Thought I'd start a new thread as this is going to be a major talking point this year...have not made up my mind yet...(unlike bucksfizz)....but thinking of voting for an exit as Europe is not doing Britain any good at all it seems....

all of you on this site had a morgage, loan , pay off is relentless it drains the very
life out of you, like the payments nett per 150 m to EU you now have a chance to get rid of it. many of you would have a cornfield built on in order it
seems to house the rest of the world,ask your selves , who can stop the rot
YOU CAN BB

will10 "I'm no fan of self entitled politicians but say what you like
about Cameron, he has his team organised."


Not much organising needed when you exaggerate, use dodgy figures
and reports and get on bended knee to those foreign nationals who arn't
in hock to the EU commissioners, those other 'friends' of cameron are
more then willing to sell their souls, who do their fawning to safe guard
their pensions and future job prospects..

And being a snake oil salesman comes naturally to 'Dave', so no organising
needed.

Haystack 2509

"UKIP will die out in the next election. When it comes to a GE,
most UKIP voters will vote conservative again. They aren't going
to want a Labour government so they can vote conservative or
UKIP. Voting UKIP would be pointless in the next election."


Which is it.... UKIP to die out, or are they still going to be around
to vote for, instead of voting Labour?..

Certainly covering your bases there..

But obviously I've more sense, and state that UKIP WILL still be around
at the next election..After gaining nearly 4 MILLION voters, FROM BOTH
THE TORIES AND LABOUR, and a smidgin from the Libdems, as they will
be needed more then ever if Labour are a busted flush under Corbyn..

The leave campaign is riddled with lies. The only reason it appears that the remainers are bigger liars is that the vote leave campaign is making a bad job at getting their point of view across. The vote remain is the official view of the government, so it is reasonable that the government uses its facilities to push that view.

The problem is that the leave group always wanted to leave the EU. No improvement in the EU would have ever convinced them. They are essentially the same group that voted out in the original referendum. UKIP has grown on the back of the group.

The leave people thought it was going to be a walkover and there would easily be a majority wanting to quit the EU. It hasn't turned out that way. They also imagined that the government would idly sit by and watch it all unfold. In reality, the government has run a very successful campaign and look likely to win. The leave group are bitter and twisted now and are calling foul as they see themselves heading for a big loss.

I will vote to leave, but I am very disappointed with the leave campaign. There seems to be a distinct lack of planning. Boris and Gove touring the country is all very pointless. The only game in town is mass media. You can forget social media. It is all about TV and newspapers. It is the mistake Labour made in the GE. They spent lots of money and time bombarding social media with their message when they were just preaching to the already converted.

This referendum is set to become even more bitter as we head for the vote. The leave group are now fantasising that Cameron will care in the unlikely event that there might be a leadership challenge afterwards. He has independent wealth and a solid career of world wide talks and advice like Blair plus a huge pension.

The leave campaign is looking increasingly desperate.

Besides the 'controversial' 350 million pounds a week, what other lies
have the Leave side stated?

Yes it might be the official line of the government, but It's ALL built on
the deception of the 'so called' (NON) 'reforms' obtained by the lying
deceptive snake oil salesman, 'Call me Dave'..

As to you(haystack) voting to leave....Go tell that to the fairies..

You are from the same mould as cameron...

camerons had the promise of a posting in Brussels after he gets kicked
out by disgruntled, deceived 'honest' Tory's.

'daves' knee's in his trouser's are begining to show excessive wear...

I thought it was his brown nose....

That as well ;D

Both sides are telling lies.

But here's one fact:

It would be worth staying in if we could influence the EU's agendas, laws and rules.

But we can't because it is not a democratic institution.

Accordingly, because we can't ever democratically influence what is going on, what on earth is the point in staying in the EU as members?

A. None. There is no point. And because the membership fees are astronomic, by coming out we would save an awful lot of money. We could then spend our savings on some of the things the EU is financing, such as Grants for the British farming community, being just one example.

With totally uncontrolled EU immigration because of the EU's unswerving policies on freedom of movement and freedom of work and with EU immigrants consequently coming into the UK at the rate of say, enough to populate a city the size of Oxford, every year, then the only thing we can do about that particular problem, is to cease signing up to the stupidity of it and cancel our EU Membership.

One of the lies that the leave campaign keeps spouting is that we can have a free trade agreement with the EU without free movement of people. They have no way of knowing that. The EU has already said that will not be possible. No other country has that. If we have to accept free movement of people then leaving will have gained us nothing regarding immigration which is the leave group's only card to play. The leave group keeps harping on about EU laws affecting us. How many laws affect any of us on a day to day basis?

Stop it Haystack, you are making a fool of yourself.

Please tell us us how the USA, Asia, the rest of the world manage to trade with the €U without being a member and without signing up to their stupid laws?

And don't start talking about tariffs, that's a two way street everybody gets to play.

They trade under WTO rules with tariffs and import duties. They don't have a free trade agreement. With tariffs our goods would be more expensive in the EU and imported goods from the EU would cost us more.

Yes, both sides can play and they would do exactly that. The change would be a significant cost to us in lower exports and more expensive imports. The free trade aspect of the Common Market was the reason why we joined. Losing that would be a serious financial shock to our economy.

I have to admit I think Hays is talking sense over changes to EU laws and regulations.

(To agree with him worries me.)

However, I do wonder what his satisfaction will be in voting to try to exit from the EU. It seems masochistic to me.


A large % of laws and regulation seem me, to relate to standards of import/exports and protective and will not be changed in favour, or against the UK.


They are of mutual gain to all EC members.

Again, how many EU laws and regulations would the rabble of exiters in practice wish to change.

Although, I am sure that some would argue a case for slavery to be reintroduced.

-=-=-=-=

Grannyboy,

I am not sure why your postings remind me of being shouted at when I was a little boy by the school bully.

But, I think you have made me more in favour of voting to remain in the EU.

fred you still are a little boy, going by some of your post.

Haystacks thinks just because little countries like Norway and the Swiss
have to accept free movement it does not mean we will have to accept
the free movement scam.

Yes it was the FREE TRADE aspect as in COMMON MARKET that made ALL the difference in us
joining.

We are a small country compared to the EU. The point is that the leave campaign jut discount the problem and say we won't have to allow free movement. This one of their main lies as they don't really have any idea of the real answer.

There have been a few complaints about these instruction on how to fill in the postal voting form!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36411509

Directive 2006/112 of the EU requires Member States to have a minimum standard rate of VAT of 15%. I guess we have to set it at 20% so as to fund our massive EU membership fees?

If we were not in the EU then we could set our own Standard VAT rates and also go below a Standard Rate of 15%.

If we set the Standard VAT rate at 8% instead of 20%, then something costing £120 whilst we are in the EU would then cost £108 if we are out of it. This is 10% lower.

We won't reduce VAT because it constitutes a large proportion of UK taxation. We would need that money and any money paid to the EU to help pay for the financial crisis that would follow exit.

I will vote out, but I am concerned about the effects on the EU of our exit. There is a good chance that it will cause a recession in the EU and the UK.

The instruction is a bit suggestive, there was no need for it.


VAT is just one of the taxes that could be modified/disgarded if we were not in the €U.

The list of things that could be accomplished if we made our own decisions are endless.

ie: We wouldn't have to ask the €U if we can please save our steel industry (climate change bullshit) We could just go ahead and do it.