Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

The debate is coming down to Immigration vs the Economy. They are the only cards that each side has to play.

That guardian article is full of B***S**T...

But what do you expect from a Pro EU mouth piece...

I missed a letter out of one of the words in the address in post 2496.

freakonomics.com/2012/01/09/if-all-the-economist-were-laid-end-to-end-would-they-reach-a-conclusion/

Economics is not a science, despite attempts of Economists to make it so. If you ask an opinion of two Economists you can expect at least three very different answers. The accuracy of economists is not the issue. What is important is the public's perception. The leave group have easily lost the economic argument. This is why they are concentrating on the immigration aspect.

Yes that's why the Leave side has to get the message out LOUD and CLEAR
that these so called expert economist have been wrong on 99.99% of the time.

With over 60% of Tory mps committed to Remain.
Last weeks poll of Tory supporters showed the majority on the remain side.
Cameron doesn't even need to sweat.
Brexit have the next two weeks to get an anti migration bounce. After that it's all about the economy.

Boris needs to show which countries will sign up to trade deals, and what the deal with the EU market will look like.
Otherwise game over for Brexit.
Meanwhile it's just blue on blue.

It's a long way from the Med...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36407685

What the feck has the claim (by will10) that over 60% of Tory MP's
are committed to remain..SO WHAT!

By all accounts 90% of Labour MP's are committed to remain...SO WHAT!

100% of LibDems are committed to remain...SO WHAT!

The only thing it proves is the establishment are sticking together, After
all they've got their future employment to think about.

As to what the trade deal will be like...It WILL be a free trade agreement,
and the countries we will sign trade agreements with are those that WE
buy goods from and THOSE who sell goods to us...

We've got enough 'skilled' Romanians, Bulgarian, Lithuanian car washers,
so we don't need to import more of these people, So that's three countries
that we don't need trade agreements with...

There won't be more then 4/5 countries out of the 27 that we do any trade
of significance with..

It is important because the establishment view is more coherent and organised. The out campaign is badly organised and fails to get their message across. They have a few big names involved, but the big hitters are all behind the remain side.

Leave have a serious uphill struggle. Remain just have to keep plugging the negative aspects of leaving. To persuade the public to vote leave is a much bigger task and I see no signs that they are making progress.

Grannyb

Mp's represent those that vote for them, so they give a good indication of the mood of their local area.
There is a majority of Tories for Remain.
Labour comes in at close to 3 to 1 for Remain.
Snp , say 4 to 1 for Remain.
Ukip say 100% Out
Add it up .. Remain takes it .
Maybe by only 53%, but that's all that's needed.

Any free trade with the EU will involve free movement.
There is no other model. This has been explained by countless members of the EU.

If Brexit can outline a different model, and get anyone in the EU to even say there is a possibility, then let's hear it.

The last week will be about the economy. The pressure is on Brexit. We all await with interest.

Where i think your wrong will is that if we vote remain UKIP will have a huge increase in votes , lets say 45% vote to leave and are defeated a lot of those may swing to UKIP in the next election .
I have always voted Tory but would never vote for Cameron again after his lies and scaremongering ,i also would not vote Labour .
UKIP used to be a protest vote ,however i think many people would swing their way ,a lot of people in this country want change and mass immigration is a huge problem for them ,you might not like it but believe me that's the way it is ,if we don't vote out this ain't over.

I am afraid that the leave campaign is lying just as much as the remains. What did you think the remain campaign would do apart from scaring people. They are just putting their view that the economy will suffer and we will have serious problems if we leave.

UKIP will die out in the next election. When it comes to a GE, most UKIP voters will vote Conservative again. They aren't going to want a Labour government so they can vote Conservative or UKIP. Voting UKIP would be pointless in the election.

IG Index BREXIT. 23 buy , 20 sell from 18 sell yesterday

You hope. But not true. Most people vote according to their principles of fairness and justice and it is the swing vote that counts. Many people will love to give our Dave a bloody nose for his deceit. Reformed Europe - takes us for fools.
As to both sides lying, the remainiacs have been far more vociferous and have been using all the government propaganda machinery since day 1. To accuse both as equally culpable is absurd.

Borıs wrıtten a very good artıcle ın Telegraph.

Leave ıs the only optıon for me.

All chums together for the cause....


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/29/david-cameron-and-sadiq-khan-plan-pro-eu-joint-appearance

2509 - thoroughly agree ..... there are very few absolutes in this debate

Twaddle. The only "lie" I have heard with regards to the Brexiteers is the £350M we send each week to support the corrupt EU. But that is absolutely true and mandatory according to our GDP.
We all do the same with our income taxes. Difference is that if we have a rebate coming at year end, the IR sends the cheque back to us. In the EU case, the EU decides who it will send the cheques to. The sending is mandatory, the return discretionary.

I will put my country after me.

Jimmy

You are not wrong, the outrage among the Tory voters is clear. Especially vocal is their distain for Cameron. But the next GE is 4years away. Can't see a Tory split. Ukip more likely to drop off rapidly.

We have the EU vote now. It is not just a battle for the soul of the Tory party. Everyone gets their say.

The race is still on, and it is close.