Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

no i haven't, but fwiw, my tax avoidance measures are very mundane and arguably not nearly as far-reaching as they should be

Hays,

Morality!

Ummh.

Hays is 100% correct .... the taxman has no morals when it comes to collecting his slice, so why the reverse? .... rendering unto Caesar etc does not preclude minimising the amount one should so render

Politicians and governments use the concept of morality to generate feelings of guilt in people who may be minimising their tax. They also foster feelings of animosity in the population against people who may not be paying enough tax. Neither situation has any real basis and is just a trick. If I were to pay almost no tax or even actually no tax I would not feel even slightly guilty. But then again, I can't remember feeling guilty about much ever. It is a vastly overrated emotion.

cynic most polish men sold the jews to the ss for gifts was that your family
we no you are a coward and your colours are bright yellow
and we no you are proud of your colours .
and to think my family died for yours makes me sick .

Hays and Manuel,

It seems that you are suggesting that "morality" in the above circumstance is what the law permits, or what one can get away with and that “feelings” of responsibility to others unnecessary, or even unwarranted.

A bit like Maggie was suggesting with there is no such thing as society.

However, if one was to become dependent, or in need of the support of society which they had previously avoided contributing fully to, they would have no twinge of guilt, but simply take advantage of the “generosity” provided by what could be considered the foolishness of others in society, who have not avoided making full payment of appropriate tax.

Perhaps, many successful and unsuccessful villains show the same flexibility of "emotion and actions" of egocentricity, lack of social empathy, but still prepared to associate with similar self advancing individuals for self benefit and are able to show little remorse.

-------------

Funny old world, perhaps the electorate does deserve those who it elects.

Obviously the politicians, government and society have been more successful applicants in conning you into having your holier than thou attitude. I must say that I am pleased that there are such gullible souls out there.

I don't think morality has anything to do with paying tax at a high or low level. Tax is what the government can get away with charging.

fred - as so often, you choose to distort .... in legal and tax terms, morality has no bearing or relevance whatsoever .... whether or not you as an individual wish to take advantage of all or any permitted manoeuvring to avoid paying tax, is entirely a personal choice as is choosing what charities to support or avoid

Are you saying legal systems, personal choice or actions are not based on, or influenced by personal "morality"?

No such thing as a public morality?

legal systems are assuredly not based on morality, though the laws within that system should, but do not necessarily, reflect the prevailing and strongly held views (morality!) of society - e.g. the ending of child labour in uk or even hanging

personal choice and actions are indeed often a reflection of one's own moral perception of what is right and wrong - e.g. going to help someone in trouble or the reverse as is sadly often the case nowadays

public morality is amorphous, especially in a multi-cultural society where differing segments will often have varying views on rigft and wrong

WELL this is a shock, even I am overwhelmed.

If this is the true picture its goodbye Giddeon and call me dave...........

electionista ‏@electionista 10h

UK - ComRes poll for local elections: CON 31%, LAB 24%, LDEM 12%, UKIP 22%

http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/C4M_Local_Election_Poll_30_April_2013.pdf …


The Torries have had it if this turns out not to be a rouge Poll.

UKIP on 22%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What will that do to the tory vote.

labour werent expected to do well in mostly southern heartland Tory seats.

Might even have a grand on at Hills for Giddeon to be kicked out.

Laws are based on the 'good' of society and will alter over time. Homosexuality is a good example of how laws and penalties change. Laws vary a huge amount across a selection of countries. We have no monopoly on morality and it also varies as much as laws. There is no absolute morality and laws are often based on the safety and convenience of the majority. Is it immoral to park in a street? Does that change if a yellow line is drawn? Is it immoral to drive at more than 30mph, especially when the speed limit on that road was 40mph last week? Is it immoral to say unflattering things about Mohammad. Does that immorality vary depending on which piece of the world that you are standing on?

Tax laws certainly have no morality in them Income tax was introduced as a temporary measure to pay for a war. You could say that it was immoral to demonstrate against the 'poll' tax, which was a very fair and 'moral' tax.

Hi Haystack,

Agree re your tax avoidance comments.

Don't know who you are arguing against as I can't see their posts, so it is obviously somebody who I have squelched but I wonder if they have an ISA, which is a tax avoidance vehicle.

Anyone who pays tax that they are not legally obliged to pay is a mug!

Tax evasion is a different matter, perhaps some people do not appreciate the difference!

Even Guido is shocked.......

Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes 1m
Shock as ComRes poll puts UKIP on 22% http://order-order.com/2013/05/01/shock-as-comres-poll-puts-ukip-on-22/ …

Guido Fawkes ✔ @GuidoFawkes

Just been round various bookies in the West End putting £50 bets on UKIP to do well so as not to move the market.
4:21 PM - 30 Apr 2013

Isnt greekman the ex copper with a massive pension WE ARE ALL PAYING FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!

Retire at 49 after 30 years service get the full pension and then move onto another full time job............ SHAME.

gold finger
Looking at the figures above you can see Conservatives 31% and Labour on 24%. That looks like UKIP are taking more votes from Labour. That could be due to their wishwashy attitude to the EU.

CErtainly UKIP is better than the other two, so they should benefit.

hays, its southern seats in general that are being contested, get your facts right.

Sure North Yorks is up for grabs but thats a a Tory hot bed anyway.

Here you are Hays the other big poll out this morning nationwide poll showing labour are in fact 2 points ahead now of where they were last week after thatcher bounce....................

electionista ‏@electionista 1h
UK - YouGov/Sun poll: CON 30%, LAB 39%, LDEM 11%, UKIP 14%

WHAT you have to remember these elections are mostly southern seats and the fact UKIP are looking likely to nabb Tory seats is a Massive worry for the Tory party.

It would leave Labour with an overall majority at next election of min of 65 seats.

Cyners and Hays....... one for you from me.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdOCWUgwiWs