.

Ok advan just gone to get some size 10 DMs and give any one a good kicking if they dont follow the rules

EVS down again today and sitting squarely on a support level.

A fall below this and faster falls should be expected.

Quin did you sort your website out m8?,..........thanks for the mail

pete Havent heard from any one at EVS yet but have registered a domain name, will let you know how things go.

Debs is sorting it as we speak..........I would imagine before the end of the day you will have your info.

2LB - with your industry knowledge do you have any up to date info on how the wholesale market is performing in terms of price competition, especially as you have previously mentioned foreign operators attempting to cut-in on the UK market?

Foreign operators are here already in large numbers. AT&T have substantial VoIP investments in UK and already operate a large network and provide IP telephony services to large companies. Primus tel have a large office in Westminster almost opposite the Houses of Parliamnet and they also operate a very large VoIP network. In fact Primus tel are probably the biggest wholesaler of IP telephony capacity in Europe. The operate cut price calling systems and calling card systems under subsidiary companies that are not obvious. MCI and several other major US carriers have a major presence here as well.

This market is getting very tight and operators like EVS will get heavily squezed.

The wholesale market is largely static regarding price - a number of IP based carriers have offerings out there but as yet they are not fully delivering on quality and connectivity.

Wholesale pricing actually doesn't vary that much - if you look at a global termination sheet from a large player today then it will look pretty similar to one from two years ago, there is only so low that you can go, the end consumers will not stand for quality below a certain threshold, despite how much they hunger for the "cheapest" rate.

There are some large European companies floating about at the moment trying to break into the wholesale supply sector but as yet I've seen nobody going stupid on pricing to try to gain big market share - it's an unsustainable model.

There have been certain posts regarding pressure on calling card margins and special offers on the end prodcuts - do not confuse this with pressure on the wholesale margins, there are seperate markets, the actual card sellers are essentially glorified market traders who for years have had the lions share of the margin, generally 40% in the UK and so all they have masses of room to battle with each other on special offers on the actual card - they don't impact on the actual rates and margins of the airtime suppliers. That confusion is often cited by individuals who simplt do not understand the supply chain and the margin share.

very interesting post LB, what is your honest take on Envesta regarding their 2 products?

1. Calling Cards
2. CCR

Wholesale carrier prices are falling but not falling that fast. The reason is that the major carriers are using their muscle to pick up international traffic at the cheap end of the market.

AT&T in the US is offering rates to its regular consumers as cheap as CCR are offering as a cut price supplier. That means that very soon the margin for companies like CCR will disappear almost overnight. The major carriers can keep the wholesale price up and undercut the cheap operators who then cannot get capacity cheap enough to run a business.

I can say hand on heart it is suprising how much we take women for granted. I am all but set for a week in the caravan. It has taken me 3 days to get everything ready, mind you it has been done with the minimal of fuss. However still a long time, too long. God knows how we will manage when she is away for 6 months.

Cheers 2LB nice sensible and informative post its a breath of fresh air thank you.

2LB

Were you actually on that BBC 2 money programme?

RED

Hi Pete.

EVS offer two aspects on calling cards, the wholesale supply to card operators and the actual cards themselves to partners and resellers.

The wholesale offering has maintained share and margin primarily through a firm PQ ration (price v quality) - this can take a long time to get right in this market, took me over a year, but once you have it then the business will stay loyal and grow. The weakness on this is that EVS is primarily UK based in this market, which is by far the most competitive market going, hence actual bottom line will never be as good as it could be if the base was to be expanded.

The cards themselves are, I believe, more European based, which is a good thing, the market is simply enormous and the biggest single difference between the UK and most of Europe is mobile access to freephone numbers and the levies and charging relating to that access. Quite often a view against the card market being sustainable is the proliferation of mobiles, however mobiles have INCREASED card usage in Europe, not decreased it.

CCR is aonther matter - personally I am not a fan of the actual product for the use of international calls but I can see that it has a market, and to be honest it only needs a tiny tiny share of the international calling market to make a massive difference to EVS given where they currently sit. I am more intrigued by the various possible uses if it as more of a personal numbering system, there are lots of commercial applications being looked at that do not have any internatinal aspect whatsover.

Prodcuts aside, it is the company itself that impresses me and has lead me to increase my holdings over the past few months. The overheads are very low and the subsequent net margins are therefore higher than avergage for the niche industry.

RED

No, I wasn't, I just helped with the research and discussion.

It's like coming home on here!

Can anyone answer this question from Investalvirgin so I can email him back?

Ta

Hi C,
Not sure if you can help with this, a while ago I tried to set up the
streaming chart prices on moneyam (like ad vfn do where you view for 30
seconds or so). However whenever I try to access the moneyam homepage I get
an internet explorer message box saying "Internet explorer has encountered a
problem and needs to shut down", I then get kicked out onto my desk top
screen and have to start int explorer again. So at present I can't access
moneyam.
Any ideas....?

advans,

I would suggest that they run a windows update and make sure their browser is as up to date as possible. It may also be a conflict with a pop up blocker. A website cannot cause this behaviour in a browser so I would certainly suggest the update. Perhaps even try a different browser to see if that makes a difference,

Ian

Thanks Ian, much appreciated. If it's any consolation, your service levels have impressed me and a few others and are far in excess of our old forum!

Thankyou!

Only one MM now on the bid at 3.8p with the rest at 3.7p.

It has been constant selling this morning and the chart and technical indicators are looking weaker.

2LB many thanks for the industry insight - some of the best non-EVS specific but relevant info for a good while much appreciated.