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Israeli Gaza conflict?????? (GAZA)     

Fred1new - 06 Jan 2009 19:21

Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Gausie - 31 May 2010 18:31 - 2305 of 6906

Cynic - Keep up, mate:-

The provocateurs were organized by an Islamist organization that has links to fundamentalist jihadi groups.

The extremists brought small children on board knowing that they intended to run a military blockade.

Israel offered to transfer the aid to Gaza again and again - they refused - and chose confrontation.

Israeli Minister Danny Ayalon: "Weapons found on board; the organizers intent was violent, their method was violent and the result was, unfortunately violent"

Israeli Minister Danny Ayalon: "We repeatedly called on the organizers to stop this provocation"

Israeli Minister Danny Ayalon: Allowing the illegal flotilla to reach Hamas would have opened a corridor of smuggling of weapons to Gaza and resulting in civilian deaths.

Israel transfers about 15,000 tons of supplies and humanitarian aid every week to the people of Gaza.

"We fully intend to go to Gaza regardless of any intimidation or threats of violence against us, they are going to have to forcefully stop us," said one of the flotillas organizers

Using the Arabic term intifada, Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said "We call on all Arabs and Muslims to rise up in front of Zionist embassies across the whole world.

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh said this week: "If the ships reach Gaza it is a victory; if they are intercepted, it will be a victory too"; Hamas is responsible for the suffering of both Palestinians and Israelis.

Israel left Gaza in hopes of peace in 2005 and in return received more than 10,000 rockets and terrorist attacks.

Israel has said that it will deliver any humanitarian aid to Gaza, as it does daily.

No country would allow illegal entry of any vessel into their waters without a security check.

Any police force in the world would respond to aggression; the provocation is the reason for this regrettable outcome.

Wounded, including violent activists, are receiving medical treatment in Israeli hospitals.

Al-Jazeera TV Report from "Freedom Flotilla" Before Its Departure for Gaza: Activists on Board Chant Intifada Songs and Praise Martyrdom.

Israeli Navy addresses a ship in the flotilla and offers it a dock in the port of Ashdod

BBC report shows violent, masked activists on ship




Haystack - 31 May 2010 18:38 - 2306 of 6906

Israel offered to transfer to aid to Gaza, except they only currently let through about 1/4 of the goods that went into Gaza before the blockade.

The ships were in international waters and had not run the blockade.

The bloakade was illegal.

It doesn't matter who the ships had links to, they were in international waters.

The blockade was because Israel did not like Hmas as a government for Gaza, as though it is any of their business. They were elected.

Why shouldn't they have weapons aboard. The Israeli commandos had weapons on their boats in international waters as well.

Who is to say that there cannot be masked activists on board the ships.

ptholden - 31 May 2010 18:41 - 2307 of 6906

Haystack, your analogy with the Somali pirates is somewhat inept and factually incorrect

'The Somalis don't tend to kill people on the ships they stop.'

Seafarers have been killed during piracy attacks, although admittedley few in number, however, the pirates show no hesitation in using indiscriminate RPG and small arms fire during the attacks. It is something of a surprise to me that there have not been more deaths. The pirates have also on many occassions opened fire on coalition warships, sea boats and helicopters, mostly to their disadvantage!

Haystack - 31 May 2010 18:44 - 2308 of 6906

The intention is not to kill, but they do. Israeli commandos don't intend to kill, but they do. Both groups are acting illegally in international waters. They are as bad as each other. One is open about its motives and the other pretends that they have right on their side. One group are hypocrits.

Gausie - 31 May 2010 18:44 - 2309 of 6906

Haystack -

so you're happy that they had arms on board

You're happy that they had masked activists on board.

You're happy that they'd stated they were going to run the blockade.

You're unhappy that they were stopped a long way offshore.

If I charge at you with a knife shouting 'death to Greg' do you wait until you've felt the steel pierce your internal organs before you attempt to stop me?

cynic - 31 May 2010 18:49 - 2310 of 6906

i'm very very old and very very slow - i am the tortoise metamorphosed

i read what you write (not say!), but tell me if the most important and salient points are verified by other than the israeli media ... expecting al jazeerah to do so, would of course be preposterous!

to be very specific ....

were arms found on board - or are the israelis waiting for the vessels to arrive in ashdod to produce these from a hat?

has israel promised to transfer to gaza 100% of the humanitarian aid that was on board these vessels, and will some independent organisation verify that this is being done?


Haystack - 31 May 2010 18:51 - 2311 of 6906

The fact is that they have no right to stop them where they did. It is the same with the police. Police have to wait until a crime has been committed. It is the usual disproportiante response from Israel. It has all done a huge amount of harm to Israel's cause.

Turkey was a strong suporter of Israel. Shimon Peres addressed Turkey's parliament three years ago now it looks like a Turkish Parliament Member is said to be among the dead.

cynic - 31 May 2010 18:53 - 2312 of 6906

Police have to wait until a crime has been committed .... no they don't

Haystack - 31 May 2010 18:54 - 2313 of 6906

And what do the police charge a criminal with if a crime has not been committed?

ptholden - 31 May 2010 18:56 - 2314 of 6906

Intent

Haystack - 31 May 2010 18:59 - 2315 of 6906

Intent is a crime. They weren't even intending to commit a crime. They were running an ILLEGAL blockade.

cynic - 31 May 2010 19:00 - 2316 of 6906

spot on peter ..... if a delivery driver carries a baseball bat in the cab and does not have ball to accompany, he is charged with carrying an offensive weapon, even though it may be totally innocent .... ditto, carrying loose change in a sock carries that risk .... if spiteful, carrying a bag of tools is the same

===========

anyway, all getting off the point as to whether or not this flotilla was gun running or totally innocent and just carrying humanitarian aid

Fred1new - 31 May 2010 19:10 - 2317 of 6906

Hays,

The police in the UK can arrest an individual, if they suspect a "crime" is going to be "committed". etc.

But they can't do it in international waters.

Another point is that after this action, even if the Israelis produce a Sherman tank and a nuclear missile from the hold of the boats, nobody will believe them.

I hope this "crazy" action with pressure from outside Israel will force all parties to sit down at the table and have respectful and meaningful negotiations regarding the rights of all the "peoples" in Gaza and Israel.

ptholden - 31 May 2010 19:17 - 2318 of 6906

Haystack, you must be having a bad day, error follows error. You asked a question which was answered in the context it was asked.

Whilst I have reservations about the conduct / outcome of this boarding, I doubt we've seen anything yet and like the Dubai assasination will eventually be considered small spuds in the grand scheme of things.

aldwickk - 31 May 2010 19:34 - 2319 of 6906

The ships were in international waters ......... so they were in the wrong

And when are they going to admit to having weapons of mass destruction or do the UN have to send in inspectors.

aldwickk - 31 May 2010 19:43 - 2320 of 6906

http://www.techeye.net/business/silicon-valley-hires-tony-blair

Were is Tony Blair when we need a peace envoy ?

cynic - 31 May 2010 19:54 - 2321 of 6906

White House spokesman Bill Burton said the United States "deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries sustained" in the incident.
what a pathetic response from usa, but should one expect anything different - disgusting!

Gausie - 31 May 2010 20:20 - 2322 of 6906

Get real.

these guys chose to deliberately run a naval blockade - they knew what they were getting into and they were up for a fight. The're just a bit pissed that they didn't get to choose the location and the timing of the confrontation. Would you be so up in arms if Israel had waited until they were in Israeli waters in daylight and there were more casualties?

cynic - 31 May 2010 20:55 - 2323 of 6906

gausie - is that aimed at me? .... if so, no logic and/or misdirected

Haystack - 31 May 2010 21:05 - 2324 of 6906

ptholden
No, the answer was not implicit in the question. There is no criime for there to be intent. It wouldn't matter if the ships were full of arms. that is NOT a crime in international waters. Running an illegal blockade is NOT a crime. No cime therefore no intent. Shipping arms to Gaza is not even a crime.
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