Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Check this story from one of the Passengers,

Passengers recount mid-sea horror
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/2010/06/20106193546785656.html

Haystack

I'm glad it's so cut and dried for you - perhaps you could arrange a lecture tour of international legal organisations, institutes and universities, to present the legal arguments that your incisive and expert mind has analysed prior to coming to your conclusion.

They really do need your expert pontification because they don't see it nearly as clearly as you do.

It is just Israel and its supporters that don't see it that clealy. A number of news agencies are now casting doubt on the Israeli account of events.

Haystack, whilst personally I have no intention of voicing an opinion until ALL the facts are available, your ramblings on this thread are much akiin to the long time squelched dick head Fred. Whilst I realise events of this type inevitably polarise views, you really are totally one dimensional in your ability to view the bigger picture. I recall a quote (albeit not very well) which goes along the lines of - keep quiet rather than confirm you're an idiot.

Haystack - that's rubbish.

The question hinges on whether Gaza is a sovereign state, part of Israel, or an occupied territory.

There are (apparently) sound legal arguments for the blockade for each of these cases. Which one do you want the arguments for? I'll set them up so you can knock them down.

The problem is that until Gaza's status can be properly recognised, identified and pigeonholed nobody knows which set of legal precedents and law applies.

The same should also be said of the supporters of the Israeli action. I am afraid I regard your comments as just an attempt to stop criticism of Israel. Iyt is your choice to not read my comments. I regard the actions of Israel as appaling and should be condemned with some actual response such as a trade boycott.

G
There also seems to be sound legal arguments for the action being completely illegal. Israel is now clutching at straws to try and prove it was in the right. I see that the Israeli goverment is getting a rough ride from its own press now.

This is from Haaretz today

The price of flawed policy
Relations with Turkey will probably deteriorate further, and there may even be serious damage on the official level.
Haaretz Editorial When a regular, well-armed, well-trained army goes to war against a "freedom flotilla" of civilian vessels laden with civilians, food and medication, the outcome is foretold - and it doesn't matter whether the confrontation achieved its goal and prevented the flotilla from reaching Gaza. The violent confrontation, whether caused by poor military planning or poor execution, resulted from flawed policy, wars of prestige, and from a profound misunderstanding of the confrontation's meanings and repercussions.

Ari Shavit, also writing in Haaretz, calls the incident "a fiasco on the high seas" and says the Israeli government has failed to learn the lessons of its own independence struggle from the British. Mr Shavit recalls the British army's attack on the Exodus, a boatload of Jewish refugees, shortly before the mandate crumbled in 1948:

"With a single foolish move, the Israeli cabinet cast the Muslim Brotherhood in the role of the victim and the Israel Navy as the villain and simultaneously opened European, Turkish, Arab, Palestinian and internal Israeli fronts. In so doing, Israel is serving Hamas' interests better than Hamas itself has ever done."

Uri Avnery, a former member of the Israeli parliament, writing in the Gush Shalom blog, says the action has done terrible harm to Israel:

"This is a day of disgrace to the State of Israel, a day of anxiety in which we discover that our future was entrusted to a bunch of trigger-happy people without any responsibility."

H

Perhaps you can outline one of the sound legal arguments [citation needed] for the action being completely illegal? It may give us a starting position on what pigeonhole you pop Gaza into.

It's good to see that the various wings of the Israeli press are happy to question, comment, and criticise - that's one of the true signs of good democracy. Our own press in the UK is equally as critical of some of our own governments actions.

Interesting to see a partial passanger list and some of the comments relating to beatings during interogation.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7141720.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=797093

Incidentally, UNCLOS Articles 105, 107, 108 & 110 cover the right of warships or ships engaged soley on governmental business to board ships suspected of piracy & drug traffiking. Additionally, MOUs exist between nations to conduct searches once ships suspected of illicit activity have been boarded.

and don't bet against peter knowing his onions!

The waters are Gaza'a territorial waters NOT Israel's. Israel occupied Gaza and were regarded as the occupying power. Israel claims to have left Gaza and disengaged, but they still control Gaza's territorial waters and airspace. How can israel set up a blockade of Gaza's territorial waters?

Any boarding of ship suspected of acting illegally is supposed to involve informing and asking permission from the country under whos flag they are sailing. The consent of Turkey was NOT obtained.

UNSC Resolution 1874:

12. Calls upon all Member States to inspect vessels, with the consent of the flag State, on the high seas, if they have information that provides reasonable grounds to believe that the cargo of such vessels contains items the supply, sale, transfer, or export of which is prohibited by paragraph 8 (a), 8 (b), or 8 ( c ) of resolution 1718 (2006) or by paragraph 9 or 10 of this resolution, for the purpose of ensuring strict implementation of those provisions

"Any boarding of ship suspected of acting illegally is supposed to involve informing and asking permission from the country under whos flag they are sailing."

Incorrect

I was under the impression the boarding took place in International Waters?
Is Gaza a recognised country and therefore have its own TTWs?

Oh and what does UNCSR 1874 have to do with Israel or the ME, I was under the impression that particular resolution and 1718 dealt with the DPRK?

Perhaps it has since been modified?

Even The Israeli defense minister referred to the flotilla sailing into Gaza's territorial waters.

and

"Israeli officials said that when the flotilla ignored calls from its naval forces to respect its closure of Gaza's territorial waters, soldiers boarded the ships from helicopters and from navy sea craft."

Gaza is part of Palestine.

I was going to place a series of photos of the destruction of Gaza and some of the mutilations of civilians and photos of the Polish ghettos and their destruction and murdering of Jewish people.

The similarities were for me are striking, the underlying inhumanity are of a similar primitive origin.

Some, defend the Israeli disproportionate use of force to defending themselves against what they are now creating for others.

I think the methods used in both Poland and Gaza are from the same base.

I feel the Israeli government and to a certain degree the representatives if the Palestinians should be ashamed of themselves, as anyone defends the actions which they are using.

There are other methods of resolving the conflict other than murder.
I decided not to paste some of the photos, but for any who cannot see the actions in the present conflict the Middle East are inhumane, and will not resolve the problem, I would suggest viewing the two sites.

Consider the injured and mutilated to be members of your own family.

http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&rlz=1B3WZPB_enGB336GB336&q=polish+ghetto+photos&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=3WgFTJ2PFtGT4gbd2_DLDg&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQsAQwAA

Make allowances for below, as it is journalistic and has propaganda influence.

But the photos are graphic and the majority are not set ups etc..


http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/gaza-horror-large-photo-gallery-of-gaza-massacre-by-israel/

Haystack, you continue to make incorrect statements in nearly every post, generally clouding the issue(s) probably deliberately, you can't be that stupid surely?

It doesn't really matter what Israeli officials are reported as saying with regard to TTWs, what matters (in the context of your rather flawed argument) is whether Gaza is recognised as having TTWs (as part of Palestine) or not.

Care to comment on UNCLOS article 110 re your other incorrect statement or the relevance of UNSCR 1874?

The United Nations recognised that Gaza had territorial waters and airspace. They accepted that while Israel was occupied, Israel was in control of these. Isreael no longer occupies Gaza (although it might as well according to their behaviour). Who's territorial waters do you think they are then? They can't be Israel's as they are not adjacent to Israel.

Looks like you have accepted you're talking rubbish Haystack, ask a question when you cannot answer it yourself. By the way the UN appears to consider Gaza as still occupied, in which case Gaza does not have TTWs. Hoist by your own petard?