Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

The rebate from the EU that Thatcher obtained for the UK has netted us £79 billion so far. It would be more but Blair agreed to reduce the rebate in 2005. This has cost us approx £10 billion to date. The money that Thatcher saved us is worth several funerals.

Skinny,

I have a nice sun tan, but I didn't know Manuel was black.

But he does go on and on and on.

And his "." is worrying.

8-)


Hays,

A cost cutting effort could have saved us more by paying for the political stunt out of the private pockets of No 10 and 11. The latter address is now looking more and more like tory party headquarters.

Is it true Murdoch has been found coming in by the back gate and skulking in the in the rose beds once again.

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Perhaps, if Thatcher had behaved as a European and less of a little Englander when she had the opportunity, she may have been able to advanced the organisation and helped to introduce better European Fiscal policies and prevented, or at least reduced the present chaos.

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I just had an image of Maggie Thatcher and Hays in a gun boat decked in buttings crossing the channel, waving bows and arrows and singing "Heil Britannia".

I ask not anti EU at all. I have travelled across most of Europe and enjoyed it. I just don't want federalism. I don't want a United States of Europe and certainly not the Euro. I like the principle of a trading group but not fiscal or political unity. I preferred when each country could set its own interest rates and exchange rates. That view is becoming very common now within the EU.

Have Thatcher's ashes been distributed anywhere near her soul mates of so many years, a certain James Saville or maybe General Pinochet ?

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Thatcher's ashes will be buried at the Royal Hospital Chelsea.

Manuel,

You are repeating yourself.

I prefer you when you are brief, such as "."

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Hays,

Your outlook for Europe seems to me to be very parochial.

Your view, and that of the UKIP, BNIP, the looney tory right wing and some others, appears to be similar to living in a village which is preparing to have a village a fete or party, but you are too frightened to go the preparatory meetings, or help to organise it in any way, in case you are expected to give something of yourself, or donate out of your own pocket for its success.

However, you still live in hope that they may benefit to you some of the goodies they will enjoy.

Unfortunately, you may find that they leave you with the scraps that nobody else wants.

The strength of the USA (with all its faults) lies in the fact it is a Federal Republic and with all its diversities, is relatively united as an economic and military force.

The majority of those states would be inconsequential by themselves.
Each state has its own “local organisation governing powers” and “legal individuality” although generally subservient to Constitutional and Federal law.
Similar “organisation” of EU is feasible and will come with or without the UK.

If the UK is going to benefit from, the infrastructures, (roads, ports, railways, fly over, etc.) trade and security and the market place, etc. from the EU then it would be better to be a part of it, rather than bleating from the outside who badly done we feel, or self-aggrandising about what others should do.

If you don’t like the rules or regulations, persuade others from inside the organisation to understand the reasons and need for change, not moaning constantly from outside how nasty the French, Germans and Cypriots are treating us.

The EU has its problems and needs to evolve but it will be there in 30 and 50 years time, in spite of its faults and weaknesses, simply in a global economy because it is necessary.

I am guessing, but I think the next major World War will not be a military one, but an economic one.

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But I wish you lot wouldn't keep on leading me astray.

I got to finish the patio.

Clean the BBQ.

Get the pork and bacon ready for tonight.

And iron my frock.

.

Europe is far too diverse for integration. The Euro has been a terrible experiment. Countries like Greece and Sp as in would have devalued their currencies, gained more tourism and traded their way out of recession. As it is they have to do what the ECB wants.

sorry guys, but our resident pontificating non-voter keeps cluttering up the thread, so i move mine in the vain (vague?) hope i'll get some intelligent input from others

should anyone care if UKIP win a slab of seats in the local elections?
as i have frequently posted, i believe strongly that we all have an obligation to vote, and i care not for which party ....... unfortunately, the turn-out on 2nd may is likely to be little more than 30%, which in itself will always produce some odd results

for sure, the present incumbents will take a hammering, as is always the case mid term ..... in this instance, the general public has been badly mauled by the effects of the (very necessary imo) tough austerity measures imposed to bring this country back from the brink of bankruptcy ..... add to that the backlash against short-term or even illegal immigrants who are seen as taking an unfair slice of any jobs going and also benefiting from the generous state (taxpayers!) aid ranging from housing through medical care .... and of course, the tentacles of the dreaded brussels law machine with its massive gravy-train of passengers are deeply resented

thus, UKIP's populist and xenophobic policies will appeal to these "angry" voters, even if there is not much substance as to how that party would actually fund, let alone tackle these cornerstones of their manifesto

for all that, the fascists in the 30s could be similarly derided; and nor should one forget the clown party in the recent italian elections

so, 3rd may is likely to see a slab of UKIP councillors with labour also benefitting, not so much from people switching their vote to them, but more from a splitting of the tory and lib/dem vote .... BNP and other scary right wing splinter parties will also pick up a small but larger proportion votes

the real indicator of whether or not this country is indeed heading further right (that is where UKIP lies) will come in a couple of years time

I agree with your comments, cynic and I have always thought that people should make the effort to vote whichever party they support. A lot of people don't bother vote with the excuse that their vote will not make any difference - and the same people do nothing but complain all the time. I think UKIP will win a slab of seats in the local elections and it will be a protest vote against the Conservatives, Liberals and Labour. Immigration is becoming one of the major political issues in this country, along with the abuse of our benefit system and in my view both the Conservatives and Labour need to do more to address these issues.

Left wing knobheads mouthing off yet again! Why don't you all just Fxxk Off and die. Or bugger off to France.

ok Chris, now you've got that off your chest, would you care to comment on what i posted above?

DB - i recollect that in years gone by, every so often, there would be a surge of support for the then liberals and occasionally for the greens too (they seem to have disappeared entirely), but when it came to a general election, people voted more with their heads ..... with that in mind, do you feel that this is anything more than a truly angry but temporary protest? .... in saying that, it is a said that the two major parties will address the issues you raise (and of course the economy too) in their own slightly different ways

do you think that both labour and conservatives will also have to address seriously within the next 2 years the continuing uk membership of eu? .... do you think the conservatives will indeed make a referendum part of their general election manifesto - whereas labour will not (currently) even consider such a move?

I think that the extent to which UKIP will take votes from Labour has been underestimated. Ed Miliband has tried to counteract that process by hinting of a vote on Europe. The electorate is not fooled though. UKIP will certainly take votes from both the coalition partners and expect them to have some successes with the councils. A general election is a different business though and people largely return to type. There could well be a hung parliament again. It is no use saying that the Libs won't get into bed with the Conservatives again as they might not have an option. If there had been a coalition this time between the Libs and Labour it would not have lasted long as there was not a workable majority with that combination. A coalition like that would have been on a knife edge from day one meaning little legislation of any use could be passed.

Hays - do you think the conservatives will indeed make a referendum part of their general election manifesto? .... i'm afraid that we'll have to assume that any such referendum question will be fairly phrased (i live more in hope than expectation!)

I think after all the fuss made over the last few years then they will have to promise a referendum. Apart from anything, it is Cameron's trump card to crush UKIP in the election. The normally loyal Conservative voters will have a choice between an untried UKIP without a full set of general policies and the Conservatives offering an IN/OUT referendum. In that situation I would expect Conservative voters to vote along traditional lines.

Offering an IN/OUT vote could have considerable advantages in attracting Labour voters to the Conservatives. I am sure that Labour have seen this coming, which is why Miliband has been so coy about the subject.

I think the Conservative party policy makers have calculated that they must offer a referendum in order to get an outright majority.

The result of all this could be that everyone has to offer a vote on the EU and we risk getting bounced out of Europe by accident.

if you were to vote today, would you vote to stay or to leave?

Cynic - Can't disagree with your post, for sure Ukip will have an impact. History hopefully will not be repeated this time around. Proven fact Labour get into power, destroy the economy and everything else they lay their grubby hands on. Conservatives are then voted in inevitably, and somehow cock up as well despite getting the economy back on track. Osbournes tactics are working to date despite the whinging and whining from the left. Complacency has always been the enemy of the Conservatives, fingers crossed those lessons from the past are not repeated. As far as Fred and now sadly GF are concerned, Fred hypocrite, bitter, obnoxious twat! GF, completely lost the plot and a bigger hypocrite. Farage? would you buy a used car from him? neither would I.

Manuel.

Not sure if you are talking about the British Tea Party, or just discussing the fortunes of UKIP and the Tory party. The problem that you have, is that there are five main parties of equal significance to discuss.

Such as these:-

1) BNP
2) UKIP
3) WWTP
4) LRWTP
5) LSFTP

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