
'Germany will veto it and they will fail,' says interior minister Friedrich
Mayor of Duisburg has warned against flood of Romanian immigrants

Only last Friday the left-wing mayor of the former industrial city of Duisburg spoke of rubbish mountains, children of immigrants organised into gangs for stealing expeditions and an apartment block for 200 housing nearly 400 Romanians and Bulgarians.


The Schengen accord allows participating nations to allow its citizens to pass borders without having to show a passport. 26 nations participate, though Britain has always opted out of it due to security concerns.

If Romania and Bulgaria did join Schengen, their citizens would still need a passport to enter Britain, but immigrants would be able to pass through Eastern Europe to countries such as France or the Netherlands, making it much easier to smuggle themselves into the UK.

surely that's not quite the same as "refusing admission" ..... as you say, uk is also outside the schengen agreement and that all it means is that (as in uk) you need to produce your passport at the border .... thus theoretically at least, the criminal element and other undesirables can be turned away ..... this patently does not work very effectively!

Cynic,

"can the country afford - or does it even want to afford through massive tax increases - a rolls royce NHS system or even pensions in similar style? ..... the simple answer would be a resounding NO!!"

--------

I differ, I think the country probably does want both NHS and Pension and "Welfare Care", but don't want to finance it.

There is and always has been a tremendous amount of waste and abuse of "privilege" in the NHS system.

The malfunctioning, abuses and waste have been partially down to constant re-organisation and poor staff relationships between administrators, clinical and front line staff. Each working for or in defence of their own kingdom, or good.

There has also been and still is a tremendous wastage on unnecessary drug prescribing and appliances by those in and out of hospitals.

------------------------

There has to be a rationalisation of what a society provides ie. tax payer provider against receiver, but what appears to happening, or attempted at the moment will lead to more problems than what they are attempting to cure.

Also, the actions of Cameron and crew are decreasing government income as I suggested it would do, back in 2010.

I thought then that cash should have been put in infrastructure projects. Rail, road, airports etc.

The government could have more control over the flow than through the banks and it would have washed through into the broader industries and possibly diluted costs etc..

Money has gone to private "enterprises" rather than state enterprises and then onto private "groups" etc..

Cameron and Osborne remind me of this;

"Isn't it rich?
Isn't it queer?
Losing my timing this late
In my career?
And where are the clowns?
Quick, send in the clowns.
Don't bother - they're here."




-------

Hays,

Why should I ask Gazza or Rooney for their deep thoughts on life when I have your shallow ones to rely on.

Australian miners fired for 'Harlem Shake'

Up to 15 miners have been fired for performing the "Harlem Shake" dance craze underground in an Australian gold mine, according to reports.

The West Australian newspaper said the miners lost their six-figure salaries over the stunt in the Agnew Gold Mine last week.

Yet another set of song lyrics to support his silly point of view.

fred - you're so used to castigating me, that you felt obliged (or even obligated!) to write, "I differ" ...... of course the clipboard-carriers want to protect their empires etc etc, but that is no different from any other walk of life ...... and you even agree that the voters (you being the non-voting exception of course) would never tolerate the massive tax increases required

assuredly there will never be a gov't (except perhaps a double-dose-MT reincarnated) that will have the balls to take the NHS (and civil service and local gov't as other glaring examples) by the scruff of the neck and chuck out all the unwanted and unnecessary dead wood and dross ...... attempt to do so, and you really will have a general strike on your hands

uncle joe would merely have used his standard ploy of "exporting" a few 00,000 to remote gulags ..... in one fell swoop, that would have "cleansed" all the "unnecessaries, and also lightened the welfare system of £bns (ok roubles x 50) of expense

.