I am someone now into their 40th year, and feel we are losing it in this country. 1 Million reasons why. But i think our no1 failure is for some of us (not all, some are brilliant) have lost the ability to work hard and work properly, to many excuses.

Did anyone hear the very sad story on radio 5 live on J. Derbershire show this morning on the events that followed his son being killed in the Eygption bombings at sharm el shiek last year. The foriegn office and government ministers should hang their heads in shame.

An elederly relevative has at to sell her home for full time care due to alzheimer's. The first 2 homes wanted her out within 2 days because they could not cope even though they were being paid 500 quid a week. This could be absolutely any of us reading this now in the future. Is this the way we treat our own in Great Britain??? What do these homes want to do for 500 quid a week.

If we are great please explain why!! Would love to hear your stories why you think/know, like me, we are going down the pan.

some interesting replies, zscrooge i thought i was the p*ssed off bitter one, lol. ax - spot on,
al - im a thick brummie so know dont the latin.
scrip - again spot on, i remember going to spain in my early 20's and couldnt believe i could get a drink at any time during the night, twenty five years later and i can now do it britain even though i dont feel like doing it anymore.

One of my deepest regrets in life is in helping the undeserving - professionally and otherwise. All those exploited and stolen efforts, sacrifices, time and goodwill could have been spend on helping the genuinely deserving who are often trying very hard not to trouble others and not complaining.

So, be careful out there. But double the efforts to help the good guys. UK will be better for it.

axdpc - 13 Mar 2006 19:51 - 20 of 24
kivver, "lost the ability to work hard and work properly". How very true ...


How hard do day traders and other city types work? Big fat bonuses for what exactly?

zscrooge, not sure about "city types with big fat bonuses" but IMHO independent day traders, risking their own money, make a far more honest living than some who draws a steady salary with very little risk and little work!

And some people may have decided to start working for themselves because they are fed up with others, who had not partake in fair efforts and risks, insisting and scheming on sharing in the fruits of their hard work.

A more appropriate description than kivver's "lost the ability to work hard and work properly" would be "never had and never will have the intention to work hard and work properly.".

...

Only IMHO :-)

axdpc,
Agree with that last bit. I still argue that it all comes down to pride.
As a nation we have no pride in our heritage, no pride in our nationality, our locale, our jobs and ultimately in ourselves. We have been browbeaten into being apologetic souls, and constantly apologising and excusing leads to poor self value and self worth.
I am not asking for everyone to be massive egocentrics, but we have a right to be loud and proud of everything we are and everything we did.
yes its Tory rhetoric of the worst kind, to ask for a return to the values that made us Great, but we are an extremely moderate nation, and leading the world once again with that kind of moderation would not be a bad thing.
Examples stem from the top, and the top of our tree at the moment is full of leaders who have to make vacuous promises and half cocked attempts at policy in order not to offend the media. While this makes them appear shirkers and shysters, the nation will see this attitude as a route to personal success.
Pride is the missing ingredient.
Rambling, but I hope you catch my drift.
Alan

One in four people in work in the UK are employed by the public sector. One issue you have in the Uk at the moment is that those in the private sector who have no security are being asked to prop up a massive spending splurge on the uneconomical and unproductive jobs for life and massive pension rights public sector.

Alan, yes, I got the drift very well.

In most areas, we have sheep who follow bosses who set potent examples of
"Do as I say, not as I do, or else ...".

Extra efforts to "love thy neighbour" and help a few good men/women sounds like an excellent idea.

who were/are the best cleaners in nhs hospitals, the old direct workers or the new private contract cleaning firms.

Who was best, the railway system or new more private system??? ps i dont know the answers, do you????

Depends on your measurement of "best".
If by best you mean the job done to a reasonable standard at minimum cost then private, as it does not have the shackles of an overly corrupt beaurocracy hanging over it.
If by best you mean the job done to a high standard regardless of cost then the old systems.
However most people chase the impossible dream of a perfect job at almost no cost. While ever we pursue the impossible, and bleat at every 1p on tax, we will have a cheap job done.
Remember the old saying. I can do it quickly, do it well or do it cheaply. Which one of those don't you want?
Alan

To add another side to the debate.

Has the universal suffrage outlived its usefulness?

did anybody see the hidden cameras on telly where they filmed a contract cleaning team in the hospital. He cleaned a toilet with a toilet brush then cleaned the sink with it.

Just five experiences this month to show GB can still be great

- Boiler service man apologizing for arriving 2-3 minutes outside the half hour window.
- Taxi driver opening the door and carry bags for an elderly to her house.
- School children saying good morning.
- Shops give the correct change.
- A few litter that appears after rubbish collection soon disappeared.
...

kivver (ref #33).

Just another symptom of how one is judged and treated by one's wealth rather than how that wealth was obtained and what one does.

55011, not outlived but suffering from neglect and damaged by mission-creep.

axdpc - 14 Mar 2006 13:57 - 26 of 35
zscrooge, not sure about "city types with big fat bonuses" but IMHO independent day traders, risking their own money, make a far more honest living than some who draws a steady salary with very little risk and little work!


It's a tough life risking one's own money! Day traders are little more than upmarket gamblers, a sort of middle class bingo, with little interest or care in the companies they deal with and no interest in wealth creation other than their own. It's tough reading those charts, shuffling money around electronically...etc etc

If Labour want to sort out the mess with MRSA in hospitals why don't they just stop the tendoring out and have it done in house. They've got the majority. Are they scared of the reaction by the right wing press, being labelled anti-business, and would the hospital staff need more money, less time spent doing something else to have the time to do the cleaning?

zscrooge, by a broader definition, some people can argue that all finanical institutions and financial related activities (accountancy, lotteries, insurance etc) are not welath creatiing ... Financial trading is probably fairly closely ranked to gambling along side
horse racing and buying lottery tickets. All of which, IMHO ranked about average/mid-point in honesty and honourability. Look around one's own working environment and I am sure you can spot a few people, some may sit in plush offices by themselves and others otherwise, who are going for an easy and very profitable ride at the expense and sweat of others. Or people knowingly selling shoddy goods and services?? How about hose conning people out of their savings?? It is far more honourable to win on the lottery.

It is unpleasant, unproductively and dangerous to work with, work for or employ those who wants a fair day's pay but does not want to do a fair day's work.

Sinttserf, last week, Herald reported on some extra 200+M for NHS consultants but none for the patients. The House of Parlianebts cleaners had to fight for a year(?) to get an extra 1 or so an hour increase.

OK, it is on the front page of The Herald for Thursday March 9.
"Extra cost of consultants' pay: 235m. Extra benefit to patients: nil" (for Scotland)
"Auditor reveals total bill is nearly four times the orignal estimate."
...

So perhaps cleaners didn't get a rise, or ot a rise at the expense of patient care???
A bit of complicated issue.

Been reading a book on corporate frauds and it is funny how, by comparison, some CEOs and directors felt they need million dollar salary AND multi-million (sometimes hundreds of millions) in incentives, options, performance bonuses and rewards to be motivated.
If it is true, then I don't think many cleaner can be motivated by the minimum wage or an extra or two per hour.

I wonder whether executives and politicians will find it easy and stress-free if they have to clean other people's toilets for several hours a day, 5 days a week ...

59% of new money for the NHS went on wages, 15% on medicine, Hmm.

... and then there is the future cost of pensions. 26% on running costs and operations.
59% may be OK if, through prevention, the population is getting healthier and need less medications. The total pharma turnover might be an interesting guide.

I am pessimistic about my optimism ...