Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Fred,

Please don't be offended, but I've got to ask. Do you post as maestro on the freeview by any chance?

:o)

Fred

Please tell me what you think Israel should do to protect itself against any country or organization that has in its 'manifesto' the destruction of the state of Israel?

I would encourage anyone interested in this to have a read at the very thorough Wikipedia entry on 'Gaza'

I also found a very clear article on the current situation, which was written by Martin Kramer at http://sandbox.blog-city.com/israels_gaza_strategy.htm

And of course, since Hamas are in power somewhat illegally, then any negotiations with them also have an undesired effect of legitimising Hamas.

Importantly, one of Israel's prime objectives is to de-legitimise Hamas and get rid of them. Kramer's article does a good job of explaining as to why this is the case.

Fred (or anyone else), my question was: "Didn't Israel withdraw from Gaza a few years back, after promises that the rocket attacks would stop? Looks like they got done over."

If that's true then Hamas haven't kept up the payments and it seems repossesion is in order.

Skinny, Meant colluded. Have edited.

Hilary, No I am not Maestro. But the level of you argument on other threads suggest that you remain Hilary.

Stable and Exec have a look for a starting point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

and see the mandates which have been ignored by Israel.

That underlies much of the discord in the Middle East plus the imperialistic attitude of America and the West to a lesser degree.

Gausie
Hamas was a democratically elected government which did not suit America or Israel.
The economy of Gaza has been strangled by Israel and USA.

Even if you don't agree with the positioning of Hamas, you have to recognise and negociate with them. They are representative of a large portion of Gaza.


The initial government of Israel was made up of "terrorists".

Fred
as expected u do not answer the question, and revert to old chestnut about un resolutions, which we have over the years recognised that they have no importance to those of many nations who wish to ignore them, not just Israel.
I want to know how You would deal with the situation that Israel is in. If Hamas has no intention of recognising Israel, how can Israel recognise and negotiate with Hamas?.

No nation will ever stand idly by and allow an illegal organisation to daily fire rockets at it's population. Hamas are indiscriminate in their targetting and care little for civilian casualties on the Israeli side of the border.

Whilst it may be that Israel's response is heavy handed, the targets they are after were sited by Hamas in densely populated areas, which means they are either ridiculously callous or naive to the absurd degree if they thought that the Israelis would not go after the firing platforms irrespective of location.

Hamas could stop firing the rockets, but they seem hellbent on escalating the conflict, presumably in the hope that others will be drawn in, are they acting as puppets for Iran?

Stable, by sitting at a table and talking with (not to) the leaders of Hamas. Both sides of the table compromising for the benefit of the people bototh groups they are supposed to represent.

This is preferable to sticking to the bigoted ideology, which is prevalent at the moment. Also recognising "bullying tactics" used by Israel and America are not sustainable. This is the recognised opinion of the majority of the world opinion. Hence the general world outcry.

It would also need aid to enable the Palestinians to have an economically viable, independant state. This would have to be supervised by the UN.

That would mean stopping the abuse of the UN by members of the Security Council by its members.

There has to be reform of the UN. to give it authority,

Wildrover, Let us have a clean fight. Palestinians can use swords while Israel can use guns.

I think part of what Hamas is up to, is bringing attention to the world to it broken economy, due to strangulation by Israel and also bringing attention to the mandates which Israel continually ignores.

It is difficult to condone the Palestinian rockets, but it is easy to understand why the resort to them.

Iran, What a shame America couldn't impose a "democratic" government there.

"It is difficult to condone the Palestinian rockets, but it is easy to understand why the resort to them."

Fred - I dont think you've yet made a single convincing argument - and this one was probably the worst of them all.

ps - did you wish to declare an interest?

Fred you have lost the plot (again). One moment you criticise the US for 'bullying tactics' the next you want them to impose a democratic govt in Iran (or did I miss the sarcasm?).

The reason Israel will not negotiate with Hamas is well know to most, but seemingly not to you?

Gausie, The initial government of Israel was made up of "terrorists". Eventually a large number of countries, recognised and dealt with. I suggest you engage a little grey matter on ;-

"It is difficult to condone the Palestinian rockets, but it is easy to understand why the resort to them."

I am sure if you try harder you will understand that comment. If not I feel sorry for you.

Yes, I have an interest. I am saddened by the wanton destruction of the infrastructure and killing of one population or race by another.

I think the Jews with their past history of Germany in the late 1930s and WW1 and previous episodes in Russia, would have learnt something other than to mimmick their oppressors.

Many Jews disagree with the present Israeli actions.


But mind you Gausie, there might be some economic benefit for those financing or benefiting from perpetuation of the Middle East problems.


PH, Apologies, I keep on forgetting your obvious limitations.

Oh dear. Let's try one more time, with a paraphrase:

"It is difficult to condone the Israeli bombs, but it is easy to understand why they resort to them."

Again, Fred, just how many terrorist rockets would you allow to be fired at our population before you decided you'd better try to stop it?

Fred - its the line: 'easy to understand why they resort to them' that I struggle with.

Was it a typo? Did you mean to say 'impossible' where you wrote 'easy'. Or do you really have empathy for that statement? Do you honestly mean that in the same circumstances you personally would arm yourself with high explosive rockets and fire them indiscriminately into Israeli towns and villages?

Fred, your analogy of a boy with a catapult and Hamas' indiscriminate use of rockets to terrorsie the Israeli population is quite frankly pathetic. I can only assume you would be happy for a terrorist organisation to drop a few bombs on your house or that of friends and family because by their own actions have become oppressed?

Hamas is committed to the destruction of Israel (as are other countries and organisations). It's a little difficult to enter into any sort of dialogues until that intent is rescinded. I suggest you read the article posted by Exec (and others) to gain some sort of perspective. Despite my limitations, it is easy for me to perceive that as usual, you are portraying yourself as somewhat restricted in your thought process. Those chips must be getting very heavy ;)

Gausie, with the same history as the Palestinians, it is quite likely in my youth that I would have resorted to the same actions to draw attention to the obvious abuses by various Israeli governments.

Look at some of the Israeli terrorist in the 1940 especially Ben-Gurion's actions in the period up to 1948.

If I was in the same time warp, as some in Israel seem to be, with an eye for an eye ideology, I would use as many rockets as it takes to draw world attention to the ceaseless abuses of UN mandates.

oh dear. I thought as much.

So you do, in fact, condone the rocket attacks.

If you were my neighbour and used this sort of physically violent armed response every time I had a loud party, or a guest of mine parked across your front drive then I'm afraid you wouldnt last 5 minutes. Physically attack me or my kids with lethal weapons then I'll do my best to restrain you. And if I couldn't restrain you and you continued to be a lethal threat then I'd quite happily rip your throat out - and no court in the land would blame for doing so.

OK Fred I think they have had the worlds attention for at least the last week on a grand scale ... so why are they still firing the rockets if thats all they were after ?

Lost any sympathy I may have had for them.

Gausie, You have espoused your values and limitations. It seems you have similar moral stances as the present Israeli and Hamas leaders are demonstrating.

By the way, you challenge me earlier with do you wish to declare an interest.. I have replaced did by do, but the question is still pertinent.