Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

grannyboy if you read the whole page it's darker than that ,quite astounding .

Dumbo,

I find it difficult to insult you.

The trouble with the Cons is that even the remainers must be concerned at the way this is being conducted , it didn't have to be like this . All those green party types should look at themselves again .

Eventually there will be some taxes that will go straight to the EU as political union is not possible until fiscal union. There will be federal taxes as well as state taxes much like the US. It is also essential to have fiscal union because of monetary union (Euro). Unfortunately for the EU they did the monetary union too soon before the fiscal union. The EU will also have to sign off all the budgets of member states as they currently do for Greece. It is for the above reasons that I want to leave the EU and not the immigration problem.

grannyboy
UKIP did not have a fully costed manifesto. They did use an independent body, but without access to the Treasury model they cannot cost anything. Even Labour do not have access to the whole model.

Every few years the bulk of the model is released into the public domain. It is not complete and is quite a few years out of date. When people use it they have to make lots of assumptions which make their estimates pretty useless. It is a sign of the gullibility of UKIP supporters that they even vaguely believe that the manifesto was fully costed. UKIP have no sensible policies partly as they have no experience of government even in opposition. The only one they have managed to attract with actual ministerial experience is that idiot Hamilton.

Watch Nigel Farage rip Cameron to pieces when they have a debate .

Sorry to disappoint you but it is not head to head. It is a live Q&A session in front of 200 people with Farage going first. When he has finished Cameron will go on. There will be two sessions. It is on June 7.

NOT a debate.

Victim
I do not disagree, in search of the sound bite politicians on both sides lie. The public are not fools and will make up their own minds on the day.

But Haystack is right, a week after the vote, when we have all had our say, we will be back to our two party system. Some of the current players will be fatally wounded, but the deck chairs will be rearranged and the important things in life will go on.

UKIP only hold one card in the game. Their game is over on the 23rd.June.

Camerons brain must be nearly wasted now , I bet he's lost all sense of reality and wouldn't know that what he was saying was true or fiction .

Cameron will not be debating with anyone.

Bloody coward !

Cameron is quite right not to debate with anyone. He has nothing to gain by winning against one person, bt more to lose. A face to face debate does not highlight the issues, it is just a pissing contest. The one that wins is the one that puts the case better or is the best rabble rouser. It doesn't mean their case is actually any better.

Hays ,so far Cameron has been terrible ,even folk voting to stay in think he has made himself look a fool .
I would never vote for him again. Not because he wants to stay but because he has disgraced himself and been proved a liar .

Cameron has done a much better job than the vote leave group. The outers are in disarray with no card to play except immigration.

Haystack (2430) "They did use an independent body, but without access to
the Treasury model they cannot cost anything"

Maybe they didn't have the full Treasury infomation, but they'd have had
the same information as the Labour/LibDems party had, but THEY didn't
have a FULLY costed manifesto erected with the information that WAS available..

As to the gullability of UKIP supporters..No more gullable then supporters
from other main parties, considering the corrupt figures released by the
cameron and osborne and the politicised civil service...Which is evidence
further by the corrupt one sided financial reports put out by the remain side
in the referendum...But to be expected from a couple of treacherous snake oil salesmen.

will10 2433, UKIP only hold one card in the game. Their game is over on the
23 rd of June.

Obviously you must've had you head stuck up your rse the last couple of years.
UKIP are the biggest British party in the EU, hopefully they'l not be needed in
that house of corruption much longer after 23rd June, BUT they will need to be
around to make sure the UK don't get sold down the river in any TRADE deal negotiations...

But I'm quite sure if the vote is to LEAVE then cameron and osborne won't be in their positions for long.

And to say cameron dosn't need to have a face to face with anyone is just as dishonest as all the rubbish that's being spouted by the remain side over the last month..Camerons a COWARD and he should be held to account for what he's being saying and doing in trying to deceive the voting public with dodgy financial reports and using selective scenario's for future projections.....

Cameron will answer questions in the Q&A session and be accountable to the public. He doesn't need to discuss anything with Farage as he is only the leader of a party with one MP.

UKIP supporters are also gullible if they thought the campaign would be any different. The two camps are trying to scare the public. The outers only have immigration and our EU contribution to talk about and are lying in the process. The remains are doing the same thing based on the economy. The UKIPers are also gullible if they thought it would be any different. It is just that the outers are not very good at campaigning and are fragmented. It looks like a walkover for the remain camp.

Once the UK votes to stay in, it will all be forgotten. This vote is a once in more than a generation vote and the leave campaign has messed it up. They have had years to prepare their case and it is empty. They look like a bunch of bitter amateurs.

Grannyboy

In the UK, how many UKIP MP's are there?. Their revelance is close to zero.

How effective, in Europe, are UKIP in securing UK trade deals in the EU?. Even closer to zero, it's an open market to all members.

Corrupt info put out by both sides of EU debate?.

What do you make of the false £350 million a week claim on the Boris bus. Government select committee now calling for its removal. Claimed to be the single most misleading claim by either side.

Both sides lie, that's what politicians do.

Hays

Check last line of second paragraph. Outers and Remainers criss crossed I think.

OK see you got it.

Apparently Juncker has said , if the going gets tough lie . Nice to know . If you lie on your tax return i doubt it would stand up , so the same should apply .

haystack you seem to have on the one hand a fascination with UKIP and on
another an unhealthy, almost psychotic paranoia.

Unless like will10, who's had his head stuck up his anus, and you've been
there with him, but the general theme has being Tory against Tory, more the
pity because I believe Nigel Farage would've done a better job.

And if there had have been a head to head Farage would've kicked 'Daves'
ass, he'd be left walking bow legged...

will10 "How effective, in Europe, are UKIP in securing UK trade deals in the EU?."

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL......Hahahahaha....Did you just ask me how many trade
deals did UKIP negotiate.......Its supposed to be the commissioners that do the
trade negotiations...But remind me how long did it take them to do a trade
deal with Canada??...What about the USA???

There might be some disagreement to the Gross..Or Net that's handed over
to those parasites in Brussels...But when you have only 6% of businesses
exporting to the EU but the other NINETY FOUR % having to follow ALL the
rules and regulations, costing them BILLIONS a year, then there's further
cost when countries need bailing out, and money to countries that are supposed
to be stopping immigrants leaving their shores...